Table cells

[Neredbojias]

You miss the point. Both of you. Time did not "begin" at the big bang.
It started to exist, from our point of view. Loose and sloopy I know
but, lets proceed and hopefully clarify a bit...

The big bang did not "start", so to say that time did not exist until
after "the start of the big bang" is erroneous. The big bang simply
is. It is a boundary condition, from our point of view. On our side of
that boundary time exists. On the other side, well, ?

Mr Hawking opines that the big bang is, indeed, a singularity in our
concept of space/time. As such one can not state anything at all about
conditions "on the other side" of that singularity. On this side we
have time and space as we think we know it. On the other side we
cannot even conjecture but there is/was/will be probably no such thing
as time and/or space. For us "the other side" does not exist (from our
point of view) as it is not accessable to us, but we can be sure that
different rules apply. There is probably no HTML.

The jury is still out on the "big crunch" at the other end of our
concept of time. Depends on how much dark matter there is laying
about, which is still under dispute AFAIK.

You are right, but therein lies my dilemma. I find it unsettling to have
something about which I cannot even conjecture. So, the "other side of
the boundary" is nothing yet it is not nothing. 1 = 0 again, hah! Er, I
thought science was supposed to be precise?

The Church was right: science is heresy.

Not really. A knowledge of higher mathematics makes it quite easy to
understand. One cannot poke a stick at it, nor explain it clearly to
the layman, but one can debate it ad nauseum, in the arena of the
mathematics.

The fact that many people find mathmatics nauseating is hardly debatable
at all.

--
Neredbojias

Once I had a little dog
Who wagged its tail spritely.
But it walked by the harvestor
And now is shorter slightly.

 

[rf]

You are right, but therein lies my dilemma. I find it unsettling to have
something about which I cannot even conjecture. So, the "other side of
the boundary" is nothing yet it is not nothing. 1 = 0 again, hah! Er, I
thought science was supposed to be precise?

Obviously not concept of science.

The Church was right: science is heresy.

Bloody obviously.

 

[dorayme]

I see rf, you can be loose and sloppy but I can't be eh! You
replied to my typo (which I corrected a few minutes later). What
is "the" point that I miss? Here is a feller (called Boji)
telling me about before the BB by talking about "prior" and
saying stuff. I am telling him there is no prior about it and you
come in and tell me I am missing some point? What is it that you
object to? That I said time "began" with the BB? It is not okay
for me to say this but it okay for you to say it "started to
exist, from our point of view"? (Even though we were nowhere near
around then? Perhaps you owe me the courtesy of exactness if you
are going to sort me out.)

Did you see the word "wrong" in my sentence? If the head is full
of mathematics and physics, it would not be the _wrong_ head. Is
that not right, young man? I am pleased to see the respect you
have for maths as a window on the world. However, I hope you do
not overestimate it as a tool and underestimate logic and
language? [1]

You are mistaken to think I am addressing the science community
at large. I was saying it to Boji. What do you think this forum
is, some sort of free for all discussion about html/css where
anyone can come in and interfere in my 19th Century style
education of this irreverent foreigner by the name of Boji?

[1] Here is something that can be solved using either mathematics
or just logic really.

http://tinyurl.com/2qzgqz

 

[Ben C]

My God, I only had one glass of wine with dinner tonight!

This mistake of yours does not even have a Latin name. I will
have to adapt a phrase of my papa: it is a confusion of the first
waters.

If time begins at the start of the BB, there is no prior about
it. Please stop thinking about these things, it can cause brain
damage in the wrong head.

I know this thread has been marked "Do Not Resuscitate", but I just came
across this:

http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/11/6/20/1

I don't know which makes my head hurt more: loop quantum gravity or that
9pt font size.

 

[dorayme]

I know this thread has been marked "Do Not Resuscitate", but I just came
across this:

http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/11/6/20/1

I don't know which makes my head hurt more: loop quantum gravity or that
9pt font size.

I hope it was the point size. One must take a calm attitude
towards the "partially baked cake" (quote from your url) of
science reporting.

Time is a very tricky customer. These days, it should be clear
enough that it is not what it seems (a flowing river of something
very thin and important). In this shaky state of affairs,
headaches are easily to be had.

 

[dorayme]

[1] Here is something that can be solved using either mathematics
or just logic really.

http://tinyurl.com/2qzgqz

I became nervous when I looked at my solution last night (there
is a url to it). I stand by it, but wish to forewarn whoever
eventually holds me to account on this one that my reasoning is
not a strict proof. But it is not all that flakey or incorrect as
far as it goes. It also provides me with a reductio ad absurdum
of many other attempts. Simply because it certainly succeeds in
concluding with a provably sensible figure (if not an optimum
one?) and if any other attempt produces a larger figure, the
smaller one that results from my reasoning can clearly prove that
the argument to the larger figure must be faulty (without saying
what is wrong).

 

[Neredbojias]

[1] Here is something that can be solved using either mathematics
or just logic really.

http://tinyurl.com/2qzgqz

I became nervous when I looked at my solution last night (there
is a url to it). I stand by it, but wish to forewarn whoever
eventually holds me to account on this one that my reasoning is
not a strict proof. But it is not all that flakey or incorrect as
far as it goes. It also provides me with a reductio ad absurdum
of many other attempts. Simply because it certainly succeeds in
concluding with a provably sensible figure (if not an optimum
one?) and if any other attempt produces a larger figure, the
smaller one that results from my reasoning can clearly prove that
the argument to the larger figure must be faulty (without saying
what is wrong).

So what is the number in your solution?

 

[dorayme]

So what is the number in your solution?

You have to be kidding! Do you really suppose I would simply
blurt out what it took me ages to work out. I sweated on this one
You need to show some effort and some sort of non-hand-waving
figure before I would provide a url to my effort, and you would
need to email me with your thoughts (Why spoil things here.
Remember, this is an html/css group. Please realise this.)

 

[Neredbojias]

You have to be kidding! Do you really suppose I would simply
blurt out what it took me ages to work out. I sweated on this one
You need to show some effort and some sort of non-hand-waving
figure before I would provide a url to my effort, and you would
need to email me with your thoughts (Why spoil things here.
Remember, this is an html/css group. Please realise this.)

This is like one of them "How can I stop people from stealing my code?"
posts. How about a hint?

 

[mbstevens]

This is like one of them "How can I stop people from stealing my code?"
posts. How about a hint?

v : value to the world of some site's code
d : amount of desire to keep that code secret

Generally in this forum:

1
v = ------
d

 

[Neredbojias]

v : value to the world of some site's code
d : amount of desire to keep that code secret

Generally in this forum:

1
v = ------
d

Yes. The detriment of the ol' vd algorithm is familiar to many.

 

[dorayme]

This is like one of them "How can I stop people from stealing my code?"
posts. How about a hint?

It is nothing like that at all. You have shown not the slightest
hint of effort.

By the way, last night, I thought of a good way of plugging one
gap that was worrying me recently in my own "proof" of an optimal
solution.

 

[Neredbojias]

It is nothing like that at all. You have shown not the slightest
hint of effort.

By the way, last night, I thought of a good way of plugging one
gap that was worrying me recently in my own "proof" of an optimal
solution.

I have a number, but if I don't know your number, how do I know mine's any
good?

--
Neredbojias

Scratched on wall of Tuscaloosa lockup #3:

The woman was
A real looker.
Too bad she war'nt
A real hooker.

 

[dorayme]

I have a number, but if I don't know your number, how do I know mine's any
good?

Oh, I see, you just have a whole lot of numbers on a shelf at
your place and you thought you would bring one of them down and
put it on the desk next to the url of the problem on the screen.
On this bare number sitting on your desk is no label that says
"Good one" or "Not a bad one" or anything at all to guide you?
And then suddenly a wondering kind of thought popped into your
head and you thought you would share this with me?

 

[Neredbojias]

Oh, I see, you just have a whole lot of numbers on a shelf at
your place and you thought you would bring one of them down and
put it on the desk next to the url of the problem on the screen.
On this bare number sitting on your desk is no label that says
"Good one" or "Not a bad one" or anything at all to guide you?
And then suddenly a wondering kind of thought popped into your
head and you thought you would share this with me?

Oh, jeez...

I worked on the problem. My solution probably isn't optimal because I was
just trying to create an initial solution to begin with. However, it
doesn't look bad, at least to me, but I have no references to know if it is
any good or not.

Tell you what - never mind. I don't care anymore.

--
Neredbojias

Scratched on wall of Tuscaloosa lockup #3:

The woman was
A real looker.
Too bad she war'nt
A real hooker.

 

[dorayme]

Tell you what - never mind. I don't care anymore.

You mean, you lose interest because you are not given the
solution to the problem before you offer anything? Don't you have
that thing in you to search for alternative solutions and compare
them and to get a sense of the heart of the issue(s)? Having a
figure that you are confident about is an important part of the
solution.