target="_blank"

[Jose]

What do you folks think of the target="_blank" attribute?

On the one hand, people should have the choice as to whether or not to
open a new window, and this defeats that choice (usually invisibly). A
new window can disorient people, defeat the back button, and use
(perhaps scarce) system resources. OTOH many (probably most) people
don't know how to open a link in a new window when they want to, and
it's a real pain to have to go "back back back" (waiting for each "back"
site to load) in order to get back to where you were.

On my site I have used it (I believe) judiciously, mainly opening new
windows into "foreign" sites and using the default (use the same window)
for most in-site links. On a site I used to work on, I gave a little
lesson on "trick clicking" at the top of the page, and left all links as
default.

Thoughts?

Jose

 

[Adrienne Boswell]

What do you folks think of the target="_blank" attribute?

On the one hand, people should have the choice as to whether or not to
open a new window, and this defeats that choice (usually invisibly). A
new window can disorient people, defeat the back button, and use
(perhaps scarce) system resources. OTOH many (probably most) people
don't know how to open a link in a new window when they want to, and
it's a real pain to have to go "back back back" (waiting for each "back"
site to load) in order to get back to where you were.

On my site I have used it (I believe) judiciously, mainly opening new
windows into "foreign" sites and using the default (use the same window)
for most in-site links. On a site I used to work on, I gave a little
lesson on "trick clicking" at the top of the page, and left all links as
default.

Thoughts?

Jose

Links opening in new windows, whether they are on the same site, or going
to another can be confusing for the user. Everyone knows how to use the
back button, but knowing which window is what can get hairy, especially for
users with older systems with little memory and no tabbed browsing.

Additionally, if you look at the HTML 4.01 specs, the Strict DTD does not
include the TARGET attribute at all, it is for the Frame DTD.

 

[Curtis]

What do you folks think of the target="_blank" attribute?

On the one hand, people should have the choice as to whether or not to
open a new window, and this defeats that choice (usually invisibly). A
new window can disorient people, defeat the back button, and use
(perhaps scarce) system resources. OTOH many (probably most) people
don't know how to open a link in a new window when they want to, and
it's a real pain to have to go "back back back" (waiting for each "back"
site to load) in order to get back to where you were.

On my site I have used it (I believe) judiciously, mainly opening new
windows into "foreign" sites and using the default (use the same window)
for most in-site links. On a site I used to work on, I gave a little
lesson on "trick clicking" at the top of the page, and left all links as
default.

Thoughts?

Jose

I may not be typical, but if someone held a gun to my head
and demanded a single choice, I'd opt for new windows.

When I'm doing research online, I usually have 6 or 8
browser instances open, and I'm often dragging links onto
page B and C so I can keep A open. 56K modems reload back
pages pretty slowly sometimes, and I think it's those
increasingly lengthy reloads which have motivated this
practice.

That said, on our websites we use some discretion.
Discussing an article opens a new window, so the article and
the forum each have their own page. Going from one article
to another, though, we usually just keep things on the same
page.

I haven't thought about it much, but if I had to make rules,
they might be that 1) on pages that have a lot of links, 2)
pages whose content encourages comparison, and 3) articles
whose continuity would be broken by following a link might
all do well to open new windows.

--

Curtis

Visit We the Thinking
www.wethethinking.com
An online magazine/forum
devoted to philosophical
thought.

 

[Rob McAninch]

Adrienne Boswell>:

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Jose <[email protected]>
writing in news:[email protected]:

I can't think of a good use for it. And you hit on a number of valid
reasons to not use it.

Indeed. My prime reason for not liking it. I like tabbed browsers
and may have 10 tabs at the same time so I get very annoyed when a
site opens a new window with _blank.

Sometimes a new small window with JavaScript make sense, if
JavaScript isn't supported then I prefer to just go to a new page in
the existing window.


This is how many people are accustomed to navigating though. I
taught a couple friends how to use the little down arrow beside the
back button (which is present on the mainstream browsers I've seen)
to go back multiple steps.

On my site I have used it (I believe) judiciously, mainly opening new
windows into "foreign" sites [...]

You might consider using a traditional link, and then include some
text like "[new window]" or similar using the _blank attribute. This
gives the user an extra option. I would probably only use this if I
were referring to a site as an example where the visitor would most
likely want to come right back or compare the two sites side by side.

Additionally, if you look at the HTML 4.01 specs, the Strict DTD does not
include the TARGET attribute at all, it is for the Frame DTD.

Or the Transitional DTD.

 

[dorayme]

I may not be typical, but if someone held a gun to my head
and demanded a single choice, I'd opt for new windows.

Have not followed this thread (new newsreader makes things
disappear!) but perhaps you do not know that tabbed browsing is
becoming quite popular. I find it essential for dial-up. I
generally don't like it when I am blanked by default. If a gun is
pointed at you, choose the other way. Please.

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

Curtis wrote:

When I'm doing research online, I usually have 6 or 8
browser instances open, and I'm often dragging links onto
page B and C so I can keep A open. 56K modems reload back
pages pretty slowly sometimes, and I think it's those
increasingly lengthy reloads which have motivated this
practice.

This is where tab browsing shines! Dump the IE and download Firefox.

Use separate browser windows for separate inquiries, but pursue links
associated with the search within the same window and in separate tabs!
Much easier to keep thing organized.

Example two searches for 'widgets' and 'doohickies'. In one window
Google 'widgets' and the other 'doohickies'.

As Google lists links for 'widgets' open a few in tabs for that window,
while loading you can do the same for the 'doohickies' search in the
other window.

By using tabs, the original search listings are preserved in the 1st tab
of each window for each line of inquiry. Regardless of how deep you
pursue a link in one of the associated tabs you can quickly find your
way back to the original listing by switch to the top tab without the
back button list, reloading, or hunting for the original listing window
taskbar among all the others. The taskbar will only have 2 windows
listed, one for each inquiry 'widgets' & 'doohickies' even if you had 10
tabs 'working' for each as opposed 20 if all were in separate browser
instances...

<snip>

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard_Talbot?=]

Jose wrote :

What do you folks think of the target="_blank" attribute?

On the one hand, people should have the choice as to whether or not to
open a new window, and this defeats that choice (usually invisibly). A
new window can disorient people, defeat the back button, and use
(perhaps scarce) system resources. OTOH many (probably most) people
don't know how to open a link in a new window when they want to, and
it's a real pain to have to go "back back back" (waiting for each "back"
site to load) in order to get back to where you were.

On my site I have used it (I believe) judiciously, mainly opening new
windows into "foreign" sites and using the default (use the same window)
for most in-site links. On a site I used to work on, I gave a little
lesson on "trick clicking" at the top of the page, and left all links as
default.

Thoughts?

Jose

DOM:window.open
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/DOM:window.open#Always_use_the_target_attribute
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/DOM:window.open#Do_not_use_target.3D.22_blank.22

Gérard

 

[Neredbojias]

With neither quill nor qualm, Jose quothed:

What do you folks think of the target="_blank" attribute?

It's all right for a joke or 2 but most girls wouldn't date it.

 

[Jose]

What do you folks think of the target="_blank" attribute?

It's all right for a joke or 2 but most girls wouldn't date it.

Huh? I assume a funny, but I don't get it.

Jose

 

[Jose]

Thanks to all for responding. I will go back to the old way of simple
links, and a note about "trick clicking" on the web pages involved.

Jose

 

[Vhit]

<alt.html , Jose , (e-mail address removed)>
<[email protected]>

What do you folks think of the target="_blank" attribute?

On the one hand, people should have the choice as to whether or not to
open a new window, and this defeats that choice (usually invisibly). A
new window can disorient people, defeat the back button, and use
(perhaps scarce) system resources. OTOH many (probably most) people
don't know how to open a link in a new window when they want to, and
it's a real pain to have to go "back back back" (waiting for each "back"
site to load) in order to get back to where you were.

On my site I have used it (I believe) judiciously, mainly opening new
windows into "foreign" sites and using the default (use the same window)
for most in-site links. On a site I used to work on, I gave a little
lesson on "trick clicking" at the top of the page, and left all links as
default.

Thoughts?

I give users the choice to open in the current window or a new window .

Having tried various types of ways of doing it - but i've to find one
that really works in terms of looking good and being clear in what it
does without being intrusive or in your face .

Its not a easy problem to solve .

 

[Alan J. Flavell]

I give users the choice to open in the current window or a new window .

We already have that choice, implemented in the browser (if it's a
browser where the concept of "window" means anything) when you do
*nothing*. Any additional action you might take is going to be
something different from what other pages do. Readers' life is too
short to have to learn a different navigation technique for every web
site or group of pages.

Having tried various types of ways of doing it - but i've to find one
that really works in terms of looking good and being clear in what it
does without being intrusive or in your face .

Its not a easy problem to solve .

It's easy. And cheap. Do nothing.

The HTML author's job is to offer marked-up content, optionally with
some rendering proposals. Attempting to control the user's browser or
user interface, particularly where you're trying to duplicate
functionality which is typically implemented in the browser itself, is
always problematical, and generally best avoided.[1]

IMHO and whatever.

[1] forms processing is somewhat of an exception, since you can't
really avoid having a user interface within the page.

 

[Jake]

What do you folks think of the target="_blank" attribute?

It's fine -- other than the fact that you can't use it and still
validate your HTML as 'STRICT'.

Still, that may not be an issue for you. If it is, then you'll need to
use javascript to provide the functionality.

On the one hand, people should have the choice as to whether or not to
open a new window, and this defeats that choice (usually invisibly). A
new window can disorient people, defeat the back button, and use
(perhaps scarce) system resources.

Sure. It's a major problem for people with less than 15 minutes exposure
to the Web.

If it really was an issue, then browser manufacturers would provide a
setting to override the spawning of a new window -- forcing the target
to be the existing window.

OTOH many (probably most) people don't know how to open a link in a new
window when they want to, and it's a real pain to have to go "back back
back" (waiting for each "back" site to load) in order to get back to
where you were.
Possibly.

On my site I have used it (I believe) judiciously, mainly opening new
windows into "foreign" sites and using the default (use the same
window) for most in-site links.

Fine. That's what I'd do; seems to be quite a common practice.

(It often annoys me when I take a link to another site only to find that
the page's author has been too lazy to open a new window for me.)

On a site I used to work on, I gave a little lesson on "trick
clicking" at the top of the page, and left all links as default.

Thoughts?

Just warn your users that links to eternal sites open in a new browser
window.

I notice that a number of authors are now starting to append an icon to
a link that opens in a new window, with both 'alt' and 'title' text on

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Sure. It's a major problem for people with less than 15 minutes exposure
to the Web.

Correct. And for the great majority of other people, too. You seem to imply
otherwise, though, thereby exposing your rather deep ignorance of the issue.

If it really was an issue, then browser manufacturers would provide a
setting to override the spawning of a new window -- forcing the target
to be the existing window.

They do. Didn't you know this? Well, neither do many other people. And that's
really part of the problem.

Fine.

Not fine. It's a symptom of the disease of trying to "keep the user on my
site", thereby quite often _making_ the user leave the site, rather than
preventing that.

Just warn your users that links to eternal sites open in a new browser
window.

That would break the fundamental rule "never bother the user with
technicalities". Besides, all communication fails, except by accident,
so many people will waste their time reading the warnings, yet failing to
understand what they try to say. And when your page is printed, the warning
will look rather stupid, won't it?

I notice that a number of authors are now starting to append an icon to
a link that opens in a new window, with both 'alt' and 'title' text on
the <img> informing the user of the fact.

That's a further distraction, requiring users to get familiar with such
idiosyncratic symbolism. (Authors naturally apply the NIH principle, using
each their own "icons" for the purpose.)

 

[Jake]

Correct. And for the great majority of other people, too. You seem to imply
otherwise, though, thereby exposing your rather deep ignorance of the issue.


They do. Didn't you know this? Well, neither do many other people. And that's
really part of the problem.


Not fine. It's a symptom of the disease of trying to "keep the user on my
site", thereby quite often _making_ the user leave the site, rather than
preventing that.


That would break the fundamental rule "never bother the user with
technicalities". Besides, all communication fails, except by accident,
so many people will waste their time reading the warnings, yet failing to
understand what they try to say. And when your page is printed, the warning
will look rather stupid, won't it?


That's a further distraction, requiring users to get familiar with such
idiosyncratic symbolism. (Authors naturally apply the NIH principle, using
each their own "icons" for the purpose.)

I'd like to help you out here ... but life's just too short .... ;-)

regards.

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

[ fullquote, followed by... ]

I'd like to help you out here ... but life's just too short .... ;-)

regards.

That reminds me... could you kindly keep using the same forged From field,
until you have a clue? It would help people to filter out junk. Thank you in
advance.

 

[Stan McCann]

I give users the choice to open in the current window or a new
window .

Having tried various types of ways of doing it - but i've to find
one that really works in terms of looking good and being clear in
what it does without being intrusive or in your face .

Its not a easy problem to solve .

It' very easy to solve. Don't open windows for users. If users want
to open in new windows, they will learn how if they don't already know.

 

[Jose]

It' very easy to solve. Don't open windows for users. If users want

to open in new windows, they will learn how if they don't already know.

Suppose I want to tell users how to "trick click" if they want to open a
new window. I have many pages where this would be useful, and I suppose
I could (at the head of each) say something like "Trick click to open in
a new window", where "trick click" is a link that gives instructions.

Is there a good way, without unloading the existing page, to give these
instructions (a paragraph of text)?

Jose

 

[Stan McCann]

Suppose I want to tell users how to "trick click" if they want to
open a new window. I have many pages where this would be useful,
and I suppose I could (at the head of each) say something like
"Trick click to open in a new window", where "trick click" is a link
that gives instructions.

Is there a good way, without unloading the existing page, to give
these instructions (a paragraph of text)?

How many pages are you going to have that on? If one, no big deal in
the extra text required; if more, you surely aren't getting your
message across. If you need to give that simple of instruction many
times, I'd rethink either the instruction or the learning ability of
those I'm instructing.

 

[Jake]

[ fullquote, followed by... ]

I'd like to help you out here ... but life's just too short .... ;-)

regards.

That reminds me... could you kindly keep using the same forged From field,
until you have a clue? It would help people to filter out junk. Thank you in
advance.

If you're having trouble with your reader, I'm sure there's a few kind
people here who will be able to help you.

Regards.