The Original Topicality Proposal

[luserXtrog]

I reproduce here the very first archived message
for the entity now known as comp.lang.c. Its suggestion
appears quite broad, particularly the "etc" part.

Perhaps it will calm the frustrations and ease the
distractions that deter interesting, pertinent discussion.

One can but hope (and reserve the right to gripe later).

The question (as always) is: "what to you think about this?"

-- luserXchocula


Message-ID: <bnews.eagle.565>
Newsgroups: net.news.group,net.lang.c
Path: utzoo!decvax!duke!harpo!eagle!jerry
X-Path: utzoo!decvax!duke!harpo!eagle!jerry
From: eagle!jerry
Date: Fri Oct 22 01:28:04 1982
Subject: C language newsgroup started
Posted: Thu Oct 21 11:32:31 1982
Received: Fri Oct 22 01:28:04 1982


My suggestion for a "C" newsgroup met with support and no
opposition so net.lang.c (note lower case) has been created.

It's purpose is to carry on discussion of C programming and
the C programming language. Appropriate topics are

Queries on how to write something in C
Queries about why some C code behaves the way it does
Suggestions for C modifications or extensions
C coding "tricks"
Compiler bugs
Availability of compilers
etc.

Jerry Schwarz
BTL -- Murray Hill
harpo!eagle!jerry

 

[Guest]

I reproduce here the very first archived message
for the entity now known as comp.lang.c. Its suggestion
appears quite broad, particularly the "etc" part.

Perhaps it will calm the frustrations and ease the
distractions that deter interesting, pertinent discussion.

One can but hope (and reserve the right to gripe later).

The question (as always) is: "what to you think about this?"

my question is "what caused you to post this?".
I hope it wasn't to appease trolls.

<snip>

 

[luserXtrog]

Maybe it was to remind self important and self appointed group "leaders"
just why this group is here.

More of this than the other. In the dearth of current material,
I was force to begin trawling the archive for my C "fix".
The message seemed pertinent to our current situation.

Rather like the issue of terrorism, one cannot force the
disruptive element to desist, and one cannot simply capitulate
to unreasonable demands (both options only encourage unrest);
but one can attempt to understand the issue in a broader context,
consider the motivations of the dispossessed, and address the
heart of the matter.

When the mud has settled, the resulting clarity is indisputable
(except by trolls, of course).

 

[Chris M. Thomasson]

What makes you think a topicality /suggestion/ from 37 years ago is still
relevant?


When that note was written, there was no standard C, limited availability,
far fewer extensions, no "internet" as we know it today and usenet was a
thousandth of the size.


Its like producing Henry Ford's proposal for a motor car and suggesting
that it should form mandate current car design.

Ford? Well, that's a fine company... However, never forget the Tucker!

 

[luserXtrog]

In other words, to troll.

/Your/ words.
Quoth the Gump: [...] is as [...] does.

whats wrong with the regular "welcome message"

Isn't that shit supposed to be automatically posted?
It'd be a tad more useful than the weekly scorecard.
So let me get this straight, you object not to the motive
of injecting sanity, nor to the use of putatively
"authoritative" material, but to my selection of authority?

Only if you want to reignite flame wars.  Please don't do that, you
merely play into the hands of those who would disrupt the group.

And into whose hands do you play?

 

[luserXtrog]

What makes you think a topicality /suggestion/ from 37 years ago is
still relevant?

The words that it contains. The excitement in its tone.
The sense of freedom and community that it inspires.
And it is the only "official" message of its kind.

When that note was written, there was no standard C, limited
availability, far fewer extensions, no "internet" as we know it today
and usenet was a thousandth of the size.

How is this critique part of the solution? These are distinctions
without differences. The issue is: where is the balance and how
is it to be attained?!

"There is a time for truth."
-Dr. Zaius
"And it is always now!"
-Dr. Zira
From Beneath the Planet of the Apes

 > The question (as always) is: "what to you think about this?"

Its like producing Henry Ford's proposal for a motor car and suggesting
that it should form mandate current car design.

Nowhere did I suggest anything mandatory.
Although it would rock if new cars looked like '39 Packards.

 

[Antoninus Twink]

I tried this, with the aim of opening up topicality just a little.
The support simply wasn't there. Most of those who express an
opinion like the topic the way it is - i.e. ISO C (any variant),
and K&R C (mostly for historical reasons).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-selection

I had two choices at this point - stuff the majority view and treat
the topic as I like, or respect the majority view and stick to the
topicality conventions. I chose the latter.

Bullshit.

You gave yourself the chance to boast forever and a day how liberal you
are on "topicality", and how you're just going along with this mythical
"majority view", all the while knowing full well that your /real/
fundamentalist topicality opinions would be endorsed by your lackeys and
lickspittles in the clc Clique.

 

[Rafael]

Mark McIntyre escreveu:

What makes you think a topicality /suggestion/ from 37 years ago is
still relevant?


When that note was written, there was no standard C, limited
availability, far fewer extensions, no "internet" as we know it today
and usenet was a thousandth of the size.

And there was no java, c#, or whatever other language, then. Why are you
still with C?

The note is as generic as possible. That's how c.l.c should be. Be ANSI
specific in the root language newsgroup make any sense?

Make a group called comp.lang.c.ansi if you don't to see people talking
about c in any way (*YES!!!!* You don't have to answer or even read
*ANY* threads you don't like.).

If the subject have anything with c, let's work on it. If it is best to
the OP's to cross-post to other groups, lets do it. That's a knowledge
network, and nobody can rule.

Rafael

 

[Franken Sense]

In Dread Ink, the Grave Hand of Richard Heathfield Did Inscribe:

luserXtrog said:


Yes. In the days when the number of newsgroups could be counted on
your fingers, each one had to cover a broad area. As newsgroups
multiplied, topic space shrank. There are now over seventy thousand
newsgroups (and that figure is almost certainly out of date by
now).

Those thousands of groups are a desert whose twin commodities are porn and
spam, which, in usenet terms, have no nutritional value. Hormel is a
wonderfully-behaved Minnesota company that has its product dirtied by this
association. Instead, I would call spam "american cheese."

I observe no such Malthusian assessment of "topic space." I think it's a
bunch of islands that are hard to pick out unless you know what you're
looking for.

I had tremendous fun in the german language groups, which are better than
ours by many criteria.
--
Frank

The irony upon irony of this lawsuit was great. First, Fox having the
trademark 'fair and balanced' -- a network which is anything but fair and
balanced. Then there's the irony of a news organization trying to suppress
free speech.
~~ Al Franken, CNN interview

 

[Richard Bos]

If the subject have anything with c, let's work on it.

Fine.

I want you - yes, _you_, Rafael - to tell me how to create diamonds from
charcoal using kitchen utensils.

Richard

 

[Keith Thompson]

I observe no such Malthusian assessment of "topic space." I think it's a
bunch of islands that are hard to pick out unless you know what you're
looking for.

[...]

Then the solution is to know what you're looking for. It's not that
hard, and we tend to be pretty good about directing posters to more
appropriate forums.

 

[Rafael]

Richard Bos escreveu:

Fine.

I want you - yes, _you_, Rafael - to tell me how to create diamonds from
charcoal using kitchen utensils.

Richard

Call me off-topic now, If that make your day.

Step
1
Place the charcoal briquets and the peanut butter in a glass pan. The
charcoal should be completely covered with peanut butter. Do not spread
the peanut butter around the pan, but rather leave it in a lump only
covering the charcoal.

Step
2
Microwave the pan and its contents for ten minutes at a time. After each
interval, give your microwave a one minute break. If you notice sparks
leaping in the microwave, turn off the microwave. Repeat the process a
total of six times, assuming you do not see sparks or any other
potentially hazardous activity.

Step
3
Remove the dish from the microwave at the end of the sixth interval. Use
the oven mitts to handle it, as it may be quite hot. Place the dish on
an outdoor grill.

Step
4
Cover the contents of the dish with lighter fluid and set it on fire.
(This is to burn off excess ash.) Allow the contents to burn until the
flames go out on their own.

Step
5
Let the contents cool, then use a spatula or spoon to scrape them onto a
dark colored dish. At this point, you will have a gray, ashy mass in the
dish.

Step
6
Wash the gray stuff off the dish. Keep an eye out for your diamonds. If
the process worked, you should have two diamonds--one for each lump of
charcoal--in the middle of the burned charcoal and gray goop. Remember,
the diamonds will not be cut and shiny but rough, cloudy lumps.

 

[Rafael]

Mark McIntyre escreveu:

Because I like it.


Assuming you mean ISO - yes, since the language is defined by ISO.

You're right.

But here's the thing: if you allow discussion of /anything/ c-like, you
have to allow embedded pl/sql, DOS graphics, inline 8800 assembler, OS/9
resource forks, linux kernel programming, etc etc. And then what you
have is a general programming group. Oh, look, there's comp.programming.

Meanwhile you have diluted your pool of experts. Instead of a reasonably
large number of accredited experts in a well defined field, you have a
huge swathe of respondents posting on topics they know little about,
many of whom will offer incorrect but uncheckable advice. Don't believe
me? Check out some of the other programming groups which gave up their
topicality rules.


Very web 2.0 I'm sure, but if nobody rules, you have anarchy.

Can you *share*?

 

[Default User]

Richard Bos escreveu:

Call me off-topic now, If that make your day.

Step
1

Mythbusters "busted" that one.




Brian

 

[Richard Bos]

I had tremendous fun in the german language groups, which are better than
ours by many criteria.

The most important one being, I suppose, that most Germans have no sense
of humour, and therefore take you seriously.

Richard

 

[Richard Bos]

Richard Bos escreveu:

Call me off-topic now, If that make your day.

Step
1
Place the charcoal briquets and the peanut butter in a glass pan.

I'm sorry, but this recipe has been thoroughly debunked by Mythbusters.
It's also immediately obvious that it's humbug by anyone with the
slightest scientific education.

You'll have to do better than that.

Richard

 

[Default User]

I'm sorry, but this recipe has been thoroughly debunked by
Mythbusters. It's also immediately obvious that it's humbug by
anyone with the slightest scientific education.

You'll have to do better than that.

I liked the solution that involved high explosives.



Brian

 

[Keith Thompson]

If CLC degnerates into a general discussion forum for all programming
loosely connected with C, then in my opinion it will become largely
useless. It'll be the programming equivalent of the European
Parliament - too many people babbling in too many languages about a
thousand things most of which most of them neitehr know nor care about.

Right, because controversial statements about European politics are
just the thing to encourage disputes like this to be settled amicably.

 

[Richard Bos]

Share what? Body fluids? Secrets?

Usenet is the nearest thing you can get to a true democracy.

Nope. It's an anarchism, with all the small-scale advantages that that
implies, and also all the all-scale disadvantages.

Its spiky-stabby-big-boaty Athenian democracy

Oh, you mean the kind where only those with the right parents get to
vote, and someone can be completely banished from the town for ten
years, on pain of death? I don't think so, really.

Richard

 

[Richard Bos]

I liked the solution that involved high explosives.

So did I, but I don't have high explosives in my kitchen. Unless you
count the sambal.

Richard