Topicality - Are we missing the point?

[Kenny McCormack]

And what happens when a new person begins an off-topic thread? Wait
some period of time until the regular message pops up again?

I think the operative expression here is: Get a life.

Realize that the sun will still rise and set, and stars will continue to
shine even if an occasional off-topic posting goes unanswered in CLC>

I honestly don't think you have any grasp of the above truth.

 

[Kenny McCormack]

This solved by server retention. When a new person enters the
newsgroup, he can find that regular message on the server, if the
retention time is long enough, relative to the posting frequency.

A new person person entering the newsgroup isn't just supposed to start
posting, without so much as downloading a few hundred headers to glance
through the subject lines for any FAQ pointers and such.

You really have to understand the terror and fear felt by this group of
topicality nannies when an "off topic" post is left unanswered for more
than a few minutes. It is a deep set terror and fear that the world as
they know it will simply cease to be if this should happen. It simply
cannot be risked.

I know you think I'm kidding. But I'm not.

 

[Default User]

Right, so they go a little bit against netiquette. But what is the
usual solution: countering netiquette with more bad netiquette.

I disagree that messages pointing out that their posts are not in
accordance with the usual newsgroup topicality are "bad netiquette".
Now, endless arguments with trolls would probably come in there
somewhere.

Discussion amongst people of good intent regarding the proper way to
handle things should be fine, I would think. Which is why I engaged in
this discussion.

You don't have to lurk to glance through messages posted over the
past few weeks of a newsgroup you've never been to. (Unless, of
course, that newsgroup wasn't previously carried by your server and
you had to request it).

Lurk, read two weeks back, whatever. People don't, so what good is a
periodic message? And, again, what should be done? They've committed
the sin of not reading old messages, and don't know the topicality.
What then? Ignore them? Hope they'll get the message.

What about when the Twinks, Hans, and Kennys of the group respond with
off-topic replies? Cross your fingers and hope the weekly message,
whenever it next shows up, will make them realize that they've doing it
wrong for days?



Brian

 

[Antoninus Twink]

So, again, what happens when people post off-topic?

Again, try answering their questions.

Go on, just try it once or twice, and you'll quickly see how rewarding
it is. Don't be a loser all your life.

 

[CBFalconer]

.... snip ...

A new person person entering the newsgroup isn't just supposed
to start posting, without so much as downloading a few hundred
headers to glance through the subject lines for any FAQ pointers
and such.

Sure. Now face reality. How many newbies have diligently read all
the postings about net-practices before making their first post?

 

[Richard Bos]

A new person person entering the newsgroup isn't just supposed to start
posting, without so much as downloading a few hundred headers to glance through
the subject lines for any FAQ pointers and such.

Fine. Will _you_ go to Google GHQ and kill everybody in the Groups
department? And then re-educate everybody who ever "learned" about how
to behave on Usenet from them?

Richard

 

[Richard]

This solved by server retention. When a new person enters the newsgroup, he can
find that regular message on the server, if the retention time is long enough,
relative to the posting frequency.

A new person person entering the newsgroup isn't just supposed to start
posting, without so much as downloading a few hundred headers to glance through
the subject lines for any FAQ pointers and such.

Don't be such an precious big head.

People come here to ask questions about things they have issues
with. Everything is already in Google, so by your edicts this group
should close.

 

[Andrew Smallshaw]

And what happens when a new person begins an off-topic thread? Wait
some period of time until the regular message pops up again?

Yes, why not? I think anyone posting to news knows that they have
to monitor the groups for a few days afterwards to receive any
replies. If that reply comes a few days later covered by the
'catch-all' off-topic reminder then what of it. They have been
told why the message is off topic and wis not best dealt with here.

Of course, if that isn't good enough, the net police can always
email the user and point out to him that the articel is off-topic
- they could even use the same text as the standard recurring post.
That at least would not distract everyone else reading the group.
Even better, since the various memebers of the police can't see
each other's emails the user gets told the same point over and over
to drive the point home.

No mechanism is going to be 100% perfect - the aim should surely
be to minimise disruption rather than complaining that such solutions
are not 100% effective so we shouldn't even bother. The status
quo is hardly a better solution. There isn't really _anything_
you can do about people who do not refer to charters or at least
a few previous messages before posting short of moderation, which
I don't think is particuarly justified here.

 

[Richard]

Yes, why not? I think anyone posting to news knows that they have
to monitor the groups for a few days afterwards to receive any
replies. If that reply comes a few days later covered by the
'catch-all' off-topic reminder then what of it. They have been
told why the message is off topic and wis not best dealt with here.

Of course, if that isn't good enough, the net police can always
email the user and point out to him that the articel is off-topic
- they could even use the same text as the standard recurring post.
That at least would not distract everyone else reading the group.
Even better, since the various memebers of the police can't see
each other's emails the user gets told the same point over and over
to drive the point home.

No mechanism is going to be 100% perfect - the aim should surely
be to minimise disruption rather than complaining that such solutions
are not 100% effective so we shouldn't even bother. The status
quo is hardly a better solution. There isn't really _anything_
you can do about people who do not refer to charters or at least
a few previous messages before posting short of moderation, which
I don't think is particuarly justified here.

The original founding charter stated this group was for all c related
issues. Not just ISO C. So that puts the kaybosh on yet more of Default
Lusers whining.

 

[Rafael]

Rafael escreveu:

Hello List

Since I think the most disrupting thing on c.l.c is the *HUGE* noise
about on-off topic questions, I was wondering - if there is a group
about topicality, will be topicality off-topic here (and anywhere else)?



Rafael

Sad it works.

 

[Mark Wooding]

Fine. Will _you_ go to Google GHQ and kill everybody in the Groups
department? And then re-educate everybody who ever "learned" about how
to behave on Usenet from them?

If he does, I'll provide an alibi.

-- [mdw]

 

[Default User]

Yes, why not? I think anyone posting to news knows that they have
to monitor the groups for a few days afterwards to receive any
replies.

Your experience is at variance with mine. I've seen people reposting
after a few hours of not receiving a reply. Sometimes within less than
an hour.

If that reply comes a few days later covered by the
'catch-all' off-topic reminder then what of it.

That's not what was proposed. I would be in favor of that, rather than
assuming that a weekly posting was sufficient.

They have been
told why the message is off topic and wis not best dealt with here.

And then someone else disagrees, and off we go.





Brian

 

[jellybean stonerfish]

Your experience is at variance with mine. I've seen people reposting
after a few hours of not receiving a reply. Sometimes within less than
an hour.

Sometimes within minutes.

 

[Rafael]

Han from China - Master Troll escreveu:

Rafael wrote:
<snip>

<snip>

This post was a trap. And works (Some how).

If we change the group name to comp.lang.complaining, everybody will be
on-topic. *EVERY* single one of *US* freaking all. As much as everyone
here, I know how hard is to keep your mouth shut... to knock it out.
Belive-me, its as hard for me as it is for you. But we are acting just
like kids. Is that some kind of "Who moved my cheese" contest?

Just play around that.

I think you are smart, because you are sarcastic. As much as Richard
Heathfield is.

Why smart people are breaking a mutual help group course (I'm taking 2
clear edges here... I can pick other names to do not start another
freaking 200 messages contest about "You started..", "No, you
started...", "Mooooom... he show's me the finger..." )?

Wtf is that?

I'm living the experience now of why people go to religious war. And
still can't agree with that.

And no... I'll not make a war to proof my point.

Bah... thats nostalgic... probably trying to get the crowd sympathy

Thanks
Rafael

 

[Richard Bos]

If he does, I'll provide an alibi.

So might I, if I thought it would help. It won't.

Richard

 

[Phil Carmody]

So might I, if I thought it would help. It won't.

No, but it's a start.

Phil