What is a "fresher"?

[Roedy Green]

Sometimes people in this newsgroup use the term "fresher".
What does it mean?

newbie?

first year university student?

Person applying for her first job?

???
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"We must be very careful when we give advice to younger people: sometimes
they follow it!"
~ Edsger Wybe Dijkstra, born: 1930-05-11 died: 2002-08-06 at age: 72

 

[Lew]

Looks like your newsreader is acting up again.

There aren't _any_ posts in this newsgroup where someone used the term
"fresher" to describe someone. The only other appearances this year are
in spam, and in one post where someone was describing himself being
"fresher" (as it "more alert").

There have been many posts in these newsgroups where the term "fresher" is used.

Ask your question where someone's actually using the term.

That would be here.

Better yet, don't post to any newsgroup. Just send email to the person who used the
word and ask them what they meant.

There are lots of people who use the term. Why not post the question generally?

 

[Andreas Leitgeb]

Sorry...I did a search, and since the beginning of 2009 ...
I don't know where you're seeing those posts, but they aren't showing up
here.

Out of curiosity I also did a search, just without limiting the date.
to be exact, I googled for: fresher group:comp.lang.java.programmer

Google gave me 70 hits (and after going to second page of 10 hits, that
number reduced to 38). The number of real spams isn't all that large
among those, instead the real majority are people identifying themselves
as being freshers and asking for jobs, tips for education or just solutions
for problems at hand.
And finally there are some uses of "fresher" as comparative of "fresh",

This one may be the most interesting hit:
http://groups.google.com/g/eb97fef5/t/cf4d28c2ff18d8fd/d/dee562ad545e7205
(see the followups by Rhino and Chris Uppal)

 

[Arved Sandstrom]

Out of curiosity I also did a search, just without limiting the date.
to be exact, I googled for: fresher group:comp.lang.java.programmer

Google gave me 70 hits (and after going to second page of 10 hits, that
number reduced to 38). The number of real spams isn't all that large
among those, instead the real majority are people identifying themselves
as being freshers and asking for jobs, tips for education or just solutions
for problems at hand.

At least one online dictionary says that "fresher" is a form of
"freshman", in UK and US usage. I've never heard it before but it could
be true. But judging by Google it looks like the Indians use this term a
lot - this is where your job sites come in. I'm guessing this is where
Roedy ran across the use of the word, in this context.

And finally there are some uses of "fresher" as comparative of "fresh",

This one may be the most interesting hit:
http://groups.google.com/g/eb97fef5/t/cf4d28c2ff18d8fd/d/dee562ad545e7205
(see the followups by Rhino and Chris Uppal)

AHS

 

[Roedy Green]

Nonetheless, if Roedy really did intend to post his question in this
newsgroup, far be it from me to make any more suggests regarding his
question. Of all the off-topic junk that shows up here, it certainly
would be among the most innocuous.

People, usually from India, say "I am a fresher ..." then launch into
their Java question. It may show up more often in one of the related
groups such as comp.lang.java.help. I meant long ago to research it
and put an entry in the glossary for it.

I was working on the netspeak SCNR entry and for some reason that old
task popped back into mind.

I am trying to HELP by documenting terminology you can't find in a
dictionary. I am not trying to harm you.

I get a fair bit of email from students. Perhaps that is where I have
actually seen it most.

There are enough troubles on this planet without seeking out
trivialities to get upset over. You seem to have gone to great effort
to irritate yourself.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"We must be very careful when we give advice to younger people: sometimes
they follow it!"
~ Edsger Wybe Dijkstra, born: 1930-05-11 died: 2002-08-06 at age: 72

 

[Lew]

Peter Duniho wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

Nonetheless, if Roedy really did intend to post his question in this
newsgroup, far be it from me to make any more suggests [sic] regarding his
question. Of all the off-topic junk that shows up here, it certainly
would be among the most innocuous.

When a term shows up in the newsgroup over and over again, as "fresher" has,
it becomes relevant for the smooth operation of the newsgroup as a whole that
people understand the term. I don't see Roedy's post as either off topic nor
"junk".

People, usually from India, say "I am a fresher ..." then launch into
their Java question. It may show up more often in one of the related
groups such as comp.lang.java.help. I meant long ago to research it
and put an entry in the glossary for it.

I was working on the netspeak SCNR entry and for some reason that old
task popped back into mind.

I am trying to HELP by documenting terminology you can't find in a
dictionary. I am not trying to harm you.

I get a fair bit of email from students. Perhaps that is where I have
actually seen it most.

There are enough troubles on this planet without seeking out
trivialities to get upset over. You seem to have gone to great effort
to irritate yourself.

OTOH, getting upset about trivialities may be an excellent defense mechanism
against being suicidally depressed over the big troubles. Let off a little
steam over off-topic posts, even if incorrectly identified as such, and you
don't need to cry yourself to sleep every night over Darfur.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Sometimes people in this newsgroup use the term "fresher".
What does it mean?

newbie?

first year university student?

Person applying for her first job?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresher

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

There have been many posts in these newsgroups where the term "fresher"
is used.

I don't think there are that many.

That would be here.


There are lots of people who use the term. Why not post the question
generally?

Because it is not related to Java or programming.

And anyone interested can look it up in Wikipedia.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Peter Duniho wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

Nonetheless, if Roedy really did intend to post his question in this
newsgroup, far be it from me to make any more suggests [sic]
regarding his question. Of all the off-topic junk that shows up
here, it certainly would be among the most innocuous.

When a term shows up in the newsgroup over and over again, as "fresher"
has, it becomes relevant for the smooth operation of the newsgroup as a
whole that people understand the term. I don't see Roedy's post as
either off topic nor "junk".

I do.

This is supposed to be a programming group.

If a programmer is not able to use Google or Wikipedia, then
I would suggest spending time learning those basic skills
before starting on Java programming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresher
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define:fresher

Arne

 

[Martin Gregorie]

At least one online dictionary says that "fresher" is a form of
"freshman", in UK and US usage. I've never heard it before but it could
be true.

That was standard usage in New Zealand when I was at university in the
late 60s.

 

[Arved Sandstrom]

That was standard usage in New Zealand when I was at university in the
late 60s.

None of the US/UK type terms are in common use in Canada. I refer to
freshman, sophomore, junior and senior. We simply use 1st year, 2nd year
and so forth...which seems a pretty straightforward system to me.
Some events surrounding 1st year may get labelled with "frosh", but
that's about it.

With respect to Roedy's original question, it appears to me that the
Indians are using the term in 2 ways: one to refer to 1st year students,
and one to refer to brand-new graduates. All the "fresher" job sites
hopefully refer to the latter category.

AHS

 

[Lew]

I do.

This is supposed to be a programming group.

And yet people seem to find a list of "pithy programming quotations", most of
which have little specific relevance to programming, acceptable.

It's a discussion group. Sometimes the discussion will focus on factors that
affect the discussion, but are not directly the topic of the discussion. For
example, we might engage in a discussion of which topics are on topic for the
discussion, and that's appropriate.

Just as much as being clear on the terms in use.

Personally, I detest the term "fresher" and hope no one else uses it again in
this group.

 

[Roedy Green]

before starting on Java programming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresher

I know what a freshman is in the US, but that is no guarantee that
when somebody from India uses the term fresher, they mean the same
thing. It is slang, and slang is often quite local, and people are
not aware it is local.

For example a friend in England talked about things going "pear
shaped" and was surprised I had never heard the term.

I got caught myself using the word "skookum", which turns out is a
BC-only word taken from one of the indigenous languages.

In 1979, I went to a movie with a guy from the North Eastern USA. He
said "We will have to hoof it". I thought that was a strange thing to
say, since we were already en route on foot. He got quite irritated,
and said, "I told you we would have to hoof it." I later found out
that "hoof it" means "jog" in his dialect.

Try deciphering some recent posts written by young American using the
words, dope, bad, wicked, evil, sick and cool using just the Oxford
dictionary.

I would have hoped by now we would have attracted a post from someone
from south Asia to settle the matter.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,
“it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.”
~ Lewis Carroll (born: 1832-01-27 died: 1898-01-14 at age: 65) —
Through the Looking Glass, Chapter 6
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"We must be very careful when we give advice to younger people: sometimes
they follow it!"
~ Edsger Wybe Dijkstra, born: 1930-05-11 died: 2002-08-06 at age: 72

 

[Lew]

In 1979, I went to a movie with a guy from the North Eastern USA. He
said "We will have to hoof it". I thought that was a strange thing to
say, since we were already en route on foot. He got quite irritated,
and said, "I told you we would have to hoof it." I later found out
that "hoof it" means "jog" in his dialect.

I'm from the north-eastern USA, Rhode Island and New York, and I have only
ever heard the term "hoof it" to mean "walk rather than ride".

 

[Arved Sandstrom]

I'm from the north-eastern USA, Rhode Island and New York, and I have
only ever heard the term "hoof it" to mean "walk rather than ride".

That's exactly how we'd use it in Nova Scotia too.

AHS

 

[Martin Gregorie]

I'm from the north-eastern USA, Rhode Island and New York, and I have
only ever heard the term "hoof it" to mean "walk rather than ride".

There is a rather obsolete usage, i.e. pre WW2, where "hoofing it" means
dancing. I know that as UK English but I think it may be USian too, since
IIRC referring to a stage dancer as a "hoofer" was American slang.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

And yet people seem to find a list of "pithy programming quotations",
most of which have little specific relevance to programming, acceptable.

I don't think I have previously stated that I find that
thread acceptable.

It is not about Java either, but at least it is about programming. And
some of the thoughts behind the quotes has also influenced Java.

Roedys study of English dialects is completely off topic and
uninteresting for most readers.

It's a discussion group. Sometimes the discussion will focus on factors
that affect the discussion, but are not directly the topic of the
discussion. For example, we might engage in a discussion of which
topics are on topic for the discussion, and that's appropriate.

Discussions happen, but there is little point in discussing something
everybody can look up in Wikipedia or Google.

It is like discussing what 2+2 is.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

I know what a freshman is in the US, but that is no guarantee that
when somebody from India uses the term fresher, they mean the same
thing. It is slang, and slang is often quite local, and people are
not aware it is local.

The answer to the question should really not depend on the specific
meaning of that word.

Someone posting to an international forum like this should expect
his words to be interpreted according to internet standard. If the
meaning was intended differently, then it is the posters problem.

And if you really are interested in learning indian slang, then
there are most likely dedicated forums for that as well.

And besides you could also just have tried emailing one of those
using the term to meet your curiosity.

Arne

 

[Lew]

When I see words like that in a programming newsgroup, I just ignore the
person writing them. None of those words have a precise technical
meaning, and anyone trying to use them to communicate about technical
programming topics is an idiot.

Actually, since generics and annotations came into Java, I've been discovering
how dope they are and what wicked cool things you can do with them. It's
simply sick how useful EJBs became since they went all, like, annotative.

 

[Mike Schilling]

Well, for the record, some people do and some people don't.
Personally, that thread is a perfect example of the kind of
off-topic
stuff I feel doesn't belong here. And frankly, Roedy is one of the
worst offenders when it comes to starting that kind of thread.

And a 20-post thread arguing about whether the original post is
inappropriate is such a useful contribution to the group. Let's have
more of them!