African Americans and Java/J2EE Development

Discussion in 'Java' started by bigbinc@hotmail.com, May 28, 2005.

  1. Guest

    Recently, I have been doing some job searching, career advancement, you
    know the deal. I am a J2EE Developer, standard Web application
    platform, Oracle backend. I have been doing a little Java research,
    going over how many jobs are growing in different areas, getting a feel
    for Java. The language may not have as many features as Python or
    other open source languages, but J2EE is growing, at least right now.

    Anyway, I have made an observation. Here in Atlanta, the job market is
    pretty steady. There are probably more diverse positions in California
    or Seattle, for example C/C++, but here the market is J2EE. Now,
    getting to the heart of my post, I have noticed a trend, that there
    don't seem to be many black males or females in the J2EE market, I have
    noticed, zero. So my question, are they any out there? I am a young
    black male, staying true to development. And, this is totally
    irrelevant, I could care less, I am just kind of curious what the
    environment is out there? And speak up, Raise your hand. I have
    worked with Nigerian/African developers with top-notch experience.
    But, I have rarely encountered full-time, working developers. I would
    also like to see if there are any latino developers out there. Now, we
    have talked about an influx of Chinese and Indian technical workers, I
    thought I would look at the American makeup.

    And, I have worked with older developers, very few young, even in the
    fare city of Atlanta.

    And then the next question, Why do you think this trend occurs. Now
    you can get into the negative, racial comments, "well black people have
    a poor education and aren't right for these type of jobs". There are
    countries like Brazil's economy that is one-eighth the size of the
    United States. And they are really make a mark on among the Java
    community. Developers can come from anywhere, like I mentioned
    earlier, it is really irrelevant.

    So, what say ye?

    A little plug, looking for a position in Atlanta:

    Berlin Brown
    http://www.jroller.com/page/berlinbrown
     
    , May 28, 2005
    #1
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  2. GfxGuy Guest

    Honestly? And this is as a developer in Atlanta... black people don't
    WANT to do it. The black culture (not race) in the U.S. doesn't like
    eggheads, it makes them look like sellouts to the white culture. I
    know that's a generalization, but it happens to be true often enough.

    When I think back to my college days (10+ years ago), I can think of
    only one black person in the whole college of engineering (where
    computer science was taught). It's not that blacks can't do it, they
    don't want to... there was plenty of blacks on campus in other
    disciplines (mostly liberal arts, especially communications). There
    were dozens of asians, indians, etc... one black guy.

    Just my opinion.
     
    GfxGuy, May 28, 2005
    #2
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  3. Guest

    I agree. My family consist of educated people. Most of the members of
    my family are pretty socialable. For me, I am very introverted. The
    black culture probably lends itself more to careers that involve a lot
    of interaction(for the educated, of course). I see Law, Education,
    Social Work, Business administration type stuff, are popular fields,
    even medicine.

    Interesting...
     
    , May 28, 2005
    #3
  4. Bob Guest

    GfxGuy wrote:
    > Honestly? And this is as a developer in Atlanta... black people don't
    > WANT to do it. The black culture (not race) in the U.S. doesn't like
    > eggheads, it makes them look like sellouts to the white culture. I
    > know that's a generalization, but it happens to be true often enough.
    >
    > When I think back to my college days (10+ years ago), I can think of
    > only one black person in the whole college of engineering (where
    > computer science was taught). It's not that blacks can't do it, they
    > don't want to... there was plenty of blacks on campus in other
    > disciplines (mostly liberal arts, especially communications). There
    > were dozens of asians, indians, etc... one black guy.
    >
    > Just my opinion.


    I'd agree. I'm in London, but it was the same story. The computing half
    of my degree course (based in Java) had a student body that I'd say was
    roughly 50% ethnic. Lots of guys (and some girls) with Asian
    backgrounds, Middle Eastern backgrounds, and some with South American
    backgrounds.

    I can only recall ever seeing one guy, and one girl from black-African
    backgrounds. The girl was a far, far better student than I was.

    So my experience agrees: it's not that black students couldn't possibly
    succeed in computing. It's just that it doesn't appeal to them as much
    as it does to students with other types of genetic heritage.
    --
    Bob
     
    Bob, May 28, 2005
    #4
  5. Avshi Guest

    "It's just that it doesn't appeal to them as much
    as it does to students with other types of genetic heritage"??

    What a bunch of bull!

    So are you attributing their ("they", being those with a "black"
    genetic heritage) supposed dislike to computing to their genetic
    makeup? Yeah, "They" should probably be picking cotton in the field.
    Would better fit their racial tendencies.

    How about other "genetic heritages"? Did you identify any identify any
    other racial tendencies?
     
    Avshi, May 29, 2005
    #5
  6. Oscar kind Guest

    [OT] Re: African Americans and Java/J2EE Development

    Avshi <> wrote:
    > So are you attributing their ("they", being those with a "black"
    > genetic heritage) supposed dislike to computing to their genetic
    > makeup? Yeah, "They" should probably be picking cotton in the field.
    > Would better fit their racial tendencies.
    >
    > How about other "genetic heritages"? Did you identify any identify any
    > other racial tendencies?


    Thank you for this piece of humour; I literally fell off my chair
    laughing.


    --
    Oscar Kind http://home.hccnet.nl/okind/
    Software Developer for contact information, see website

    PGP Key fingerprint: 91F3 6C72 F465 5E98 C246 61D9 2C32 8E24 097B B4E2
     
    Oscar kind, May 29, 2005
    #6
  7. "Avshi" <> wrote in news:1117348319.367541.299030
    @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

    > What a bunch of bull!
    >
    > So are you attributing their ("they", being those with a "black"
    > genetic heritage) supposed dislike to computing to their genetic
    > makeup? Yeah, "They" should probably be picking cotton in the field.
    > Would better fit their racial tendencies.
    >
    > How about other "genetic heritages"? Did you identify any identify any
    > other racial tendencies?




    I have this argument with my father in law frequently. He is of the
    opinion that there are very distinct differences between black and white
    that go well beyond outer appearance. He points out undeveloped Africa as
    an example, but ignores colonialism's impact on the entire continent.

    My opinion will have opposition as well, but I believe that although
    genetics are a factor in the general characteristics of a group (after
    all, there's no reason to believe that genetic qualities of distinctive
    groups end at the skin level), genes are far more important on an
    *individual* basis.

    IMHO, the inability of blacks to find real success in America is due to
    what I term their "culture of victimization." Blacks, as a group, are
    long time under-achievers because the very strong social conditioning
    within their culture tells young blacks that they must be different from
    whites. Education is not a priority, and that perpetuates the problem.
    Some people point to the overwhelming success of blacks in sports as an
    example that they are somehow more athletic. Rather, I think it merely
    demonstrates that American black culture places a higher priority on
    athletics as a means to success than other American sub-cultures.

    Of course, there are many exceptions, and as the overall culture changes,
    more and more blacks refuse to accept the dictates of their own culture,
    and find success through education and hard work, for which they are just
    as well suited as any other race of people on earth.
     
    The Sultan of UmPaPaPowMow, May 29, 2005
    #7
  8. Bob Guest

    Avshi wrote:
    > "It's just that it doesn't appeal to them as much
    > as it does to students with other types of genetic heritage"??
    >
    > What a bunch of bull!
    >
    > So are you attributing their ("they", being those with a "black"
    > genetic heritage) supposed dislike to computing to their genetic
    > makeup?


    No, I think it's cultural. Every person is an individual. But this
    discussion is about averages.

    If it sounds like I'm saying that genetic makeup sets anything in stone,
    then I apologise.

    > Yeah, "They" should probably be picking cotton in the field.
    > Would better fit their racial tendencies.


    Now you're making racial assumptions. My skin colour does not
    automatically endow me with the belief that black people should still be
    slaves or manual workers.
    --
    Bob
     
    Bob, May 30, 2005
    #8
  9. Guest

    And for me, just being realistic, I grew up in Austin, the black
    culture is different there than it is in Atlanta.

    "Yeah, "They" should probably be picking cotton in the field.
    "Would better fit their racial tendencies. "

    Silly.
     
    , May 30, 2005
    #9
  10. truballas2

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1
    J2ee developer

    I'm a black J2ee developer. I'm 23 and just recently graduated college. Played football my freshmen year. When i was looking for jobs in java I employers replied that the java positions are usually filled by people not born in the U.S. Going through college I was the on black person in my classes. I will be completely honest with you. I felt like it was harder and its harder for me to socialize at my job. A lot of the time my fellow employees aren't speaking english. They go out and hang with each other. Even though I am only 23 and have only been in this field a year I find myself questioning on the major I chose. The pay is good, but I had to move to a big city where I don't know anyone and it is hard for me to make friends at work. Right now I feel like I am sacrificing my social life for a good paycheck. Recently I started doing more Oracle pl/sql programming for my company to try to find people to talk to.
     
    truballas2, Sep 13, 2006
    #10
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