applets

Discussion in 'Java' started by bob smith, Jun 13, 2012.

  1. bob smith

    bob smith Guest

    Do any serious Java developers still work on applets? Or are they pretty much dead?
    bob smith, Jun 13, 2012
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. On 6/13/2012 7:54 AM, bob smith wrote:
    > Do any serious Java developers still work on applets? Or are they pretty much dead?


    I don't know if they are serious but there are still lots of Java
    Applets being created and deployed.

    --

    Knute Johnson
    Knute Johnson, Jun 13, 2012
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. bob smith

    markspace Guest

    On 6/13/2012 7:54 AM, bob smith wrote:
    > Do any serious Java developers still work on applets? Or are they
    > pretty much dead?



    I like Knute's answer. Applets seem to be used occasionally, where
    nothing else will do. However it seems to me the deployment to users
    mechanism is still kinda clunky, and therefore applets tend to be
    avoided. Applets are still heavyweight relative to alternatives like
    Flash, HTML5 and JavaScript. They boot more slowly, and therefore are
    perceived to provide a lesser user experience.
    markspace, Jun 13, 2012
    #3
  4. bob smith

    Stefan Ram Guest

    markspace <-@.> writes:
    >However it seems to me the deployment to users mechanism is
    >still kinda clunky, and therefore applets tend to be avoided.


    I never understood the decline of applets. Last time I
    asked, I was told IIRC that the problems had to do with
    upward or downward compatibility. (Possibly some old applets
    were not running with newer Java versions?) But IIRC no one
    did mention the deployment. So I get the impression that it
    is not really obvious what the actual problem with applets
    is. Recently some security problems with Java made it into
    the press. So nowadays one might even give this as a reason.

    To me, the problems are more in the realm of HTML
    integration: Applets usually have a fixed size like an
    image, while HTML documents are free size. People want to
    script the HTML doc model and while this is possible with a
    Java applet using a JavaScript interface layer it is not
    directly supported. Java Applets instead should have direct
    support for a HTML document as their primary user interface,
    even to the point where for output of graphics embedded
    pictures (for example GIF images) are created on the fly.

    On could still start to do this today with HTML 5. All
    that is done today with JavaScript should also be possible
    with Java.
    Stefan Ram, Jun 13, 2012
    #4
  5. On 6/13/2012 9:09 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:
    > markspace <-@.> writes:
    >> However it seems to me the deployment to users mechanism is
    >> still kinda clunky, and therefore applets tend to be avoided.

    >
    > I never understood the decline of applets. Last time I
    > asked, I was told IIRC that the problems had to do with
    > upward or downward compatibility. (Possibly some old applets
    > were not running with newer Java versions?) But IIRC no one
    > did mention the deployment. So I get the impression that it
    > is not really obvious what the actual problem with applets
    > is. Recently some security problems with Java made it into
    > the press. So nowadays one might even give this as a reason.
    >
    > To me, the problems are more in the realm of HTML
    > integration: Applets usually have a fixed size like an
    > image, while HTML documents are free size. People want to
    > script the HTML doc model and while this is possible with a
    > Java applet using a JavaScript interface layer it is not
    > directly supported. Java Applets instead should have direct
    > support for a HTML document as their primary user interface,
    > even to the point where for output of graphics embedded
    > pictures (for example GIF images) are created on the fly.
    >
    > On could still start to do this today with HTML 5. All
    > that is done today with JavaScript should also be possible
    > with Java.
    >


    Isn't that a lot of the stuff that JavaFX is supposed to do?

    --

    Knute Johnson
    Knute Johnson, Jun 14, 2012
    #5
  6. On 6/13/2012 9:54 AM, bob smith wrote:
    > Do any serious Java developers still work on applets? Or are they pretty much dead?


    I now use Mathematica to make applets.

    These are written in Mathematica though, not Java.

    They run in the browser, and need a plugin installed (like
    with Java). there are now 8,000 applets at this site to run

    http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/

    I've written applets in Java, and I found that it is easier/faster
    for me to make an applet using Mathematica than with Java.

    There is really limited options for make applets that
    run in the browser. The ones I know about are:

    1. Java applets
    2. Mathematica
    3. Flash
    4. HTML5-Javascript
    5. JavaFx
    6. Microsoft Silverlight

    --Nasser
    Nasser M. Abbasi, Jun 14, 2012
    #6
  7. bob smith

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:54:47 -0700 (PDT), bob smith
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
    who said :

    >Do any serious Java developers still work on applets? Or are they pretty much dead?


    The advantage is people can play with them without any commitment to
    install. They require no skill to use. You just start clicking. You
    would be amazed how many people who call themselves Java programmers
    cannot unzip a jar and run it.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com
    Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming.
    ~ Brian W. Kernighan 1942-01-01
    ..
    Roedy Green, Jun 14, 2012
    #7
  8. bob smith

    Lew Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > bob smith wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
    >> Do any serious Java developers still work on applets? Or are they pretty much dead?

    >
    > The advantage is people can play with them without any commitment to
    > install. They require no skill to use. You just start clicking. You
    > would be amazed how many people who call themselves Java programmers
    > cannot unzip a jar and run it.


    Or run it without unzipping it.

    --
    Lew
    Honi soit qui mal y pense.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg
    Lew, Jun 14, 2012
    #8
  9. bob smith

    David Lamb Guest

    On 14/06/2012 4:00 AM, Roedy Green wrote:
    > On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:54:47 -0700 (PDT), bob smith
    > <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
    > who said :
    >> Do any serious Java developers still work on applets? Or are they pretty much dead?

    >
    > The advantage is people can play with them without any commitment to
    > install. They require no skill to use. You just start clicking.


    You can "just start clicking" with Java Web Start as well, as long as
    you've installed a Java implementation. ISTR that Sun introduced JWS in
    part because browser implementations of Java (as used by applets)
    weren't keeping up with changes and at the time in particular often
    didn't have any of the javax.* packages.
    David Lamb, Jun 14, 2012
    #9
  10. bob smith

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 03:08:41 -0700, Lew <> wrote,
    quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >> cannot unzip a jar and run it.

    >
    >Or run it without unzipping it.


    what I meant was unzip a bundle including an executable jar.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com
    Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming.
    ~ Brian W. Kernighan 1942-01-01
    ..
    Roedy Green, Jun 17, 2012
    #10
  11. bob smith

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:09:27 -0400, David Lamb <>
    wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >
    >You can "just start clicking" with Java Web Start as well, as long as
    >you've installed a Java implementation. ISTR that Sun introduced JWS in
    >part because browser implementations of Java (as used by applets)
    >weren't keeping up with changes and at the time in particular often
    >didn't have any of the javax.* packages.


    The fool JRE does not install JWS properly, putting links to javaw.exe
    in the browsers and setting up an association. This is a roadblock to
    newbie use.

    The other problem is the user has to wait while a new JVM loads.

    The big advantage is you run outside the browser. So it works without
    interference or tweaking. It also slickly handles JNI for you, even
    better than a standalone app. It also handles auto-updates.

    I wish Oracle would fix up that install problem, then JWS could really
    take off.

    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com
    Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming.
    ~ Brian W. Kernighan 1942-01-01
    ..
    Roedy Green, Jun 17, 2012
    #11
  12. bob smith

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 6/13/2012 10:54 AM, bob smith wrote:
    > Do any serious Java developers still work on applets? Or are they pretty much dead?


    Applets are still used but are relative rare.

    Modern HTML/CSS/JS can do a lot.

    If that is not sufficient then both Flash/Flex and Silverlight
    seems to be preferred by most.

    But if you like Java, then applets is certainly still a possibility.

    And in fact they may survive both Flash/Flex and Silverlight as
    Adobe and MS are focusing on HTML5 now.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jun 17, 2012
    #12
  13. bob smith

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 6/13/2012 11:30 AM, markspace wrote:
    > However it seems to me the deployment to users
    > mechanism is still kinda clunky, and therefore applets tend to be
    > avoided. Applets are still heavyweight relative to alternatives like
    > Flash, HTML5 and JavaScript. They boot more slowly, and therefore are
    > perceived to provide a lesser user experience.


    That is certainly a common perception.

    But I am not convinced that there is so much reality behind it.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jun 17, 2012
    #13
  14. bob smith

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 6/13/2012 12:09 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
    > markspace <-@.> writes:
    >> However it seems to me the deployment to users mechanism is
    >> still kinda clunky, and therefore applets tend to be avoided.

    >
    > I never understood the decline of applets. Last time I
    > asked, I was told IIRC that the problems had to do with
    > upward or downward compatibility. (Possibly some old applets
    > were not running with newer Java versions?) But IIRC no one
    > did mention the deployment. So I get the impression that it
    > is not really obvious what the actual problem with applets
    > is. Recently some security problems with Java made it into
    > the press. So nowadays one might even give this as a reason.
    >
    > To me, the problems are more in the realm of HTML
    > integration: Applets usually have a fixed size like an
    > image, while HTML documents are free size. People want to
    > script the HTML doc model and while this is possible with a
    > Java applet using a JavaScript interface layer it is not
    > directly supported. Java Applets instead should have direct
    > support for a HTML document as their primary user interface,
    > even to the point where for output of graphics embedded
    > pictures (for example GIF images) are created on the fly.
    >
    > On could still start to do this today with HTML 5. All
    > that is done today with JavaScript should also be possible
    > with Java.


    I think the reasons are:
    1) Fashion - Java applets are not fashionable today.
    2) Lack of need today:
    - for simple menus etc. HTML/CSS/JS works fine so no need for
    a plugin at all
    - for fancy graphical stuff Flash/Flex and SL are simply considered
    better (JavaFX came very late)
    so that laves relative little for Java applets

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jun 17, 2012
    #14
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Eitan

    Dotnet versus Java-Applets

    Eitan, Nov 8, 2004, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    40
    Views:
    4,408
    =?Utf-8?B?RXh0cmVtZSBEYXRhc2V0cw==?=
    Aug 6, 2005
  2. shreesh

    Equivalent to JAVA Applets

    shreesh, Oct 18, 2003, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    373
    Juan Wajnerman
    Oct 18, 2003
  3. Alan Seunarayan

    Applets (.NET style!)

    Alan Seunarayan, Apr 18, 2004, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    364
    [MSFT]
    Apr 20, 2004
  4. =?Utf-8?B?RXJpYyBEYW4=?=

    Equivalent of applets or ActiveX controls in .NET?

    =?Utf-8?B?RXJpYyBEYW4=?=, Jan 20, 2005, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    11
    Views:
    2,252
    Ken Cox [Microsoft MVP]
    Jan 20, 2005
  5. Praveen M V

    Downloading files with applets

    Praveen M V, Aug 13, 2003, in forum: Java
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    338
    Dave Miller
    Aug 13, 2003
Loading...

Share This Page