ASP.NET Web Forms Validation Controls are Server-Side or Client-Side Validation?

Discussion in 'ASP .Net' started by Matt, Jan 22, 2004.

  1. Matt

    Matt Guest

    I want to know if ASP.NET Web Forms Validation Controls are Server-Side or
    Client-Side form validation? Since I think each validator control can select
    either 1) JavaScript based error dialog or 2) show the error message next to
    the control. For example, if the text field is empty with RequiredField
    Validator control, it can show the value in ControlToValidate property in
    two ways as I mentioned.

    Please advise. Thanks!
    Matt, Jan 22, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Matt

    Scott M. Guest

    All the validation controls perform their respective validations BOTH client
    and server side. The validation is first done client side to prevent a
    wastefull trip to the server when the data is know to violate the validation
    rules. Assuming the data is good (or seems to be), the validation is again
    performed on the server to catch any spoofing attempts by the client.

    Validation controls have an "EnableClientScript" property (which defaults to
    true) to indicate if the client side validation should, in fact, take place
    (this is presumably for situations when the client might have scripting
    turned off). Even if this setting is false, the server side validation will
    still occur.

    Now to your specific question, in VS.NET 2002, there is only 1 way that a
    validator will show its error message and that is to show the error message
    on the page where the validation control is placed. There is no setting for
    the message to come up in a JavaScript "alert()" dialog. The exception to
    this is the ValidationSummary control which does have a "ShowMessageBox"
    property where the summary results from all validations that have failed
    will show in a JavaScript "alert()" dialog.


    "Matt" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I want to know if ASP.NET Web Forms Validation Controls are Server-Side or
    > Client-Side form validation? Since I think each validator control can

    select
    > either 1) JavaScript based error dialog or 2) show the error message next

    to
    > the control. For example, if the text field is empty with RequiredField
    > Validator control, it can show the value in ControlToValidate property in
    > two ways as I mentioned.
    >
    > Please advise. Thanks!
    >
    >
    Scott M., Jan 22, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Matt

    Matt Guest

    Thanks Scott.

    For the server side validation you mentioned: "the validation is again
    performed on the server to catch any spoofing attempts by the client." What
    does it mean "spoofing attempts by the client?" Can you give some concrete
    examples?

    thanks!

    "Scott M." <> wrote in message
    news:#qD#...
    > All the validation controls perform their respective validations BOTH

    client
    > and server side. The validation is first done client side to prevent a
    > wastefull trip to the server when the data is know to violate the

    validation
    > rules. Assuming the data is good (or seems to be), the validation is

    again
    > performed on the server to catch any spoofing attempts by the client.
    >
    > Validation controls have an "EnableClientScript" property (which defaults

    to
    > true) to indicate if the client side validation should, in fact, take

    place
    > (this is presumably for situations when the client might have scripting
    > turned off). Even if this setting is false, the server side validation

    will
    > still occur.
    >
    > Now to your specific question, in VS.NET 2002, there is only 1 way that a
    > validator will show its error message and that is to show the error

    message
    > on the page where the validation control is placed. There is no setting

    for
    > the message to come up in a JavaScript "alert()" dialog. The exception to
    > this is the ValidationSummary control which does have a "ShowMessageBox"
    > property where the summary results from all validations that have failed
    > will show in a JavaScript "alert()" dialog.
    >
    >
    > "Matt" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > I want to know if ASP.NET Web Forms Validation Controls are Server-Side

    or
    > > Client-Side form validation? Since I think each validator control can

    > select
    > > either 1) JavaScript based error dialog or 2) show the error message

    next
    > to
    > > the control. For example, if the text field is empty with RequiredField
    > > Validator control, it can show the value in ControlToValidate property

    in
    > > two ways as I mentioned.
    > >
    > > Please advise. Thanks!
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Matt, Jan 22, 2004
    #3
  4. Matt

    Scott M. Guest

    "Spoofing" is one of the oldest problems on the web...

    Let's say I run a business and have a form on my web site abc.com that
    requires that you fill in certain information and enforces this by including
    some client side code to check that you have filled that data in before the
    form will submit data back to me (abc.com).

    Now, let's say you view my source code once the page has been delivered to
    your browser (client) and save that source code to a local file on your hard
    drive. You have now, made a copy of my web page and saved it on your own
    machine. You go into my code and remove all my JavaScript that was
    enforcing the required data and save your copy of my page without all that
    stuff.

    Now, you bring up YOUR MODIFIED VERSION of my web page and fill in the form
    (or don't fill in the form) and hit submit...Since the form will still send
    the data back to me (abc.com), I will now recieve whatever you sent (or
    didn't send). The form no longer checks you. This is spoofing.

    Because .NET validation controls will do their check on the server as well
    as the client, in the example I just described (spoofing), your mal-formed
    data submission will be caught not by the client (you removed that remember)
    by the server. So, in .NET, spoofing is not a problem.

    Hope this helps!

    Scott M.

    "Matt" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks Scott.
    >
    > For the server side validation you mentioned: "the validation is again
    > performed on the server to catch any spoofing attempts by the client."

    What
    > does it mean "spoofing attempts by the client?" Can you give some concrete
    > examples?
    >
    > thanks!
    >
    > "Scott M." <> wrote in message
    > news:#qD#...
    > > All the validation controls perform their respective validations BOTH

    > client
    > > and server side. The validation is first done client side to prevent a
    > > wastefull trip to the server when the data is know to violate the

    > validation
    > > rules. Assuming the data is good (or seems to be), the validation is

    > again
    > > performed on the server to catch any spoofing attempts by the client.
    > >
    > > Validation controls have an "EnableClientScript" property (which

    defaults
    > to
    > > true) to indicate if the client side validation should, in fact, take

    > place
    > > (this is presumably for situations when the client might have scripting
    > > turned off). Even if this setting is false, the server side validation

    > will
    > > still occur.
    > >
    > > Now to your specific question, in VS.NET 2002, there is only 1 way that

    a
    > > validator will show its error message and that is to show the error

    > message
    > > on the page where the validation control is placed. There is no setting

    > for
    > > the message to come up in a JavaScript "alert()" dialog. The exception

    to
    > > this is the ValidationSummary control which does have a "ShowMessageBox"
    > > property where the summary results from all validations that have failed
    > > will show in a JavaScript "alert()" dialog.
    > >
    > >
    > > "Matt" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > I want to know if ASP.NET Web Forms Validation Controls are

    Server-Side
    > or
    > > > Client-Side form validation? Since I think each validator control can

    > > select
    > > > either 1) JavaScript based error dialog or 2) show the error message

    > next
    > > to
    > > > the control. For example, if the text field is empty with

    RequiredField
    > > > Validator control, it can show the value in ControlToValidate property

    > in
    > > > two ways as I mentioned.
    > > >
    > > > Please advise. Thanks!
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Scott M., Jan 22, 2004
    #4
  5. Matt

    Matt Guest

    Thanks Scott.

    As you mentioned, ASP.NET has server-side validation to prevent "Spoofing".
    But how ASP to handle that situation?

    Thanks!


    "Scott M." <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Spoofing" is one of the oldest problems on the web...
    >
    > Let's say I run a business and have a form on my web site abc.com that
    > requires that you fill in certain information and enforces this by

    including
    > some client side code to check that you have filled that data in before

    the
    > form will submit data back to me (abc.com).
    >
    > Now, let's say you view my source code once the page has been delivered to
    > your browser (client) and save that source code to a local file on your

    hard
    > drive. You have now, made a copy of my web page and saved it on your own
    > machine. You go into my code and remove all my JavaScript that was
    > enforcing the required data and save your copy of my page without all that
    > stuff.
    >
    > Now, you bring up YOUR MODIFIED VERSION of my web page and fill in the

    form
    > (or don't fill in the form) and hit submit...Since the form will still

    send
    > the data back to me (abc.com), I will now recieve whatever you sent (or
    > didn't send). The form no longer checks you. This is spoofing.
    >
    > Because .NET validation controls will do their check on the server as well
    > as the client, in the example I just described (spoofing), your mal-formed
    > data submission will be caught not by the client (you removed that

    remember)
    > by the server. So, in .NET, spoofing is not a problem.
    >
    > Hope this helps!
    >
    > Scott M.
    >
    > "Matt" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Thanks Scott.
    > >
    > > For the server side validation you mentioned: "the validation is again
    > > performed on the server to catch any spoofing attempts by the client."

    > What
    > > does it mean "spoofing attempts by the client?" Can you give some

    concrete
    > > examples?
    > >
    > > thanks!
    > >
    > > "Scott M." <> wrote in message
    > > news:#qD#...
    > > > All the validation controls perform their respective validations BOTH

    > > client
    > > > and server side. The validation is first done client side to prevent

    a
    > > > wastefull trip to the server when the data is know to violate the

    > > validation
    > > > rules. Assuming the data is good (or seems to be), the validation is

    > > again
    > > > performed on the server to catch any spoofing attempts by the client.
    > > >
    > > > Validation controls have an "EnableClientScript" property (which

    > defaults
    > > to
    > > > true) to indicate if the client side validation should, in fact, take

    > > place
    > > > (this is presumably for situations when the client might have

    scripting
    > > > turned off). Even if this setting is false, the server side

    validation
    > > will
    > > > still occur.
    > > >
    > > > Now to your specific question, in VS.NET 2002, there is only 1 way

    that
    > a
    > > > validator will show its error message and that is to show the error

    > > message
    > > > on the page where the validation control is placed. There is no

    setting
    > > for
    > > > the message to come up in a JavaScript "alert()" dialog. The

    exception
    > to
    > > > this is the ValidationSummary control which does have a

    "ShowMessageBox"
    > > > property where the summary results from all validations that have

    failed
    > > > will show in a JavaScript "alert()" dialog.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "Matt" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > > > I want to know if ASP.NET Web Forms Validation Controls are

    > Server-Side
    > > or
    > > > > Client-Side form validation? Since I think each validator control

    can
    > > > select
    > > > > either 1) JavaScript based error dialog or 2) show the error message

    > > next
    > > > to
    > > > > the control. For example, if the text field is empty with

    > RequiredField
    > > > > Validator control, it can show the value in ControlToValidate

    property
    > > in
    > > > > two ways as I mentioned.
    > > > >
    > > > > Please advise. Thanks!
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Matt, Jan 22, 2004
    #5
  6. Matt

    Scott M. Guest

    It doesn't! Developers has to write thier own server side code to double
    check the data coming in from a form.


    "Matt" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks Scott.
    >
    > As you mentioned, ASP.NET has server-side validation to prevent

    "Spoofing".
    > But how ASP to handle that situation?
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
    >
    > "Scott M." <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > "Spoofing" is one of the oldest problems on the web...
    > >
    > > Let's say I run a business and have a form on my web site abc.com that
    > > requires that you fill in certain information and enforces this by

    > including
    > > some client side code to check that you have filled that data in before

    > the
    > > form will submit data back to me (abc.com).
    > >
    > > Now, let's say you view my source code once the page has been delivered

    to
    > > your browser (client) and save that source code to a local file on your

    > hard
    > > drive. You have now, made a copy of my web page and saved it on your

    own
    > > machine. You go into my code and remove all my JavaScript that was
    > > enforcing the required data and save your copy of my page without all

    that
    > > stuff.
    > >
    > > Now, you bring up YOUR MODIFIED VERSION of my web page and fill in the

    > form
    > > (or don't fill in the form) and hit submit...Since the form will still

    > send
    > > the data back to me (abc.com), I will now recieve whatever you sent (or
    > > didn't send). The form no longer checks you. This is spoofing.
    > >
    > > Because .NET validation controls will do their check on the server as

    well
    > > as the client, in the example I just described (spoofing), your

    mal-formed
    > > data submission will be caught not by the client (you removed that

    > remember)
    > > by the server. So, in .NET, spoofing is not a problem.
    > >
    > > Hope this helps!
    > >
    > > Scott M.
    > >
    > > "Matt" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > Thanks Scott.
    > > >
    > > > For the server side validation you mentioned: "the validation is again
    > > > performed on the server to catch any spoofing attempts by the client."

    > > What
    > > > does it mean "spoofing attempts by the client?" Can you give some

    > concrete
    > > > examples?
    > > >
    > > > thanks!
    > > >
    > > > "Scott M." <> wrote in message
    > > > news:#qD#...
    > > > > All the validation controls perform their respective validations

    BOTH
    > > > client
    > > > > and server side. The validation is first done client side to

    prevent
    > a
    > > > > wastefull trip to the server when the data is know to violate the
    > > > validation
    > > > > rules. Assuming the data is good (or seems to be), the validation

    is
    > > > again
    > > > > performed on the server to catch any spoofing attempts by the

    client.
    > > > >
    > > > > Validation controls have an "EnableClientScript" property (which

    > > defaults
    > > > to
    > > > > true) to indicate if the client side validation should, in fact,

    take
    > > > place
    > > > > (this is presumably for situations when the client might have

    > scripting
    > > > > turned off). Even if this setting is false, the server side

    > validation
    > > > will
    > > > > still occur.
    > > > >
    > > > > Now to your specific question, in VS.NET 2002, there is only 1 way

    > that
    > > a
    > > > > validator will show its error message and that is to show the error
    > > > message
    > > > > on the page where the validation control is placed. There is no

    > setting
    > > > for
    > > > > the message to come up in a JavaScript "alert()" dialog. The

    > exception
    > > to
    > > > > this is the ValidationSummary control which does have a

    > "ShowMessageBox"
    > > > > property where the summary results from all validations that have

    > failed
    > > > > will show in a JavaScript "alert()" dialog.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > "Matt" <> wrote in message
    > > > > news:...
    > > > > > I want to know if ASP.NET Web Forms Validation Controls are

    > > Server-Side
    > > > or
    > > > > > Client-Side form validation? Since I think each validator control

    > can
    > > > > select
    > > > > > either 1) JavaScript based error dialog or 2) show the error

    message
    > > > next
    > > > > to
    > > > > > the control. For example, if the text field is empty with

    > > RequiredField
    > > > > > Validator control, it can show the value in ControlToValidate

    > property
    > > > in
    > > > > > two ways as I mentioned.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Please advise. Thanks!
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Scott M., Jan 22, 2004
    #6
  7. Matt

    Peter Blum Guest

    Here's a slightly different perspective on Microsoft's client-side
    validation: it only works on IE and IE/Mac browsers. For other browsers, it
    uses that server side validation to catch errors. I have a commercial
    solution that replaces Microsoft's validators with 22 validator controls
    that support IE, IE/Mac, Netscape/Mozilla, Opera 7 and Safari with
    client-side validation. Its called "Professional Validation And More" at
    http://www.peterblum.com/vam/home.aspx.

    --- Peter Blum
    www.PeterBlum.com
    Email:

    "Matt" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I want to know if ASP.NET Web Forms Validation Controls are Server-Side or
    > Client-Side form validation? Since I think each validator control can

    select
    > either 1) JavaScript based error dialog or 2) show the error message next

    to
    > the control. For example, if the text field is empty with RequiredField
    > Validator control, it can show the value in ControlToValidate property in
    > two ways as I mentioned.
    >
    > Please advise. Thanks!
    >
    >
    Peter Blum, Jan 23, 2004
    #7
  8. Matt

    Scott M. Guest

    Actually, the validation controls will work client-side on any browser that
    supports JavaScript. This includes IE, Netscape, Mozilla, Opera & Mosaic.


    "Peter Blum" <> wrote in message
    news:OC%...
    > Here's a slightly different perspective on Microsoft's client-side
    > validation: it only works on IE and IE/Mac browsers. For other browsers,

    it
    > uses that server side validation to catch errors. I have a commercial
    > solution that replaces Microsoft's validators with 22 validator controls
    > that support IE, IE/Mac, Netscape/Mozilla, Opera 7 and Safari with
    > client-side validation. Its called "Professional Validation And More" at
    > http://www.peterblum.com/vam/home.aspx.
    >
    > --- Peter Blum
    > www.PeterBlum.com
    > Email:
    >
    > "Matt" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > I want to know if ASP.NET Web Forms Validation Controls are Server-Side

    or
    > > Client-Side form validation? Since I think each validator control can

    > select
    > > either 1) JavaScript based error dialog or 2) show the error message

    next
    > to
    > > the control. For example, if the text field is empty with RequiredField
    > > Validator control, it can show the value in ControlToValidate property

    in
    > > two ways as I mentioned.
    > >
    > > Please advise. Thanks!
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Scott M., Jan 24, 2004
    #8
  9. "Scott M." <> wrote in news:ehg5XFi4DHA.2756
    @TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:
    > Actually, the validation controls will work client-side on any browser
    > supports JavaScript. This includes IE, Netscape, Mozilla, Opera &


    What is Peter referncing then in his case? Why would he need to write
    commercial replacements?

    > "Peter Blum" <> wrote in message
    > news:OC%...
    >> Here's a slightly different perspective on Microsoft's client-side
    >> validation: it only works on IE and IE/Mac browsers. For other browsers,

    > it
    >> uses that server side validation to catch errors. I have a commercial
    >> solution that replaces Microsoft's validators with 22 validator controls
    >> that support IE, IE/Mac, Netscape/Mozilla, Opera 7 and Safari with
    >> client-side validation. Its called "Professional Validation And More" at
    >> http://www.peterblum.com/vam/home.aspx.



    --
    Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    "Programming is an art form that fights back"


    ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu, Jan 24, 2004
    #9
  10. Matt

    Scott M. Guest

    I supect he has custom validators that go beyond the 6 that MS provides.
    I'm not saying his validators are/aren't useful, but his statement about the
    MS validators only working in IE/Mac browsers is incorrect.


    "Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns947AC9549D7CDcpub@127.0.0.1...
    > "Scott M." <> wrote in news:ehg5XFi4DHA.2756
    > @TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:
    > > Actually, the validation controls will work client-side on any browser
    > > supports JavaScript. This includes IE, Netscape, Mozilla, Opera &

    >
    > What is Peter referncing then in his case? Why would he need to write
    > commercial replacements?
    >
    > > "Peter Blum" <> wrote in message
    > > news:OC%...
    > >> Here's a slightly different perspective on Microsoft's client-side
    > >> validation: it only works on IE and IE/Mac browsers. For other

    browsers,
    > > it
    > >> uses that server side validation to catch errors. I have a commercial
    > >> solution that replaces Microsoft's validators with 22 validator

    controls
    > >> that support IE, IE/Mac, Netscape/Mozilla, Opera 7 and Safari with
    > >> client-side validation. Its called "Professional Validation And More"

    at
    > >> http://www.peterblum.com/vam/home.aspx.

    >
    >
    > --
    > Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    > "Programming is an art form that fights back"
    >
    >
    > ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    >
    Scott M., Jan 24, 2004
    #10
  11. "Scott M." <> wrote in
    news:#:
    > I supect he has custom validators that go beyond the 6 that MS provides.
    > I'm not saying his validators are/aren't useful, but his statement about
    > the MS validators only working in IE/Mac browsers is incorrect.


    Thanks for the clarification.
    7


    --
    Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    "Programming is an art form that fights back"


    ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu, Jan 24, 2004
    #11
  12. Matt

    Peter Blum Guest

    Let's try this again. Microsoft's client side script file,
    WebUIValidation.js, is written for DHTML browsers. It uses document.all[] to
    lookup the <span> tag that represents the validator's error message. It does
    not use document.getElementById(), which is required for DOM-based browsers
    like Netscape/Mozilla and Safari. Whether or not you can get the
    WebUIValidation.js file to load on these DOM browsers, they will report
    javascript errors when the code is run.

    I'm not making any new claims here. This limitation has long been realized.

    To be clear, I didn't write a few custom validators. I wrote an entirely new
    framework for validation to address a long list of desirable things in
    validation that were very difficult and at times impossible to address with
    Microsoft's framework.

    --- Peter Blum
    www.PeterBlum.com
    Email:
    Creator of "Professional Validation And More" at
    http://www.peterblum.com/vam/home.aspx

    "Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns947B1BE15628cpub@127.0.0.1...
    > "Scott M." <> wrote in
    > news:#:
    > > I supect he has custom validators that go beyond the 6 that MS provides.
    > > I'm not saying his validators are/aren't useful, but his statement about
    > > the MS validators only working in IE/Mac browsers is incorrect.

    >
    > Thanks for the clarification.
    > 7
    >
    >
    > --
    > Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    > "Programming is an art form that fights back"
    >
    >
    > ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    >
    Peter Blum, Jan 27, 2004
    #12
  13. "Peter Blum" <> wrote in
    news:#:
    > Let's try this again. Microsoft's client side script file,
    > WebUIValidation.js, is written for DHTML browsers. It uses
    > document.all[] to lookup the <span> tag that represents the validator's
    > error message. It does not use document.getElementById(), which is


    Can anyone else confirm this?


    --
    Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    "Programming is an art form that fights back"


    ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu, Jan 27, 2004
    #13
  14. Matt

    Peter Blum Guest

    I don't appreciate this lack of trust in me. Just because I publish a
    commercial replacement to Microsoft's validators makes me suspect? Look, I
    created a product because I spent time studying the issues and found a
    tremendous list of problems to be addressed
    (http://www.peterblum.com/vam/valmain.aspx). At this point, I may be one of
    the most experienced people in the validation technology on ASP.NET
    platforms.

    1. Does WebUIValidation.js use the document.all[] command? Open the file and
    search for it! Its in the function ValidatorHookupControlID, which attaches
    the ControlToValidate to a client-side function that is called on onclick or
    onchange events.

    2. Is document.all[] DHTML only? Look at the w3c.org standard for DOM and
    see that they only support document.getElementById() as a method to lookup
    an ID. Look at Microsoft's DHTML reference for the 'all' property:
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d...hor/dhtml/reference/dhtml_reference_entry.asp
    It says under "Standards information" "There is no public standard that
    applies to this collection". In otherwords, its not in the W3C (DOM)
    standard.

    --- Peter Blum
    www.PeterBlum.com
    Email:
    Creator of "Professional Validation And More" at
    http://www.peterblum.com/vam/home.aspx

    "Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns947D69B2BC3E4cpub@127.0.0.1...
    > "Peter Blum" <> wrote in
    > news:#:
    > > Let's try this again. Microsoft's client side script file,
    > > WebUIValidation.js, is written for DHTML browsers. It uses
    > > document.all[] to lookup the <span> tag that represents the validator's
    > > error message. It does not use document.getElementById(), which is

    >
    > Can anyone else confirm this?
    >
    >
    > --
    > Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    > "Programming is an art form that fights back"
    >
    >
    > ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    >
    Peter Blum, Jan 28, 2004
    #14
  15. "Peter Blum" <> wrote in
    news::
    > I don't appreciate this lack of trust in me. Just because I publish a
    > commercial replacement to Microsoft's validators makes me suspect? Look,
    > I created a product because I spent time studying the issues and found a


    Nowhere did I state a lack of trust. Im simply looking for secondary
    verifications and or other experiences.



    --
    Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    "Programming is an art form that fights back"


    ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu, Jan 30, 2004
    #15
    1. Advertising

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