content crossing frames

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Jeff Thies, Oct 16, 2004.

  1. Jeff Thies

    Jeff Thies Guest

    I may use a frameset (complex html from more than one domain).

    Can a positioned div (as in a javascript navigation) cross the
    boundaries between two frames? Can a form element?

    I'm thinking no, but I've been wrong before.

    And, of course, I don't like frames.

    Jeff
    Jeff Thies, Oct 16, 2004
    #1
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  2. Jeff Thies

    brucie Guest

    In alt.html Jeff Thies said:

    > I may use a frameset


    you're a bad man!

    > (complex html from more than one domain).


    suck it in with a script, extract what you want, assemble it, send it to
    visitor on a single page.

    (assuming you have permission if the stuff you're sucking in isn't
    yours.)

    > Can a positioned div (as in a javascript navigation)


    using optional goodies such as JS for critical site functions such as
    navigation is stupid.

    > cross the boundaries between two frames?


    no but you can [badly] fake it.

    > Can a form element?


    no

    > I'm thinking no,


    you're thinking right

    > but I've been wrong before.


    not this time. if you ask nicely rf will give you a silver star you can
    stick on your forehead. it could have been gold if it wasn't for the "i
    may use a frameset".

    > And, of course, I don't like frames.


    its too late now, you cant take it back, the damage is done.

    --


    v o i c e s
    brucie, Oct 16, 2004
    #2
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  3. Jeff Thies wrote:

    > I may use a frameset


    Oh dear.

    > (complex html from more than one domain).


    If you start framing content published by third parties then you risk
    opening yourself up to a world of legal hurt. Tread carefully.

    > Can a positioned div (as in a javascript navigation) cross the
    > boundaries between two frames?


    No.

    > Can a form element?


    I think (i.e. I'm not sure) that, in some browsers at least, a <select>
    element can - but only when the user opens it up.

    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
    David Dorward, Oct 16, 2004
    #3
  4. Jeff Thies

    SpaceGirl Guest

    David Dorward wrote:

    > Jeff Thies wrote:
    >
    >
    >> I may use a frameset

    >
    >
    > Oh dear.
    >
    >
    >> (complex html from more than one domain).

    >
    >
    > If you start framing content published by third parties then you risk
    > opening yourself up to a world of legal hurt. Tread carefully.
    >
    >
    >>Can a positioned div (as in a javascript navigation) cross the
    >>boundaries between two frames?

    >
    >
    > No.


    Actually you CAN, but only for iframes. Regular frames you cant. If you
    stick an iframe in a layer (a <div> with a z-index) you can then place
    other layers over the top of it that intersect the boundaries just fine.



    --


    x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

    # lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
    # remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
    SpaceGirl, Oct 16, 2004
    #4
  5. Jeff Thies

    Kris Guest

    In article <jD3cd.6035$>,
    Jeff Thies <> wrote:

    > Can a positioned div (as in a javascript navigation) cross the
    > boundaries between two frames?


    No.

    > Can a form element?


    No.

    Bury a deep hole in your garden to dump the frames in, use a server side
    inclusion solution and CSS for client side appearance. Now you can.

    --
    Kris
    <> (nl)
    Kris, Oct 16, 2004
    #5
  6. Jeff Thies

    Jeff Thies Guest

    brucie wrote:
    > In alt.html Jeff Thies said:
    >
    >
    >> I may use a frameset

    >
    >
    > you're a bad man!


    Badder than you know!
    >
    >
    >>(complex html from more than one domain).

    >
    >
    > suck it in with a script, extract what you want, assemble it, send it to
    > visitor on a single page.
    >
    > (assuming you have permission if the stuff you're sucking in isn't
    > yours.)
    >

    The site is part ASP and on a seperate server. Currently the site is
    being done in a framed manner.

    The server side processing will be a bit complex because the proprietary
    ASP part will have relative paths to a different domain that I will have
    to translate on the fly. That can't be much fun.

    Ever get sucked into something you've tried hard not to do? Or have you
    always been on the other end?

    Jeff
    Jeff Thies, Oct 16, 2004
    #6
  7. Jeff Thies

    aa Guest

    aa, Oct 18, 2004
    #7
  8. Jeff Thies

    rf Guest

    aa wrote:

    > Jeff wrote:


    > Can a positioned div (as in a javascript navigation) cross the
    > > boundaries between two frames?


    > Yes.


    Wrong.

    A div (as in javascript navigation or not) is simply an arbitrary
    rectangular region on the layed out page. Some or all of the contents of
    this region is rendered by the browser in its client window, the viewport.
    The operative point here is "in its client area". The browser (and indeed
    any well behaved windows program) can *not* draw outside its client area.
    Windows (and the other GUIs) does not allow this.

    Now, a frameset is not a single client window. A frameset is many client
    windows, one for each frame. Each frame displays a different HTML page.

    Since each frame is a separate window, with its own border etc, it should be
    evident that a div can not be drawn over two different frames. This would,
    in effect, be drawing parts of the div in two separate windows and, indeed,
    over the non-client area (the border) of those windows. This is not
    something a browser will do.

    Looking at it another way, since each frame is displaying a different HTML
    page where does that div live? Which page? It only lives within one page,
    the one it is drawn in. It can not be partially drawn in a totally different
    HTML page now, can it.

    > See http://dhtml-menu.com/index.html#cross


    Please provide an example of one of these things crossing a frame boundary.

    If you can then I will delve into it a little further and show that it is
    not a simple div but rather some other sort of construct, like a floating
    window, perhaps a dialog.

    Once again, for the newbies: the GUI does not allow one to draw across
    window boundaries. This of course includes frame boundaries in a browser.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Oct 19, 2004
    #8
  9. Jeff Thies

    RobM Guest

    "aa" <> wrote in message
    news:41743b3b$0$47982$...
    > Can a positioned div (as in a javascript navigation) cross the
    > > boundaries between two frames?

    >
    > Yes. See http://dhtml-menu.com/index.html#cross
    >


    Hi - but... seems this doesn't "cross the boundaries" but displays the
    dropdown portion in the other frame (from the link above). Looks awful, I'd
    hate to have that on one of my webapps. Nice explanation about the GUI, rf.
    Imagine if you were writing VB (or Powerbuilder etc), you wouldn't have text
    appearing across two open sheets on a MDI would you!?

    Cheers
    Rob
    RobM, Oct 19, 2004
    #9
  10. Jeff Thies

    aa Guest

    "rf" <rf@.invalid> wrote in message
    news:0EYcd.30994$...
    > Wrong.
    > A div (as in javascript navigation or not) is simply an arbitrary...


    I knew you would not be able to resist byting this bait and indulge into a
    long lecture, rffy :)

    Of course div can't cross frames.
    If you want to "delve into it a little further" - you know where to find the
    source.
    However without dwelving I can tell you that the <div> does not cross
    anything.
    That bit which is supposed to go into another frame is just built in that
    other frame.

    But the OP wanted a solution - a menu, protruding into another frame - and
    this is an indication that it is acheivable, though not very easily.
    aa, Oct 19, 2004
    #10
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