Developing large site in segments?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Phrederik, Sep 16, 2003.

  1. Phrederik

    Phrederik Guest

    I'm currently developing an intranet website that will be used by a single
    department within my company. I'm hoping that this project will lead me to
    develop for other departments, eventually creating one large site for all
    departments to access.

    The site will be developed using Visual Interdev 6.

    I was just wondering what the best way to develop this site would be. I'm
    not looking for anyone to figure out how it all should work, just some
    general design pointers that will allow me, at a later time, to add an extra
    level before the root of my current website.

    Please direct me to another newsgroup if this one isn't appropriate.
    Phrederik, Sep 16, 2003
    #1
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  2. Phrederik

    rf Guest

    "Phrederik" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    news:C2s9b.234$104.201@pd7tw2no...
    > I'm currently developing an intranet website that will be used by a single
    > department within my company. I'm hoping that this project will lead me to
    > develop for other departments, eventually creating one large site for all
    > departments to access.
    >
    > The site will be developed using Visual Interdev 6.


    Ouch.


    > I was just wondering what the best way to develop this site would be. I'm
    > not looking for anyone to figure out how it all should work, just some
    > general design pointers that will allow me, at a later time, to add an

    extra
    > level before the root of my current website.


    If *ALL* of your links and images etc in the site use relative adressing
    then you just bump the current site one level down from the root and add the
    extra level *at* the root.

    example.com/ gets moved to example.com/leaf/
    example.com/ is the new root.
    example.com/departement2/ is the other blokes section

    or have I totally misread the question?

    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Sep 16, 2003
    #2
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  3. Phrederik

    Phrederik Guest

    "rf" <> wrote in message
    news:iss9b.104368$...
    >
    > "Phrederik" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    > news:C2s9b.234$104.201@pd7tw2no...
    > > I'm currently developing an intranet website that will be used by a

    single
    > > department within my company. I'm hoping that this project will lead me

    to
    > > develop for other departments, eventually creating one large site for

    all
    > > departments to access.
    > >
    > > The site will be developed using Visual Interdev 6.

    >
    > Ouch.


    Don't like VI6? It's better than notepad/EMEdit that I have been using.

    I'm using it to keep all my documents/pages grouped together and for the
    code editing.. I won't be using the "design" interface.

    > > I was just wondering what the best way to develop this site would be.

    I'm
    > > not looking for anyone to figure out how it all should work, just some
    > > general design pointers that will allow me, at a later time, to add an

    > extra
    > > level before the root of my current website.

    >
    > If *ALL* of your links and images etc in the site use relative adressing
    > then you just bump the current site one level down from the root and add

    the
    > extra level *at* the root.
    >
    > example.com/ gets moved to example.com/leaf/
    > example.com/ is the new root.
    > example.com/departement2/ is the other blokes section
    >
    > or have I totally misread the question?


    You have it right, more or less... I'm having difficulty describing what I
    mean, which is probably why I'm finding it difficult to design. : )

    I guess I'm wondering about how to develop the navigation. If I were to do
    what you said, then I'd have to be careful with any links and menu's to be
    sure that everything is 100% relative.
    Phrederik, Sep 16, 2003
    #3
  4. Phrederik

    Alex Lyman Guest

    (1) I'll reiterate what rf has said: use relative-pathed links (which is
    probably the best suggestion anyone can make about web design), and show off
    my neurosis while I'm at it. Relative links will always make your life
    much, much, much easier. Especially in your case, where file paths are very
    likly to change over time. While "/index.html" might work well now, what
    happens if you move the site root? Will all your links still go to the
    right pages? Nope. I can't stress this enough. Use relative-pathed links.
    Even on the things that will never, ever, in a million years, move. Even if
    you only have one page, without any links. Use relative-pathed links.

    (2) Use page templates. Using templates will make it 100% easier to make a
    globally navigable site. Just think, without templates, if you add a new
    department, you'd have to go into every single one of the HTML files you
    already have, and add that department to whatever form of navigation you end
    up using. This may not seem bad when working with one department, with
    10-15 pages. But what happens when you have 200 pages? Better use this one
    from the start.
    If you arn't (and don't have access to) a programmer, there are still many
    solutions to this (personally, I've never used VI6, so it might have this
    functionality) -- ranging from the free (In the land of search.cpan.org,
    look up HTML::Mason [which I use]), to the expensive (Dreamweaver UltraDev 4
    [which I also use]). If you are/have a programmer, nothing will beat out a
    custom-built solution to the problem -- all the things you can buy (or
    opensource) will be more general than you really need, and the things you
    will need will be implimented not to your liking.

    (3) Make everything nice and small. Even though i's just for the Intranet
    now, who can say that 6 months down the line, in the biggest show of
    management stupidity your company has ever seen, somebody, somewhere far up
    the latter from you, will deem it appropriate to allow the general public
    access to your Intranet site? While 10Mb pages may cut it on your nice,
    high-speed network, not many in the internet community will be as lucky.

    (4) Assume the people using the site are much, much stupider than they
    appear to be. If every single one of them has a phD in Communication,
    chances are, that atleast 1 of them will not be able to find the "News"
    page. Even if you have a flashing red button that says "NEWS!", that is
    both: half the size of the screen; and makes a loud, blaring sound of you
    yelling "CLICK HERE FOR THE NEWS!" whenever your mouse comes within 10
    pixels of it.

    (5) Don't use IIS. Nomatter what the IT/IS department tells you, it is in
    no way supperior to Apache for Windows. If one of the IT/IS people says "I
    can configure IIS for you," don't let them. If you need to, create your own
    webserver. But, never, ever, use IIS. IIS will not only make you a target
    for almost every Server-Worm in existance, but it will also make your life a
    living hell. 5 months into the project, you'll realize that you need a
    feature, and you'll delve into every resource on IIS you have, and realize
    that IIS3 had it, but IIS5 does not.

    (6) Don't use Front Page Extensions. If you're not following #5, then
    atleast follow the advice of #3. Some day, management will decide that your
    entire company will move from Windows to Macintosh OS X, and you will have
    to redesign the entire site without FPEs. This is much like the problems
    described in #2.

    "Phrederik" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    news:p6t9b.294$104.102@pd7tw2no...
    >
    > "rf" <> wrote in message
    > news:iss9b.104368$...
    > >
    > > "Phrederik" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    > > news:C2s9b.234$104.201@pd7tw2no...
    > > > I'm currently developing an intranet website that will be used by a

    > single
    > > > department within my company. I'm hoping that this project will lead

    me
    > to
    > > > develop for other departments, eventually creating one large site for

    > all
    > > > departments to access.
    > > >
    > > > The site will be developed using Visual Interdev 6.

    > >
    > > Ouch.

    >
    > Don't like VI6? It's better than notepad/EMEdit that I have been using.
    >
    > I'm using it to keep all my documents/pages grouped together and for the
    > code editing.. I won't be using the "design" interface.
    >
    > > > I was just wondering what the best way to develop this site would be.

    > I'm
    > > > not looking for anyone to figure out how it all should work, just some
    > > > general design pointers that will allow me, at a later time, to add an

    > > extra
    > > > level before the root of my current website.

    > >
    > > If *ALL* of your links and images etc in the site use relative adressing
    > > then you just bump the current site one level down from the root and add

    > the
    > > extra level *at* the root.
    > >
    > > example.com/ gets moved to example.com/leaf/
    > > example.com/ is the new root.
    > > example.com/departement2/ is the other blokes section
    > >
    > > or have I totally misread the question?

    >
    > You have it right, more or less... I'm having difficulty describing what I
    > mean, which is probably why I'm finding it difficult to design. : )
    >
    > I guess I'm wondering about how to develop the navigation. If I were to do
    > what you said, then I'd have to be careful with any links and menu's to be
    > sure that everything is 100% relative.
    >
    >



    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 9/1/2003
    Alex Lyman, Sep 17, 2003
    #4
  5. Phrederik

    Phrederik Guest

    "Alex Lyman" <> wrote in message
    news:g1Q9b.5880$...
    > (1) I'll reiterate what rf has said: use relative-pathed links (which is
    > probably the best suggestion anyone can make about web design), and show

    off
    > my neurosis while I'm at it. Relative links will always make your life
    > much, much, much easier.


    Definately will be doing this. Makes the site extremely portable.

    > (2) Use page templates. Using templates will make it 100% easier to make

    a
    > globally navigable site.


    Again, a good idea. I just need to figure out how much detail to go into on
    my template. : )

    > If you arn't (and don't have access to) a programmer, there are still many
    > solutions to this


    I'm a programmer... but not much of one. Dabbled in many languages but
    haven't really mastered any. I'm definately aiming at customer built
    solutions, but I really need to review what's out there due to my lack of
    experience.

    > (3) Make everything nice and small. Even though i's just for the Intranet
    > now, who can say that 6 months down the line, in the biggest show of
    > management stupidity your company has ever seen, somebody, somewhere far

    up
    > the latter from you, will deem it appropriate to allow the general public
    > access to your Intranet site? While 10Mb pages may cut it on your nice,
    > high-speed network, not many in the internet community will be as lucky.


    The current site will never go public, but I definately avoid anything that
    wastes bandwidth. No sounds, minimal graphics, etc.

    > (4) Assume the people using the site are much, much stupider than they
    > appear to be. If every single one of them has a phD in Communication,
    > chances are, that atleast 1 of them will not be able to find the "News"
    > page. Even if you have a flashing red button that says "NEWS!", that is
    > both: half the size of the screen; and makes a loud, blaring sound of you
    > yelling "CLICK HERE FOR THE NEWS!" whenever your mouse comes within 10
    > pixels of it.


    Been there. Done that! : ) I have the luxury of actually working with one
    of the users so the interface will match their actual work patterns as much
    as possible. I also have some experience writing ISO 9000 documentation and
    know that if there is the slightest hint at a question appearing, you must
    already have the answer.

    > (5) Don't use IIS. Nomatter what the IT/IS department tells you, it is in
    > no way supperior to Apache for Windows. If one of the IT/IS people says

    "I
    > can configure IIS for you," don't let them. If you need to, create your

    own
    > webserver. But, never, ever, use IIS. IIS will not only make you a

    target
    > for almost every Server-Worm in existance, but it will also make your life

    a
    > living hell. 5 months into the project, you'll realize that you need a
    > feature, and you'll delve into every resource on IIS you have, and realize
    > that IIS3 had it, but IIS5 does not.


    Unfortunately, it's all I have at the moment. It's been stable for me. I
    have not had any luck getting a consistant Apache installation working. The
    site is also using ASP, which is native to IIS. I don't know if the same is
    true for Apache.

    > (6) Don't use Front Page Extensions. If you're not following #5, then
    > atleast follow the advice of #3. Some day, management will decide that

    your
    > entire company will move from Windows to Macintosh OS X, and you will have
    > to redesign the entire site without FPEs.


    No problem having to redesign the site. Just means a big juicy contract.
    : )

    So far I haven't had the need for any Frontpage stuff. I did have to enable
    FP support on the server for VI6 to publish the sites though.


    The biggest hurdle that I see is that ASP is involved. This means that if I
    drop the current site down one level from the root, the global ASA, etc.
    files will no longer apply. This shouldn't be a problem with a bit more
    thought put into the design though. I'll get this figured out.

    I appreciate the info. Thanks for taking the time!




    > > > > I'm currently developing an intranet website that will be used by a

    > > single
    > > > > department within my company. I'm hoping that this project will lead

    > me
    > > to
    > > > > develop for other departments, eventually creating one large site

    for
    > > all
    > > > > departments to access.
    > > > >
    > > > > The site will be developed using Visual Interdev 6.
    Phrederik, Sep 17, 2003
    #5
  6. Phrederik wrote:

    > Unfortunately, it's all I have at the moment. It's been stable for me. I
    > have not had any luck getting a consistant Apache installation working. The
    > site is also using ASP, which is native to IIS. I don't know if the same is
    > true for Apache.


    There is an ASP module available for Apache 2.x, although I've not tried
    it.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?id=132
    Toby A Inkster, Sep 17, 2003
    #6
  7. Phrederik pounced upon this pigeonhole and pronounced:
    >
    > The biggest hurdle that I see is that ASP is involved. This means that if I
    > drop the current site down one level from the root, the global ASA, etc.
    > files will no longer apply. This shouldn't be a problem with a bit more
    > thought put into the design though. I'll get this figured out.


    Drop all your sites down one level.

    I use W2K IIS5 and asp on my local machine and have several sites, each
    with its own global.asa. Works a champ.

    C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\site1
    C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\site2
    C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\site3 ...

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Sep 18, 2003
    #7
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