First Presentation Posted to Why Ruby!

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by Curt Hibbs, May 13, 2004.

  1. Curt Hibbs

    Curt Hibbs Guest

    Assaph Mehr just posted the first presentation to Why Ruby
    (http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/). Its intended audience is software
    developers. You can download it here:

    http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Ruby_Presentations

    A big thank you to Assaph!

    Also, I know there's got to be many Ruby presentations floating around out
    there, and if you'd like to share, we would love to have them. Remember, you
    will be helping to promote the wider adoption of Ruby.

    I want to make it as easy as possible. You can upload them yourself (see
    instructions below), or you can email them to me (or email me a link).

    Thanks, in advance, for your help.

    Curt

    PS
    To upload them yourself,

    1) Go to http://rubyforge.org/docman/?group_id=251 and click on "Submit New
    Documentation".

    2) If won't show up immediately (I have to approve it first).

    3) Once I have approved and it shows up on the list, I will add a basic
    description and link to our Presentations wiki page. You can the go edit
    this page to embellish the description as you see fit.
     
    Curt Hibbs, May 13, 2004
    #1
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  2. Curt Hibbs

    Phil Tomson Guest

    Presenting a more unified front (Ruby webring?)

    In article <>,
    Curt Hibbs <> wrote:
    >Assaph Mehr just posted the first presentation to Why Ruby
    >(http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/). Its intended audience is software
    >developers. You can download it here:
    >
    > http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Ruby_Presentations
    >
    >A big thank you to Assaph!
    >
    >Also, I know there's got to be many Ruby presentations floating around out
    >there, and if you'd like to share, we would love to have them. Remember, you
    >will be helping to promote the wider adoption of Ruby.
    >
    >I want to make it as easy as possible. You can upload them yourself (see
    >instructions below), or you can email them to me (or email me a link).
    >
    >Thanks, in advance, for your help.
    >
    >Curt
    >


    Curt,

    It's great that you've set this up and it's wonderful that people are
    putting presentations there ( I need to put my OSCON presentation "Ruby
    for Perl Programmers" there), so don't take the following as a criticism.

    When you look at Ruby's web presence it seems very disconnected. There's:
    *http://www.ruby-lang.org (I tend to view this as the official Ruby
    site),
    *RubyGarden (http://www.rubygarden.org) which has a large Wiki of
    Rubystuff.
    *Rubydoc (http://www.rubydoc.org) which is becoming a major source of
    Ruby Documentation.
    *RubyForge (http://www.rubyforge.org) which hosts a lot of Ruby projects
    and WhyRuby?

    ....I'm sure there are others I have missed. Basically, we've got stuff
    all over the place.

    If I were a Ruby Newbie just coming into the language and community I
    think I would find it a bit overwhelming. Where should I start? Is there
    a single source for all of these links? Where should I go for a
    'one-stop' source for all things Ruby?

    Of course, the way we're doing things has it's advantages. If one of the
    sites is down, others will probably still be up.

    Is there any way we can present a more unified front even if in the
    background things are really distributed among several websites?

    Some ideas (not saying they're good ideas, but I'm trying to start a
    discussion):

    * What if all the Ruby sites linked each other, maybe like a webring?

    * What if all the Ruby sites had a similar style so that when you move
    from one to another it looks seamless, even though you're moving to
    different sites?


    Any others?
    Is this really a problem at all?

    Phil
     
    Phil Tomson, May 13, 2004
    #2
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  3. Re: Presenting a more unified front (Ruby webring?)

    > If I were a Ruby Newbie just coming into the language and community I
    > think I would find it a bit overwhelming. Where should I start? Is
    > there
    > a single source for all of these links? Where should I go for a
    > 'one-stop' source for all things Ruby?


    I _am_ a Ruby newbie and am experiencing some major disorientation not
    knowing where to look for stuff.

    I find the lack of a Ruby CPAN equivalent to be the most frustrating
    issue.

    Steve
     
    Stephen Steiner, May 13, 2004
    #3
  4. Curt Hibbs

    Ara.T.Howard Guest

    Re: Presenting a more unified front (Ruby webring?)

    On Fri, 14 May 2004, Stephen Steiner wrote:

    > > If I were a Ruby Newbie just coming into the language and community I
    > > think I would find it a bit overwhelming. Where should I start? Is
    > > there
    > > a single source for all of these links? Where should I go for a
    > > 'one-stop' source for all things Ruby?

    >
    > I _am_ a Ruby newbie and am experiencing some major disorientation not
    > knowing where to look for stuff.
    >
    > I find the lack of a Ruby CPAN equivalent to be the most frustrating
    > issue.


    http://raa.ruby-lang.org


    >
    > Steve
    >
    >
    >
    >


    --
    ===============================================================================
    | EMAIL :: Ara [dot] T [dot] Howard [at] noaa [dot] gov
    | PHONE :: 303.497.6469
    | ADDRESS :: E/GC2 325 Broadway, Boulder, CO 80305-3328
    | URL :: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/stp/
    | TRY :: for l in ruby perl;do $l -e "print \"\x3a\x2d\x29\x0a\"";done
    ===============================================================================
     
    Ara.T.Howard, May 13, 2004
    #4
  5. Curt Hibbs

    James Britt Guest

    Re: Presenting a more unified front (Ruby webring?)

    Phil Tomson wrote:
    > It's great that you've set this up and it's wonderful that people are
    > putting presentations there ( I need to put my OSCON presentation "Ruby
    > for Perl Programmers" there), so don't take the following as a criticism.
    >
    > When you look at Ruby's web presence it seems very disconnected. There's:
    > *http://www.ruby-lang.org (I tend to view this as the official Ruby
    > site),
    > *RubyGarden (http://www.rubygarden.org) which has a large Wiki of
    > Rubystuff.
    > *Rubydoc (http://www.rubydoc.org) which is becoming a major source of
    > Ruby Documentation.
    > *RubyForge (http://www.rubyforge.org) which hosts a lot of Ruby projects
    > and WhyRuby?
    >
    > ....I'm sure there are others I have missed. Basically, we've got stuff
    > all over the place.


    True, but, then again, it's the Web.

    >
    > If I were a Ruby Newbie just coming into the language and community I
    > think I would find it a bit overwhelming. Where should I start? Is there
    > a single source for all of these links? Where should I go for a
    > 'one-stop' source for all things Ruby?


    I would suggest one should go first to ruby-lang.org, which (ideally)
    would give enough direction on where to go next based on a user's needs.

    Whether the site does this well for enough people is open to discussion.

    >
    > Of course, the way we're doing things has it's advantages. If one of the
    > sites is down, others will probably still be up.


    It also means that control and management is distributed; there is no
    core group of site masters responsible for content, design, access,
    hosting fees, and so on.

    For example, ruby-doc.org hosts some files, but largely points to
    resources located elsewhere. Among my current projects is to improve
    the indexing and classification of these resources so that finding
    appropriate documents is easier. To be a better table of
    contents/index/topic map/whatever.

    Now, while I'm happy to host files on ruby-doc.org, doing so doesn't
    really add any value, and may actually make it harder on people since
    they have to go through me to get things up, get files changed or
    deleted, and so on. Same goes for rubyxml.com . These sites act more as
    metadata sites than content sites, though sometimes the content is on
    the same server.

    >
    > Is there any way we can present a more unified front even if in the
    > background things are really distributed among several websites?


    Sure. For example, I would like to see a taxonomy of Ruby web sites,
    something one could navigate as a faceted collection. (Adding such as
    faceted collection is on my growing To Do list for ruby-doc.org.)

    >
    > Some ideas (not saying they're good ideas, but I'm trying to start a
    > discussion):
    >
    > * What if all the Ruby sites linked each other, maybe like a webring?


    It might be simpler to link to common page stored in one (reliable)
    place, something easy to keep up-to-date. Or have something rsync a
    local copy from a common site.

    (It would interesting if sites also published XFML feeds; other sites
    could than, in theory, present aggregated, faceted lists of remote content.)

    >
    > * What if all the Ruby sites had a similar style so that when you move
    > from one to another it looks seamless, even though you're moving to
    > different sites?


    Evil. I might as well use Python if I'm going to have style dictated to
    me.

    >
    >
    > Any others?


    Site designers should make sure they put appropriate metadata into the
    keyword and description meta tags to make the site more accessible to
    search engines. Offering an RSS feed is helpful, too, as it makes it
    easier (for me, at least :) ) to follow a site by adding it to my feed
    aggregator (currently Bloglines).

    Oh, and then add your site to Artima's Ruby Buzz, too.

    http://www.artima.com/buzz/community.jsp?forum=123


    > Is this really a problem at all?



    There may be issues with duplicate effort, but I can't think of any
    examples offhand. Let a thousand flowers bloom and all that.


    James Britt
    www.ruby-doc.org
    www.rubyxml.com
     
    James Britt, May 13, 2004
    #5
  6. Re: Presenting a more unified front (Ruby webring?)

    James Britt wrote:
    > Phil Tomson wrote:
    >> Is this really a problem at all?

    >
    >
    >
    > There may be issues with duplicate effort, but I can't think of any
    > examples offhand. Let a thousand flowers bloom and all that.


    I don't think it's inherently a problem. One thing that would help is to
    have a small panel of 6 or 8 links that appears on each ruby site. The
    links would include the sites people have mentioned in this thread. It
    would be available as an HTML snippet so that everyone could paste it
    into their own pages. The basic look of this panel would be uniform, but
    that wouldn't dictate the look of the sites.

    Unfortunately, I'm a HTML doofus, so I can't even say if "panel" is the
    right word, let alone produce some sample code :(
     
    Joel VanderWerf, May 13, 2004
    #6
  7. Re: Presenting a more unified front (Ruby webring?)

    Yes, raa is OK but the CPAN/cpan program integration with dependency
    support is really handy.

    Steve

    On May 13, 2004, at 5:03 PM, Ara.T.Howard wrote:

    > On Fri, 14 May 2004, Stephen Steiner wrote:
    >
    >>> If I were a Ruby Newbie just coming into the language and community I
    >>> think I would find it a bit overwhelming. Where should I start? Is
    >>> there
    >>> a single source for all of these links? Where should I go for a
    >>> 'one-stop' source for all things Ruby?

    >>
    >> I _am_ a Ruby newbie and am experiencing some major disorientation not
    >> knowing where to look for stuff.
    >>
    >> I find the lack of a Ruby CPAN equivalent to be the most frustrating
    >> issue.

    >
    > http://raa.ruby-lang.org
    >
    >
    >>
    >> Steve
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > --
    > =======================================================================
    > ========
    > | EMAIL :: Ara [dot] T [dot] Howard [at] noaa [dot] gov
    > | PHONE :: 303.497.6469
    > | ADDRESS :: E/GC2 325 Broadway, Boulder, CO 80305-3328
    > | URL :: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/stp/
    > | TRY :: for l in ruby perl;do $l -e "print
    > \"\x3a\x2d\x29\x0a\"";done
    > =======================================================================
    > ========
    >
    >
     
    Stephen Steiner, May 13, 2004
    #7
  8. Re: Presenting a more unified front (Ruby webring?)

    James wrote:
    > > If I were a Ruby Newbie just coming into the language and community I
    > > think I would find it a bit overwhelming. Where should I start? Is

    there
    > > a single source for all of these links? Where should I go for a
    > > 'one-stop' source for all things Ruby?

    >
    > I would suggest one should go first to ruby-lang.org, which (ideally)
    > would give enough direction on where to go next based on a user's needs.
    >
    > Whether the site does this well for enough people is open to discussion.


    It does a pretty good job, but not good enough. It contains quite a few
    links, but they are shoehorned into the tDiary format, and in many cases,
    the best resources are not displayed upfront.

    Solving this is probably as simple as creating a new section in the left
    sidebar called "Welcome User". Under that would exist two links: "Ruby
    Web Resources" and "Community Resources". These would be purpose-written
    articles to give the new (or old) user some context to their browsing.

    I wrote a document (for the "Ruby Documentation Bundle") a long time ago
    to suit this purpose, but didn't really advertise it. You can read it at
    http://rubygarden.org/ruby?GavinSinclair/GettingStartedWithRuby. It is
    now out of date, but not bad nonetheless. I would gladly revise and
    reformat it if this approach were taken.

    What it boils down to is this: there are lots of good Ruby web resources
    now, and Phil is right to point out that it's all a bit confusing. A
    well-known document that addresses this would help. ruby-lang.org should
    be considered the home page, and every significant Ruby page should
    (already) link there. Therefore, the "roadmap" document should be hosted,
    and well promoted, on ruby-lang.org.

    # Aside: every good project has a good FAQ. Ruby's FAQ should be better
    # organised, readable as a single document, and better promoted.

    Cheers,
    Gavin
     
    Gavin Sinclair, May 14, 2004
    #8
  9. Curt Hibbs

    Dave Burt Guest

    Top work, contributers: Why Ruby! and the related more unified front thread
    will
    grow and strengthen the Ruby community and help people get paid to use it.

    Regarding Why Ruby presentations, there's a link to SegPhault's post
    ruby-talk:99964 on
    http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Ruby_Language_Talk_By_Assaph_Mehr
    but I consider that there's probably enough material in that post alone (not
    to
    mention its follow-ups by the same author) to justify its inclusion on
    ?Ruby_Presentations even in its present form. Agree/disagree?

    Of course it'd be great if SegPhault would draw them together, as I believe
    he
    suggested he was doing.

    Cheers,
    Dave

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Curt Hibbs" <>
    Newsgroups: comp.lang.ruby
    Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:12 AM
    Subject: First Presentation Posted to Why Ruby!


    > Assaph Mehr just posted the first presentation to Why Ruby
    > (http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/). Its intended audience is software
    > developers. You can download it here:
    >
    > http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Ruby_Presentations
    >
    > A big thank you to Assaph!
    >
    > Also, I know there's got to be many Ruby presentations floating around out
    > there, and if you'd like to share, we would love to have them. Remember,

    you
    > will be helping to promote the wider adoption of Ruby.

    <snip>

    "Curt Hibbs" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Assaph Mehr just posted the first presentation to Why Ruby
    > (http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/). Its intended audience is software
    > developers. You can download it here:
    >
    > http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Ruby_Presentations
    >
    > A big thank you to Assaph!
    >
    > Also, I know there's got to be many Ruby presentations floating around out
    > there, and if you'd like to share, we would love to have them. Remember,

    you
    > will be helping to promote the wider adoption of Ruby.

    <snip>
     
    Dave Burt, May 14, 2004
    #9
  10. il Thu, 13 May 2004 23:12:04 +0900, "Curt Hibbs" <> ha
    scritto::

    >Assaph Mehr just posted the first presentation to Why Ruby
    >(http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/). Its intended audience is software
    >developers. You can download it here:
    >



    a little thing: could the wiki be switched to a ruby one before it
    grows too large ?
    Trying to say that ruby is wonderful from a perl cgi is somehow
    strange :/
     
    gabriele renzi, May 14, 2004
    #10
  11. Curt Hibbs

    Dave Burt Guest

    And a Ruby web server?

    "gabriele renzi" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > il Thu, 13 May 2004 23:12:04 +0900, "Curt Hibbs" <> ha
    > scritto::
    >
    > >Assaph Mehr just posted the first presentation to Why Ruby
    > >(http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/). Its intended audience is software
    > >developers. You can download it here:
    > >

    >
    >
    > a little thing: could the wiki be switched to a ruby one before it
    > grows too large ?
    > Trying to say that ruby is wonderful from a perl cgi is somehow
    > strange :/
     
    Dave Burt, May 15, 2004
    #11
  12. Curt Hibbs

    James Britt Guest

    Dave Burt wrote:

    >>a little thing: could the wiki be switched to a ruby one before it
    >>grows too large ?
    >>Trying to say that ruby is wonderful from a perl cgi is somehow
    >>strange :/

    >
    > And a Ruby web server?



    Well, that would be nice, but there is something to be said for eating
    your own dog food.

    James
     
    James Britt, May 15, 2004
    #12
  13. il Sat, 15 May 2004 03:54:21 GMT, "Dave Burt" <> ha
    scritto::

    >And a Ruby web server?


    well, RAA runs on webrick and works fine :)
    And, did I say 'why is ruby-lang.org run from :
    Written by
    Generated by tDiary version 1.5.6.20040315
    Powered by Ruby version 1.6.7
    '

    1.6.7 ??
     
    gabriele renzi, May 15, 2004
    #13
  14. Curt Hibbs

    Dave Burt Guest

    See -- Ruby was even great back at version 1.6.7!


    "gabriele renzi" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > il Sat, 15 May 2004 03:54:21 GMT, "Dave Burt" <> ha
    > scritto::
    >
    > >And a Ruby web server?

    >
    > well, RAA runs on webrick and works fine :)
    > And, did I say 'why is ruby-lang.org run from :
    > Written by
    > Generated by tDiary version 1.5.6.20040315
    > Powered by Ruby version 1.6.7
    > '
    >
    > 1.6.7 ??
     
    Dave Burt, May 15, 2004
    #14
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