Font Embedding in HTML

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Bassam A. Jarad, Oct 28, 2003.

  1. Hi All,

    My application creates HTML files at run-time and I wish to add font
    embedding support to it. i.e., to create HTML documents with embedded
    fonts (relying on PFR font files) but I have two problems:

    1. WebFont Maker is no longer supported by bitstream
    www.bitstream.com, how can I get a copy of this app. or atleast get
    similar one.
    2. I want to create .PFR files at runtime, can WebFont Maker work from
    command line ? if it can't, is there another one that can ?

    Finally can MS WEFT work from command line ? if it does, how can I use
    it from there?

    best regards.
    Bassam A. Jarad
    Bassam A. Jarad, Oct 28, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Bassam A. Jarad

    Nick Howes Guest

    "Bassam A. Jarad" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > 1. WebFont Maker is no longer supported by bitstream
    > www.bitstream.com, how can I get a copy of this app. or atleast get
    > similar one.
    > 2. I want to create .PFR files at runtime, can WebFont Maker work from
    > command line ? if it can't, is there another one that can ?


    I guess you have a lot of fonts to convert if you want them to go at
    runtime. A font gallery? Why not instead generate images of the fonts on
    runtime, with some server script like php, it'll probably turn out quicker
    and be far more likely to actually work. Of course I'm just assuming the
    nature of your website, I could be wrong.
    Nick Howes, Oct 28, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Bassam A. Jarad

    DU Guest

    Bassam A. Jarad wrote:

    > Hi All,
    >
    > My application creates HTML files at run-time and I wish to add font
    > embedding support to it.


    Why would you need to add embedded fonts to dynamically generated html
    files? Can you elaborate on your website context, requirements,
    analysis? I'm sure you must have good reasons and justifications for
    such precise and demanding requirements.

    i.e., to create HTML documents with embedded
    > fonts (relying on PFR font files) but I have two problems:
    >


    ..pfr are only supported by certain versions of NS 4. .pfr development
    softwares have stopped being developed and released since Netscape corp.
    stopped supporting .pfr and that was a long time ago..

    > 1. WebFont Maker is no longer supported by bitstream
    > www.bitstream.com, how can I get a copy of this app. or atleast get
    > similar one.


    Have you searched google.com on this? Have you searched comp.fonts
    newsgroup archives on this?

    > 2. I want to create .PFR files at runtime, can WebFont Maker work from
    > command line ? if it can't, is there another one that can ?
    >
    > Finally can MS WEFT work from command line ? if it does, how can I use
    > it from there?
    >
    > best regards.
    > Bassam A. Jarad


    There may be a solution to your webpage situation but without
    understanding the matters related to your website context, it's pretty
    difficult.

    DU
    --
    Javascript and Browser bugs:
    http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/
    - Resources, help and tips for Netscape 7.x users and Composer
    - Interactive demos on Popup windows, music (audio/midi) in Netscape 7.x
    http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/Netscape7/Netscape7Section.html
    DU, Oct 28, 2003
    #3
  4. DU <> wrote in message news:<bnlqep$kvi$>...
    > Bassam A. Jarad wrote:
    >
    > > Hi All,
    > >
    > > My application creates HTML files at run-time and I wish to add font
    > > embedding support to it.

    >
    > Why would you need to add embedded fonts to dynamically generated html
    > files? Can you elaborate on your website context, requirements,
    > analysis? I'm sure you must have good reasons and justifications for
    > such precise and demanding requirements.
    >
    > i.e., to create HTML documents with embedded
    > > fonts (relying on PFR font files) but I have two problems:
    > >

    >
    > .pfr are only supported by certain versions of NS 4. .pfr development
    > softwares have stopped being developed and released since Netscape corp.
    > stopped supporting .pfr and that was a long time ago..
    >
    > > 1. WebFont Maker is no longer supported by bitstream
    > > www.bitstream.com, how can I get a copy of this app. or atleast get
    > > similar one.

    >
    > Have you searched google.com on this? Have you searched comp.fonts
    > newsgroup archives on this?
    >
    > > 2. I want to create .PFR files at runtime, can WebFont Maker work from
    > > command line ? if it can't, is there another one that can ?
    > >
    > > Finally can MS WEFT work from command line ? if it does, how can I use
    > > it from there?
    > >
    > > best regards.
    > > Bassam A. Jarad

    >
    > There may be a solution to your webpage situation but without
    > understanding the matters related to your website context, it's pretty
    > difficult.
    >
    > DU


    I noticed that .PFR files are no longer supported in Netscape 6. The
    only reason that I made PFR as my choice for font embedding is to
    enable Netscape users to view my files correctly. I'm not sure now if
    I should go back to WEFT .EOT files.

    I have an application, which creates HTML documents for my users
    depending on their data. My application needs to embed fonts which are
    being used in the HTML document to make sure it will be viewed
    correctly anywhere. I don't know which fonts will be used in my
    document; I didn't put any limits on this.

    I have some choices to solve my font-embedding problem:
    1. Find a command-line utility/SDK to create this kind of fonts (to be
    embedded).
    2. Understand the format of the .EOT font and create it myself.
    3. Rasterize the font and insert the characters as images inside the
    document, but I don't prefer this solution. I want users to be able to
    search the document.

    Any ideas?
    Bassam A. Jarad, Oct 29, 2003
    #4
  5. (Bassam A. Jarad) wrote:

    > My application needs to embed fonts which are
    > being used in the HTML document to make sure it will be viewed
    > correctly anywhere.


    Then your application needs the impossible.

    Not all browsers support embedded fonts at all, and those that do, allow
    (thank &Deity;) the user to switch them off (perhaps still allowing pages to
    set the font _otherwise_).

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
    Jukka K. Korpela, Oct 29, 2003
    #5
  6. Bassam A. Jarad wrote:

    > I have an application, which creates HTML documents for my users
    > depending on their data.


    Sounds like it should be creating PDF documents.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?id=132
    Toby A Inkster, Oct 29, 2003
    #6
  7. Andreas Prilop, Oct 29, 2003
    #7
  8. Bassam A. Jarad

    DU Guest

    Toby A Inkster wrote:
    > Bassam A. Jarad wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I have an application, which creates HTML documents for my users
    >>depending on their data.

    >
    >
    > Sounds like it should be creating PDF documents.
    >


    Exactly what I thought too!

    DU
    --
    Javascript and Browser bugs:
    http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/
    - Resources, help and tips for Netscape 7.x users and Composer
    - Interactive demos on Popup windows, music (audio/midi) in Netscape 7.x
    http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/Netscape7/Netscape7Section.html
    DU, Oct 29, 2003
    #8
  9. Bassam A. Jarad

    DU Guest

    Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

    > (Bassam A. Jarad) wrote:
    >
    >
    >>My application needs to embed fonts which are
    >>being used in the HTML document to make sure it will be viewed
    >>correctly anywhere.

    >
    >
    > Then your application needs the impossible.


    or PDF editing. Borware company was embedding dynamically custom fonts
    on the server and tuning the code so that browsers could render the
    pages accordingly. 2 years ago, Borware had its pages on this and was
    advertizing their server Fairy software. It was working for almost all
    browsers. I think their product was costing too much and the
    relevance/use for such product is mostly a stylistic issue of secondary
    importance ; I don't see the product anymore.
    Btw, Borware was the original company which was hired by Microsoft to do
    WEFT and build .eot files.

    >
    > Not all browsers support embedded fonts at all,


    MSIE 5+ for windows: so, that's at least 80% of all users out there.
    I believe MSIE 5.x for Mac also support .eot but I could be wrong.

    and those that do, allow
    > (thank &Deity;) the user to switch them off


    Correct. In MSIE 6 for windows, it's
    Tools/Internet Options.../Security tab/Internet Content Zone selected
    and then click Custom level... button/Downloads section/Font
    download/Disable radio button

    There is a security issue involved as downloading a font and installing
    it temporary in the os could have who knows what (virus, spyware, trojan).

    That's why bugzilla has
    - Bug 86525: No option to disable font downloads
    http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86525
    which has a clear impact on
    Bug 70132: downloadable font support via font-face
    where you can read my comment:
    http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70132#c31

    There is also a copyright issue for font creators.

    Besides the enormous complexity, care and time implementing downloadable
    and installable custom fonts would represent in Mozilla, there is
    another reason why obviously Mozilla won't support dynamic fonts in the
    near or middle term/future. It's more relevant to work on supporting
    Unicode:

    "Downloadable fonts are usually used on sites using writing systems for
    which proper support has been missing in browsers in the past. These
    sites (for example some Indian sites) code the text in Latin gibberish
    and then use a font that to the browser and operating system seems to be
    a Latin font but has eg. Devanagari glyphs, so that when the Latin
    gibberish is rendered with the font it seems to a human reader to be
    intelligible text in some language."

    Here's a live example of such problem:

    http://npc.nunavut.ca/inuktitut/graphics/click.gif

    http://www.nunavut.com/technology/english/download.html

    "(...) Instead of providing support for downloadable fonts, Mozilla is
    addressing the real issue: support for various Unicode ranges."

    http://www.mozilla.org/docs/web-developer/faq.html#downloadablefonts

    (perhaps still allowing pages to
    > set the font _otherwise_).
    >


    Yep! User stylesheet with !important declarations. This time in MSIE 6
    for windows it's
    Tools/Internet Options/General tab/Accessibility... button/User style
    sheet/Format documents using my style sheet/Browse button

    DU
    --
    Javascript and Browser bugs:
    http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/
    - Resources, help and tips for Netscape 7.x users and Composer
    - Interactive demos on Popup windows, music (audio/midi) in Netscape 7.x
    http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/Netscape7/Netscape7Section.html
    DU, Oct 29, 2003
    #9
  10. Bassam A. Jarad

    DU Guest

    Bassam A. Jarad wrote:

    > DU <> wrote in message news:<bnlqep$kvi$>...
    >
    >>Bassam A. Jarad wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Hi All,
    >>>
    >>>My application creates HTML files at run-time and I wish to add font
    >>>embedding support to it.

    >>
    >>Why would you need to add embedded fonts to dynamically generated html
    >>files? Can you elaborate on your website context, requirements,
    >>analysis? I'm sure you must have good reasons and justifications for
    >>such precise and demanding requirements.
    >>
    >>i.e., to create HTML documents with embedded
    >>
    >>>fonts (relying on PFR font files) but I have two problems:
    >>>

    >>
    >>.pfr are only supported by certain versions of NS 4. .pfr development
    >>softwares have stopped being developed and released since Netscape corp.
    >>stopped supporting .pfr and that was a long time ago..
    >>
    >>
    >>>1. WebFont Maker is no longer supported by bitstream
    >>>www.bitstream.com, how can I get a copy of this app. or atleast get
    >>>similar one.

    >>
    >>Have you searched google.com on this? Have you searched comp.fonts
    >>newsgroup archives on this?
    >>
    >>
    >>>2. I want to create .PFR files at runtime, can WebFont Maker work from
    >>>command line ? if it can't, is there another one that can ?
    >>>
    >>>Finally can MS WEFT work from command line ? if it does, how can I use
    >>>it from there?
    >>>
    >>>best regards.
    >>>Bassam A. Jarad

    >>
    >>There may be a solution to your webpage situation but without
    >>understanding the matters related to your website context, it's pretty
    >>difficult.
    >>
    >>DU

    >
    >
    > I noticed that .PFR files are no longer supported in Netscape 6.


    They never were supported in NS 6. The only ones were NS 4.7x.

    The
    > only reason that I made PFR as my choice for font embedding is to
    > enable Netscape users to view my files correctly.


    "correctly"? This sounds like over-excessive control of layout rendering
    to me. I was expecting, hoping, praying your webpage requirements were
    language community needs based (community culture and language
    struggling), say, e.g., for the US Indian-American Cherookee community.

    I'm not sure now if
    > I should go back to WEFT .EOT files.
    >
    > I have an application, which creates HTML documents for my users
    > depending on their data. My application needs to embed fonts which are
    > being used in the HTML document to make sure it will be viewed
    > correctly anywhere. I don't know which fonts will be used in my
    > document; I didn't put any limits on this.
    >


    You're just repeating what your original post was saying. You're still
    not explaining your website context, why's, no url, no presentation of
    your real website situation.

    > I have some choices to solve my font-embedding problem:
    > 1. Find a command-line utility/SDK to create this kind of fonts (to be
    > embedded).
    > 2. Understand the format of the .EOT font and create it myself.
    > 3. Rasterize the font and insert the characters as images inside the
    > document, but I don't prefer this solution. I want users to be able to
    > search the document.
    >
    > Any ideas?


    Contact Borware (if they still exist; last time I heard of them, they
    were located in Sweden I believe) and pay them for their server software
    ($200. US or so IIRC). If you do that, then even NS 4, NS 6, NS 7 and a
    wide range of browsers will do whatever you wanted to do.

    DU
    --
    Javascript and Browser bugs:
    http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/
    - Resources, help and tips for Netscape 7.x users and Composer
    - Interactive demos on Popup windows, music (audio/midi) in Netscape 7.x
    http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/Netscape7/Netscape7Section.html
    DU, Oct 29, 2003
    #10
  11. Bassam A. Jarad

    DU Guest

    >
    > Here's a live example of such problem:
    >
    > http://npc.nunavut.ca/inuktitut/graphics/click.gif
    >


    From this page:

    http://npc.nunavut.ca/inuktitut/index.html

    > http://www.nunavut.com/technology/english/download.html
    >
    > "(...) Instead of providing support for downloadable fonts, Mozilla is
    > addressing the real issue: support for various Unicode ranges."
    >
    > http://www.mozilla.org/docs/web-developer/faq.html#downloadablefonts
    >


    DU
    --
    Javascript and Browser bugs:
    http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/
    - Resources, help and tips for Netscape 7.x users and Composer
    - Interactive demos on Popup windows, music (audio/midi) in Netscape 7.x
    http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/Netscape7/Netscape7Section.html
    DU, Oct 29, 2003
    #11
  12. DU <> wrote in message news:<bnp6uj$gmo$>...
    > Toby A Inkster wrote:
    > > Bassam A. Jarad wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >>I have an application, which creates HTML documents for my users
    > >>depending on their data.

    > >
    > >
    > > Sounds like it should be creating PDF documents.
    > >

    >
    > Exactly what I thought too!
    >
    > DU


    I didn't think this would be important, anyway:

    I'm doing a conversion from PDF=>HTML and facing the problem of
    embedded fonts. When converting from PDF to HTML, some embedded fonts
    should be taken as they are and embedded in the HTML document to get
    the correct output result. Otherwise, the output will be garbage. So
    I'm trying to convert the TrueType fonts, which result from parsing
    the PDF file to .PFR or .EOT files dynamically in order to be able to
    embed them in HTML. That's exactly what I'm trying to do.

    There's an SDK from Microsoft at
    http://www.microsoft.com/typography/embed/sdk.htm
    Which can help to create such files, but unfortunately, I'm unable to
    get it. MS guys do no respond to my messages.

    I think I'll try to follow the link of Borware. It's the only choice
    that I have now.

    Bassam A. Jarad
    Bassam A. Jarad, Oct 30, 2003
    #12
  13. Bassam A. Jarad

    sti.creative

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1
    sti.creative, Sep 10, 2007
    #13
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. =?Utf-8?B?Tmlja3k=?=
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    710
    Matt Berther
    Feb 20, 2005
  2. Replies:
    0
    Views:
    676
  3. mttc
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    2,391
    Roedy Green
    Jul 3, 2009
  4. Stéphane Klein
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    1,759
    John Nagle
    Mar 30, 2010
  5. Stefan Behnel
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    487
    Stefan Behnel
    Mar 29, 2010
Loading...

Share This Page