frameset in visual studio 2005

[Ivar]

Hi there,

I'm working on creating a web page having two sections. The top one does not
change (it loads the data from a database once) and the second section has
two possible schemas (it's actually two different pages). The solution I have
found is to create two horizontal frames and set the first page as the source
for the first frame and then programmatically change the source for the
second frame to display one of the other two possible pages.
I have seen VS 2005 does not have a frameset control and I had to add it
manually in the aspx file. My questions are:

1) Why VS2005 does not have support for the <frameset><frame> control?
2) Is it possible to accomplish this result with a different aproach with no
frames?
3) Is the use of frameset an outdated practice? If yes why?
4) What's the difference between frame and iframe? Is it's use a good
practice?

Thank you very much,
Ivar

 

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

1) Why VS2005 does not have support for the <frameset><frame> control?

It is supported like every other piece of HTML is supported...

2) Is it possible to accomplish this result with a different aproach with
no
frames?

MasterPages create a similar sort of effect as framesets, although
architecturally they are very different - MasterPages are UserControls, and
the entire page gets rebuilt every time the content page changes...

3) Is the use of frameset an outdated practice?

Depends which particular "guru" you ask...

If yes why?
http://apptools.com/rants/framesevil.php
http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200411/who_framed_the_web_frames_and_usability/
http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257936&highlight=frames

4) What's the difference between frame and iframe?

Frames need to live within a frameset (OK, that's not 100% accurate) but
iframes are inline frames which mean that they live within the main page and
allow independent content.

Is its use a good practice?

There's no real need for them any more, IMO, especially with the advent of
AJAX which supports updating of page sections via callback without needing
to postback the entire page...

 

[Ivar]

Thank you. I did not find an explanation like yours before, this is why I
posted it here. Thanks again.

Ivar

 

[Hal Rosser]

Hi there,

I'm working on creating a web page having two sections. The top one does
not
change (it loads the data from a database once) and the second section has
two possible schemas (it's actually two different pages). The solution I
have
found is to create two horizontal frames and set the first page as the
source
for the first frame and then programmatically change the source for the
second frame to display one of the other two possible pages.
I have seen VS 2005 does not have a frameset control and I had to add it
manually in the aspx file. My questions are:

1) Why VS2005 does not have support for the <frameset><frame> control?
2) Is it possible to accomplish this result with a different aproach with
no
frames?
3) Is the use of frameset an outdated practice? If yes why?
4) What's the difference between frame and iframe? Is it's use a good
practice?

Thank you very much,
Ivar

I believe the W3C is deprecating frames, framesets, and Iframes in favor of
using div tags and css.
xhtml is (slowly) replacing html.

 

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

I believe the W3C is deprecating frames, framesets, and Iframes in favor
of using div tags and css.

How did you arrive at that conclusion...?
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/present/frames.html
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/sgml/framesetdtd.html
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/dtds.html#a_dtd_XHTML-1.0-Frameset
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstract_modules.html#s_framesmodule

xhtml is (slowly) replacing html.

Depends who you talk to:
http://www.webdevout.net/articles/beware-of-xhtml

 

[Hal Rosser]

How did you arrive at that conclusion...?
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/present/frames.html
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/sgml/framesetdtd.html
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/dtds.html#a_dtd_XHTML-1.0-Frameset
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstract_modules.html#s_framesmodule



Depends who you talk to:
http://www.webdevout.net/articles/beware-of-xhtml

You may be right.
Can you use frames in a valid html strict DTD ?
I just go by what I read and hear.
If you say it ain't so - and you have that MVP title- then I must believe
you.
Why are there rumors that frames are being deprecated?

here's a link you might like
http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/html/doctype.html#strict
and here's one from the w3c http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/index/elements.html
have fun

 

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

Can you use frames in a valid html strict DTD ?

HTML 4.01 has three DTDs:

HTML 4.01 Strict DTD includes all elements and attributes that have not been
deprecated or do not appear in frameset documents.

HTML 4.01 Transitional DTD includes everything in the strict DTD plus
deprecated elements and attributes.

HTML 4.01 Frameset DTD includes everything in the transitional DTD plus
elements and attributes for creating frames. If frames are avoided, there is
no need to use this DTD.

Why are there rumors that frames are being deprecated?

I have no idea...

here's a link you might like
http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/html/doctype.html#strict
and here's one from the w3c
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/index/elements.html

What am I supposed to learn from those...?

 

[Hal Rosser]

HTML 4.01 has three DTDs:

HTML 4.01 Strict DTD includes all elements and attributes that have not
been deprecated or do not appear in frameset documents.

HTML 4.01 Transitional DTD includes everything in the strict DTD plus
deprecated elements and attributes.

HTML 4.01 Frameset DTD includes everything in the transitional DTD plus
elements and attributes for creating frames. If frames are avoided, there
is no need to use this DTD.



I have no idea...



What am I supposed to learn from those...?

** That Strict DTD is the only DTD that does not allow deprecated tags.
** Strict DTD does not allow frames.
therefore : yes, lets hear it - frames will be going away as the industry
moves to strict DTD.

The transitional DTD and the frameset DTD allow deprecated tags, but the
strict DTD does not, right?
The Strict DTD does not allow framesets, right?
Deprecated tags should not be used because the support for those tags will
eventually go away, right?
Shouldn't one expect that when the deprecated tags go away, so will the DTDs
that allow them?
Since the frameset DTD is one of those DTDs that allow deprecated tags, then
it will probably go away.
The end

 

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

The transitional DTD and the frameset DTD allow deprecated tags, but the
strict DTD does not, right?

The frameset DTD is an extension of the transitional DTD which includes
frames.

The Strict DTD does not allow framesets, right?

Right - that's what the frameset DTD is for...

Deprecated tags should not be used because the support for those tags will
eventually go away, right?

There are eleven tags which are deprecated in the strict DTD: APPLET,
BASEFONT, CENTER, DIR, FONT, IFRAME, ISINDEX, MENU, S, STRIKE, and U. They
will eventually be removed from the frameset DTD too. However, the frameset
DTD itself will remain for the forseeable future, specifically to support
frames - that's what it's for...

Shouldn't one expect that when the deprecated tags go away, so will the
DTDs that allow them?

The transitional DTD will eventually disappear leaving only strict DTD and
frameset DTD.

Since the frameset DTD is one of those DTDs that allow deprecated tags,
then it will probably go away.

It will remain as long as the strict DTD - both will eventually be replaced
by newer standards...