Ghost icon on server

[dorayme]

Anyone had the prob of a blank icon appearing in a folder on the
server which cannot be deleted because it is not seen by some
process?

FTP Error: /www/website/gallery/thumbs/Icon: No such file or
directory (Icon)

and this stops the whole folder from being deleted?

It has happened a few times to me and I never really know what to
do... I just ignore it and hope it goes away. Anyone a clue as to
what to do besides not worrying, contacting the server people or
renaming (this latter can't be done because it is officially not
there though I see them in my FTP program. I have 4 of these half
existing things. Who said that existence was binary?

 

[cwdjrxyz]

Anyone had the prob of a blank icon appearing in a folder on the
server which cannot be deleted because it is not seen by some
process?

FTP Error: /www/website/gallery/thumbs/Icon: No such file or
directory (Icon)

and this stops the whole folder from being deleted?

It has happened a few times to me and I never really know what to
do... I just ignore it and hope it goes away. Anyone a clue as to
what to do besides not worrying, contacting the server people or
renaming (this latter can't be done because it is officially not
there though I see them in my FTP program. I have 4 of these half
existing things. Who said that existence was binary?

Ghosts can happen on a computer as well as a server. You only have a
ghost icon. I have a ghost movie on my computer. The computer crashed
for some unknow reason when I was processing an about 4 GB movie mpg
file. After starting again, there was a directory with a movie file
where it should be. However the movie file was of unknown type and of
zero size. The computer would not allow you to delete either the
directory or the ghost movie and would say that the file could not be
found on the HD. Renaming, etc did not help. I am on Windows XP with
all of the updates. A system restore did not help. When you clean up
the C HD and defrag, everything defrags except several fragments for
the ghost movie, and the computer still thinks it has an about 4 GB
file stored on the HD. The only sure way I know to solve this problem
is to completely erase the HD and reinstall everything. I am not that
desperate to solve the problem which is doing no harm. Of course, on
the server you use, you likely do not have this option unless you own
the server. Hopefully someone else has had experience with ghosts on a
server or computer and can describe how they solved the problem.

 

[Jim Moe]

Anyone had the prob of a blank icon appearing in a folder on the
server which cannot be deleted because it is not seen by some
process?

Is this your server? You have root/admin access to it?

FTP Error: /www/website/gallery/thumbs/Icon: No such file or
directory (Icon)

and this stops the whole folder from being deleted?

How are you doing this with HTML?
This sounds like an operating system problem, or possibly a HTTP server
configuration error.

 

[Leonard Blaisdell]

It has happened a few times to me and I never really know what to
do... I just ignore it and hope it goes away. Anyone a clue as to
what to do besides not worrying, contacting the server people or
renaming (this latter can't be done because it is officially not
there though I see them in my FTP program. I have 4 of these half
existing things. Who said that existence was binary?

Have you tried sending up a real file of the same name to replace the
bogus one and then attempting to delete that? It's maybe something to
try.

leo

 

[dorayme]

Is this your server? You have root/admin access to it?

Not my server

How are you doing this with HTML?

Doing what? In HTML? I load and upload things with an FTP program

This sounds like an operating system problem, or possibly a HTTP server
configuration error.

I have had this before with a completely different server and had
to ask the server people to delete it. I never got any feedback,
they just said they had deleted it and it was indeed gone. It
happens when I delete or try to delete folders. Now and again,
one or more folders on the server spring this ghost as content
and as a consequence refuse to be deleted.

 

[Steven Saunderson]

I have had this before with a completely different server and had
to ask the server people to delete it. I never got any feedback,
they just said they had deleted it and it was indeed gone.

It is possible to get undeletable (using FTP) files if you create files
using PHP. The PHP created files have the Apache UID and if the
permissions are restricted then deletion via FTP will fail because FTP
will be using your account UID. Can you check the permissions and UID
of the files to see if they match those of files you have uploaded ?

HTH

 

[cwdjrxyz]

Not my server



Doing what? In HTML? I load and upload things with an FTP program


I have had this before with a completely different server and had
to ask the server people to delete it. I never got any feedback,
they just said they had deleted it and it was indeed gone. It
happens when I delete or try to delete folders. Now and again,
one or more folders on the server spring this ghost as content
and as a consequence refuse to be deleted.

On my server, I only once have had something that would not delete.
However it was not a ghost, but a file that I created. When you set up
ftp for others to download from, a special high level file is set up to
handle the ftp downloads for pages you wish others to download. This
file only has a number given to it by the program reached from the
control panel that sets up the ftp. I changed my mind about what I
wanted to do and tried to delete the special folder. However you just
get messages that the folder can not be deleted. I called the host
company, and they said they could do it. However I must send them the
file number I wanted deleted by email. I did this, and within 30
minutes the file was gone. I guess they were trying to protect their
backside by having the request for deletion in writing.

 

[dorayme]

It is possible to get undeletable (using FTP) files if you create files
using PHP. The PHP created files have the Apache UID and if the
permissions are restricted then deletion via FTP will fail because FTP
will be using your account UID. Can you check the permissions and UID
of the files to see if they match those of files you have uploaded ?

They are from folders that had html files and pics, nothing to do
with PHP. They have the same permissions as all the other files
that really have full existence.

(Fancy it being the case that something that truly exists can be
so easily extinguished while some thing that only half exists
cannot be.)

 

[dorayme]

Have you tried sending up a real file of the same name to replace the
bogus one and then attempting to delete that? It's maybe something to
try.

leo

Tried this just now, Leo. It results in two files with exactly
the same name appearing on the server - rather than one replacing
the other. The one just uploaded is easily able to be deleted,
the other one remains as stubbornly there (or half there!) as
ever.

 

[Leonard Blaisdell]

Tried this just now, Leo. It results in two files with exactly
the same name appearing on the server - rather than one replacing
the other. The one just uploaded is easily able to be deleted,
the other one remains as stubbornly there (or half there!) as
ever.

What type of server are you having the problem with? If it's Apache on
*nix, I'm pretty sure I know how to delete everything in my account or
yours if you give me the password ;-) If you are served by IIS, I have
no clue.
I see this has been labeled [OT] by someone. I've always thought of
upload and deletion of files on a server to be integral to HTML. And
FFS, this is alt and not comp.

leo

 

[dorayme]

What type of server are you having the problem with? If it's Apache on
*nix,

It's a Unix server... I don't know more just now.

I'm pretty sure I know how to delete everything in my account or
yours if you give me the password ;-)

Can't give out passwords old chum as it is on a client of mine's
web hosting service. But deleting everything is not quite what I
had in mind! I'd rather leave ghosts about!

I see this has been labeled [OT] by someone. I've always thought of
upload and deletion of files on a server to be integral to HTML. And
FFS, this is alt and not comp.

You seeing things i am not seeing? Who dared to say it was OT?
Have people got the ability to reverse killfile? That is, make
their posts invisible to individual earthlings and martians?

 

[Steven Saunderson]

They are from folders that had html files and pics, nothing to do
with PHP. They have the same permissions as all the other files
that really have full existence.

Since you say you have seen this before it might be caused by your FTP
program. Maybe it creates a dummy file whose name has a trailing space.
Can you supply a URL for the directory and enable Indexes so nosy (but
helpful) bods can see what Apache lists ?

 

[dorayme]

Since you say you have seen this before it might be caused by your FTP
program. Maybe it creates a dummy file whose name has a trailing space.
Can you supply a URL for the directory and enable Indexes so nosy (but
helpful) bods can see what Apache lists ?

I am not quite sure what you are asking me to supply? To see what
is on a server, you need passwords and user names... I feel
unlicensed to do this as it is a customer of mine. But what
should I look for, I will pass control to you lot, I will be your
robot. Direct me masters....

 

[Jim Moe]

Doing what? In HTML? I load and upload things with an FTP program

Well, this is a HTML newsgroup. I presumed you are doing something
unusual with a browser via HTML , or PHP, or....
I would suspect the FTP program. The FTP program sounds GUI-ish. It may
be keeping a cache or local copy that no longer jives with reality.
You gave so few details I cannot even guess the OS. And is this a
standalone FTP program or part of a larger one?

This sounds like an operating system problem, or possibly a HTTP server
configuration error.

I have had this before with a completely different server and had
to ask the server people to delete it. [...]

Hmm, the same problem with the same program on different servers. So
therefore it must be the server's problem?

 

[dorayme]

Doing what? In HTML? I load and upload things with an FTP program

Well, this is a HTML newsgroup. I presumed you are doing something
unusual with a browser via HTML , or PHP, or....
I would suspect the FTP program. The FTP program sounds GUI-ish. It may
be keeping a cache or local copy that no longer jives with reality.
You gave so few details I cannot even guess the OS. And is this a
standalone FTP program or part of a larger one?

This sounds like an operating system problem, or possibly a HTTP server
configuration error.

I have had this before with a completely different server and had
to ask the server people to delete it. [...]

Hmm, the same problem with the same program on different servers. So
therefore it must be the server's problem?[/QUOTE]

It's ok Jim, it is no big prob. I have no idea about it and
cannot say if the one program is causing the trouble on different
servers (that I used the same program is surely not strong
evidence... but you may be right? I think others have had this
prob with other ftp programs and I vahuely recall having it with
Transmit ages ago (a Mac FTP client). Now I use Cyberduck,
another Mac FTP client.

I guess I better one day ask the server people to delete these
pesky half-living things! I did what I described in OP, using
Cyberduck to a commercial Unix server. Just usual stuff of file
loading and deleting for websites.

 

[Steven Saunderson]

I am not quite sure what you are asking me to supply? To see what
is on a server, you need passwords and user names.

No no, I'm not asking for any special access. I am assuming that the
directory is accessible via a browser (as you had web pages in it) and
if this is the case then anybody could look at it by entering
<http://your-domain/troublesome-directory/>. Since there is no index
file there Apache will return a list of files in the directory but only
if Indexes is enabled. Can you access the directory and does this
return a list of files ?

A better solution might be to find a trusted soul with FileZilla or
another good FTP client and tell them the domain/directory/user/pass so
they could have a look.

Sorry I can't think of a simple fix here. There must be something funny
if you can upload a file with the same name as this ghost file. The
ghost file doesn't have a name starting with '.' does it ? Maybe your
FTP client shows the file but not the leading '.'.

 

[Leonard Blaisdell]

I am not quite sure what you are asking me to supply? To see what
is on a server, you need passwords and user names... I feel
unlicensed to do this as it is a customer of mine. But what
should I look for, I will pass control to you lot, I will be your
robot. Direct me masters....

I'm surprised you haven't gotten definitive answers by now if you
haven't. As Mr. Saunderson postulated, are you sure you haven't a space
before or after the filename on the server? A space after is hard to
see. You should not have been able to see two files with the same name
on the same level on a unix server. Spaces make the filenames different.
For instance 'dorayme.html' is much different than 'dorayme.html<space>'
or '<space>dorayme.html'. That's my last shot with thanks to Mr.
Saunderson.

leo

 

[dorayme]

No no, I'm not asking for any special access. I am assuming that the
directory is accessible via a browser (as you had web pages in it) and
if this is the case then anybody could look at it by entering
<http://your-domain/troublesome-directory/>. Since there is no index
file there Apache will return a list of files in the directory but only
if Indexes is enabled. Can you access the directory and does this
return a list of files ?

A better solution might be to find a trusted soul with FileZilla or
another good FTP client and tell them the domain/directory/user/pass so
they could have a look.

Sorry I can't think of a simple fix here. There must be something funny
if you can upload a file with the same name as this ghost file. The
ghost file doesn't have a name starting with '.' does it ? Maybe your
FTP client shows the file but not the leading '.'.

I see what you are saying, sorry, bit slow of me... No, I can
guess the answer to your question without looking... here it is:

"The requested URL /website/gallery/brainGym/Icon/ was not found
on this server".

But, at another level, at

URL /website/gallery/brainGym/

I get

Index of /website/gallery/brainGym
? Parent Directory
? Icon

There it is! As a name! It reveals itself via the cloak of a
reference but will not of course reveal itself in its glory, its
actuality. because it has none! It is a miserable thing stuck in
limbo between Being and Nothingness.

I might contact Cyberduck or the server folk... But thanks Jim
for trying and suggestions etc...

 

[dorayme]

I'm surprised you haven't gotten definitive answers by now if you
haven't. As Mr. Saunderson postulated, are you sure you haven't a space
before or after the filename on the server? A space after is hard to
see. You should not have been able to see two files with the same name
on the same level on a unix server. Spaces make the filenames different.
For instance 'dorayme.html' is much different than 'dorayme.html<space>'
or '<space>dorayme.html'. That's my last shot with thanks to Mr.
Saunderson.

leo

I am going to take another look right now Leo... just a mo

No, it has no space before or after.

Try to delete it and I get from Cyberduck a drawewr coming out of
browser window saying

215 UNIX Type: L8
CWD /www/website/gallery/brainGym
250 CWD command successful
DELE Icon
550 Icon: No such file or directory
FTP Error: Icon: No such file or directory (Icon)

 

[Steven Saunderson]

But, at another level, at

URL /website/gallery/brainGym/

I get

Index of /website/gallery/brainGym
? Parent Directory
? Icon

There it is! As a name!

I would look at the HTML behind this list, especially the HREF. This
should show you what the name actually is.