Ghost icon on server

Discussion in 'HTML' started by dorayme, Aug 27, 2006.

  1. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    Anyone had the prob of a blank icon appearing in a folder on the
    server which cannot be deleted because it is not seen by some
    process?

    FTP Error: /www/website/gallery/thumbs/Icon: No such file or
    directory (Icon)

    and this stops the whole folder from being deleted?

    It has happened a few times to me and I never really know what to
    do... I just ignore it and hope it goes away. Anyone a clue as to
    what to do besides not worrying, contacting the server people or
    renaming (this latter can't be done because it is officially not
    there though I see them in my FTP program. I have 4 of these half
    existing things. Who said that existence was binary?

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Aug 27, 2006
    #1
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  2. dorayme

    cwdjrxyz Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > Anyone had the prob of a blank icon appearing in a folder on the
    > server which cannot be deleted because it is not seen by some
    > process?
    >
    > FTP Error: /www/website/gallery/thumbs/Icon: No such file or
    > directory (Icon)
    >
    > and this stops the whole folder from being deleted?
    >
    > It has happened a few times to me and I never really know what to
    > do... I just ignore it and hope it goes away. Anyone a clue as to
    > what to do besides not worrying, contacting the server people or
    > renaming (this latter can't be done because it is officially not
    > there though I see them in my FTP program. I have 4 of these half
    > existing things. Who said that existence was binary?


    Ghosts can happen on a computer as well as a server. You only have a
    ghost icon. I have a ghost movie on my computer. The computer crashed
    for some unknow reason when I was processing an about 4 GB movie mpg
    file. After starting again, there was a directory with a movie file
    where it should be. However the movie file was of unknown type and of
    zero size. The computer would not allow you to delete either the
    directory or the ghost movie and would say that the file could not be
    found on the HD. Renaming, etc did not help. I am on Windows XP with
    all of the updates. A system restore did not help. When you clean up
    the C HD and defrag, everything defrags except several fragments for
    the ghost movie, and the computer still thinks it has an about 4 GB
    file stored on the HD. The only sure way I know to solve this problem
    is to completely erase the HD and reinstall everything. I am not that
    desperate to solve the problem which is doing no harm. Of course, on
    the server you use, you likely do not have this option unless you own
    the server. Hopefully someone else has had experience with ghosts on a
    server or computer and can describe how they solved the problem.
    cwdjrxyz, Aug 27, 2006
    #2
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  3. dorayme

    Jim Moe Guest

    Re: [OT] Ghost icon on server

    dorayme wrote:
    > Anyone had the prob of a blank icon appearing in a folder on the
    > server which cannot be deleted because it is not seen by some
    > process?
    >

    Is this your server? You have root/admin access to it?

    > FTP Error: /www/website/gallery/thumbs/Icon: No such file or
    > directory (Icon)
    >
    > and this stops the whole folder from being deleted?
    >

    How are you doing this with HTML?
    This sounds like an operating system problem, or possibly a HTTP server
    configuration error.

    --
    jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
    (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)
    Jim Moe, Aug 27, 2006
    #3
  4. In article
    <>,
    dorayme <> wrote:

    > It has happened a few times to me and I never really know what to
    > do... I just ignore it and hope it goes away. Anyone a clue as to
    > what to do besides not worrying, contacting the server people or
    > renaming (this latter can't be done because it is officially not
    > there though I see them in my FTP program. I have 4 of these half
    > existing things. Who said that existence was binary?


    Have you tried sending up a real file of the same name to replace the
    bogus one and then attempting to delete that? It's maybe something to
    try.

    leo

    --
    <http://web0.greatbasin.net/~leo/>
    Leonard Blaisdell, Aug 27, 2006
    #4
  5. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    Re: [OT] Ghost icon on server

    In article <>,
    Jim Moe <> wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    > > Anyone had the prob of a blank icon appearing in a folder on the
    > > server which cannot be deleted because it is not seen by some
    > > process?
    > >

    > Is this your server? You have root/admin access to it?


    Not my server

    >
    > > FTP Error: /www/website/gallery/thumbs/Icon: No such file or
    > > directory (Icon)
    > >
    > > and this stops the whole folder from being deleted?
    > >


    > How are you doing this with HTML?


    Doing what? In HTML? I load and upload things with an FTP program

    > This sounds like an operating system problem, or possibly a HTTP server
    > configuration error.


    I have had this before with a completely different server and had
    to ask the server people to delete it. I never got any feedback,
    they just said they had deleted it and it was indeed gone. It
    happens when I delete or try to delete folders. Now and again,
    one or more folders on the server spring this ghost as content
    and as a consequence refuse to be deleted.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Aug 28, 2006
    #5
  6. Re: [OT] Ghost icon on server

    On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:21:07 +1000, dorayme
    <> wrote:

    > I have had this before with a completely different server and had
    > to ask the server people to delete it. I never got any feedback,
    > they just said they had deleted it and it was indeed gone.


    It is possible to get undeletable (using FTP) files if you create files
    using PHP. The PHP created files have the Apache UID and if the
    permissions are restricted then deletion via FTP will fail because FTP
    will be using your account UID. Can you check the permissions and UID
    of the files to see if they match those of files you have uploaded ?

    HTH

    --
    Steven
    Steven Saunderson, Aug 28, 2006
    #6
  7. dorayme

    cwdjrxyz Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Jim Moe <> wrote:
    >
    > > dorayme wrote:
    > > > Anyone had the prob of a blank icon appearing in a folder on the
    > > > server which cannot be deleted because it is not seen by some
    > > > process?
    > > >

    > > Is this your server? You have root/admin access to it?

    >
    > Not my server
    >
    > >
    > > > FTP Error: /www/website/gallery/thumbs/Icon: No such file or
    > > > directory (Icon)
    > > >
    > > > and this stops the whole folder from being deleted?
    > > >

    >
    > > How are you doing this with HTML?

    >
    > Doing what? In HTML? I load and upload things with an FTP program
    >
    > > This sounds like an operating system problem, or possibly a HTTP server
    > > configuration error.

    >
    > I have had this before with a completely different server and had
    > to ask the server people to delete it. I never got any feedback,
    > they just said they had deleted it and it was indeed gone. It
    > happens when I delete or try to delete folders. Now and again,
    > one or more folders on the server spring this ghost as content
    > and as a consequence refuse to be deleted.


    On my server, I only once have had something that would not delete.
    However it was not a ghost, but a file that I created. When you set up
    ftp for others to download from, a special high level file is set up to
    handle the ftp downloads for pages you wish others to download. This
    file only has a number given to it by the program reached from the
    control panel that sets up the ftp. I changed my mind about what I
    wanted to do and tried to delete the special folder. However you just
    get messages that the folder can not be deleted. I called the host
    company, and they said they could do it. However I must send them the
    file number I wanted deleted by email. I did this, and within 30
    minutes the file was gone. I guess they were trying to protect their
    backside by having the request for deletion in writing.
    cwdjrxyz, Aug 28, 2006
    #7
  8. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    Re: [OT] Ghost icon on server

    In article <>,
    Steven Saunderson <> wrote:

    > On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:21:07 +1000, dorayme
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > > I have had this before with a completely different server and had
    > > to ask the server people to delete it. I never got any feedback,
    > > they just said they had deleted it and it was indeed gone.

    >
    > It is possible to get undeletable (using FTP) files if you create files
    > using PHP. The PHP created files have the Apache UID and if the
    > permissions are restricted then deletion via FTP will fail because FTP
    > will be using your account UID. Can you check the permissions and UID
    > of the files to see if they match those of files you have uploaded ?


    They are from folders that had html files and pics, nothing to do
    with PHP. They have the same permissions as all the other files
    that really have full existence.

    (Fancy it being the case that something that truly exists can be
    so easily extinguished while some thing that only half exists
    cannot be.)

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Aug 28, 2006
    #8
  9. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <-sjc.supernews.net>,
    Leonard Blaisdell <> wrote:

    > In article
    > <>,
    > dorayme <> wrote:
    >
    > > It has happened a few times to me and I never really know what to
    > > do... I just ignore it and hope it goes away. Anyone a clue as to
    > > what to do besides not worrying, contacting the server people or
    > > renaming (this latter can't be done because it is officially not
    > > there though I see them in my FTP program. I have 4 of these half
    > > existing things. Who said that existence was binary?

    >
    > Have you tried sending up a real file of the same name to replace the
    > bogus one and then attempting to delete that? It's maybe something to
    > try.
    >
    > leo


    Tried this just now, Leo. It results in two files with exactly
    the same name appearing on the server - rather than one replacing
    the other. The one just uploaded is easily able to be deleted,
    the other one remains as stubbornly there (or half there!) as
    ever.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Aug 28, 2006
    #9
  10. In article
    <>,
    dorayme <> wrote:

    > Tried this just now, Leo. It results in two files with exactly
    > the same name appearing on the server - rather than one replacing
    > the other. The one just uploaded is easily able to be deleted,
    > the other one remains as stubbornly there (or half there!) as
    > ever.


    What type of server are you having the problem with? If it's Apache on
    *nix, I'm pretty sure I know how to delete everything in my account or
    yours if you give me the password ;-) If you are served by IIS, I have
    no clue.
    I see this has been labeled [OT] by someone. I've always thought of
    upload and deletion of files on a server to be integral to HTML. And
    FFS, this is alt and not comp.

    leo

    --
    <http://web0.greatbasin.net/~leo/>
    Leonard Blaisdell, Aug 28, 2006
    #10
  11. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <-sjc.supernews.net>,
    Leonard Blaisdell <> wrote:

    > In article
    > <>,
    > dorayme <> wrote:
    >
    > > Tried this just now, Leo. It results in two files with exactly
    > > the same name appearing on the server - rather than one replacing
    > > the other. The one just uploaded is easily able to be deleted,
    > > the other one remains as stubbornly there (or half there!) as
    > > ever.

    >
    > What type of server are you having the problem with? If it's Apache on
    > *nix,


    It's a Unix server... I don't know more just now.

    > I'm pretty sure I know how to delete everything in my account or
    > yours if you give me the password ;-)


    Can't give out passwords old chum as it is on a client of mine's
    web hosting service. But deleting everything is not quite what I
    had in mind! I'd rather leave ghosts about!

    > I see this has been labeled [OT] by someone. I've always thought of
    > upload and deletion of files on a server to be integral to HTML. And
    > FFS, this is alt and not comp.
    >

    You seeing things i am not seeing? Who dared to say it was OT?
    Have people got the ability to reverse killfile? That is, make
    their posts invisible to individual earthlings and martians?

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Aug 28, 2006
    #11
  12. Re: [OT] Ghost icon on server

    On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:50:10 +1000, dorayme
    <> wrote:

    > They are from folders that had html files and pics, nothing to do
    > with PHP. They have the same permissions as all the other files
    > that really have full existence.


    Since you say you have seen this before it might be caused by your FTP
    program. Maybe it creates a dummy file whose name has a trailing space.
    Can you supply a URL for the directory and enable Indexes so nosy (but
    helpful) bods can see what Apache lists ?

    --
    Steven
    Steven Saunderson, Aug 28, 2006
    #12
  13. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    Re: [OT] Ghost icon on server

    In article <>,
    Steven Saunderson <> wrote:

    > Since you say you have seen this before it might be caused by your FTP
    > program. Maybe it creates a dummy file whose name has a trailing space.
    > Can you supply a URL for the directory and enable Indexes so nosy (but
    > helpful) bods can see what Apache lists ?


    I am not quite sure what you are asking me to supply? To see what
    is on a server, you need passwords and user names... I feel
    unlicensed to do this as it is a customer of mine. But what
    should I look for, I will pass control to you lot, I will be your
    robot. Direct me masters....

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Aug 28, 2006
    #13
  14. dorayme

    Jim Moe Guest

    Re: [OT] Ghost icon on server

    dorayme wrote:
    >> > Anyone had the prob of a blank icon appearing in a folder on the
    >> > server which cannot be deleted because it is not seen by some
    >> > process?
    >> >

    >>
    >> > FTP Error: /www/website/gallery/thumbs/Icon: No such file or
    >> > directory (Icon)
    >> >
    >> > and this stops the whole folder from being deleted?
    >> >

    >> How are you doing this with HTML?

    >
    > Doing what? In HTML? I load and upload things with an FTP program
    >

    Well, this is a HTML newsgroup. I presumed you are doing something
    unusual with a browser via HTML , or PHP, or....
    I would suspect the FTP program. The FTP program sounds GUI-ish. It may
    be keeping a cache or local copy that no longer jives with reality.
    You gave so few details I cannot even guess the OS. And is this a
    standalone FTP program or part of a larger one?

    >> This sounds like an operating system problem, or possibly a HTTP server
    >> configuration error.

    >
    > I have had this before with a completely different server and had
    > to ask the server people to delete it. [...]
    >

    Hmm, the same problem with the same program on different servers. So
    therefore it must be the server's problem?

    --
    jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
    (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)
    Jim Moe, Aug 28, 2006
    #14
  15. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    Re: [OT] Ghost icon on server

    In article <>,
    Jim Moe <> wrote:

    > > Doing what? In HTML? I load and upload things with an FTP program
    > >

    > Well, this is a HTML newsgroup. I presumed you are doing something
    > unusual with a browser via HTML , or PHP, or....
    > I would suspect the FTP program. The FTP program sounds GUI-ish. It may
    > be keeping a cache or local copy that no longer jives with reality.
    > You gave so few details I cannot even guess the OS. And is this a
    > standalone FTP program or part of a larger one?
    >
    > >> This sounds like an operating system problem, or possibly a HTTP server
    > >> configuration error.

    > >
    > > I have had this before with a completely different server and had
    > > to ask the server people to delete it. [...]
    > >

    > Hmm, the same problem with the same program on different servers. So
    > therefore it must be the server's problem?


    It's ok Jim, it is no big prob. I have no idea about it and
    cannot say if the one program is causing the trouble on different
    servers (that I used the same program is surely not strong
    evidence... but you may be right? I think others have had this
    prob with other ftp programs and I vahuely recall having it with
    Transmit ages ago (a Mac FTP client). Now I use Cyberduck,
    another Mac FTP client.

    I guess I better one day ask the server people to delete these
    pesky half-living things! I did what I described in OP, using
    Cyberduck to a commercial Unix server. Just usual stuff of file
    loading and deleting for websites.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Aug 28, 2006
    #15
  16. Re: [OT] Ghost icon on server

    On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:06:43 +1000, dorayme
    <> wrote:

    > > Can you supply a URL for the directory and enable Indexes so nosy (but
    > > helpful) bods can see what Apache lists ?

    >
    > I am not quite sure what you are asking me to supply? To see what
    > is on a server, you need passwords and user names.


    No no, I'm not asking for any special access. I am assuming that the
    directory is accessible via a browser (as you had web pages in it) and
    if this is the case then anybody could look at it by entering
    <http://your-domain/troublesome-directory/>. Since there is no index
    file there Apache will return a list of files in the directory but only
    if Indexes is enabled. Can you access the directory and does this
    return a list of files ?

    A better solution might be to find a trusted soul with FileZilla or
    another good FTP client and tell them the domain/directory/user/pass so
    they could have a look.

    Sorry I can't think of a simple fix here. There must be something funny
    if you can upload a file with the same name as this ghost file. The
    ghost file doesn't have a name starting with '.' does it ? Maybe your
    FTP client shows the file but not the leading '.'.

    --
    Steven
    Steven Saunderson, Aug 28, 2006
    #16
  17. Re: [OT] Ghost icon on server

    In article
    <>,
    dorayme <> wrote:

    > I am not quite sure what you are asking me to supply? To see what
    > is on a server, you need passwords and user names... I feel
    > unlicensed to do this as it is a customer of mine. But what
    > should I look for, I will pass control to you lot, I will be your
    > robot. Direct me masters....


    I'm surprised you haven't gotten definitive answers by now if you
    haven't. As Mr. Saunderson postulated, are you sure you haven't a space
    before or after the filename on the server? A space after is hard to
    see. You should not have been able to see two files with the same name
    on the same level on a unix server. Spaces make the filenames different.
    For instance 'dorayme.html' is much different than 'dorayme.html<space>'
    or '<space>dorayme.html'. That's my last shot with thanks to Mr.
    Saunderson.

    leo

    --
    <http://web0.greatbasin.net/~leo/>
    Leonard Blaisdell, Aug 28, 2006
    #17
  18. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    Re: [OT] Ghost icon on server

    In article <>,
    Steven Saunderson <> wrote:

    > On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:06:43 +1000, dorayme
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > > > Can you supply a URL for the directory and enable Indexes so nosy (but
    > > > helpful) bods can see what Apache lists ?

    > >
    > > I am not quite sure what you are asking me to supply? To see what
    > > is on a server, you need passwords and user names.

    >
    > No no, I'm not asking for any special access. I am assuming that the
    > directory is accessible via a browser (as you had web pages in it) and
    > if this is the case then anybody could look at it by entering
    > <http://your-domain/troublesome-directory/>. Since there is no index
    > file there Apache will return a list of files in the directory but only
    > if Indexes is enabled. Can you access the directory and does this
    > return a list of files ?
    >
    > A better solution might be to find a trusted soul with FileZilla or
    > another good FTP client and tell them the domain/directory/user/pass so
    > they could have a look.
    >
    > Sorry I can't think of a simple fix here. There must be something funny
    > if you can upload a file with the same name as this ghost file. The
    > ghost file doesn't have a name starting with '.' does it ? Maybe your
    > FTP client shows the file but not the leading '.'.


    I see what you are saying, sorry, bit slow of me... No, I can
    guess the answer to your question without looking... here it is:

    "The requested URL /website/gallery/brainGym/Icon/ was not found
    on this server".

    But, at another level, at

    URL /website/gallery/brainGym/

    I get

    Index of /website/gallery/brainGym
    ? Parent Directory
    ? Icon

    There it is! As a name! It reveals itself via the cloak of a
    reference but will not of course reveal itself in its glory, its
    actuality. because it has none! It is a miserable thing stuck in
    limbo between Being and Nothingness.

    I might contact Cyberduck or the server folk... But thanks Jim
    for trying and suggestions etc...

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Aug 28, 2006
    #18
  19. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    Re: [OT] Ghost icon on server

    In article
    <-sjc.supernews.net>,
    Leonard Blaisdell <> wrote:

    > In article
    > <>,
    > dorayme <> wrote:
    >
    > > I am not quite sure what you are asking me to supply? To see what
    > > is on a server, you need passwords and user names... I feel
    > > unlicensed to do this as it is a customer of mine. But what
    > > should I look for, I will pass control to you lot, I will be your
    > > robot. Direct me masters....

    >
    > I'm surprised you haven't gotten definitive answers by now if you
    > haven't. As Mr. Saunderson postulated, are you sure you haven't a space
    > before or after the filename on the server? A space after is hard to
    > see. You should not have been able to see two files with the same name
    > on the same level on a unix server. Spaces make the filenames different.
    > For instance 'dorayme.html' is much different than 'dorayme.html<space>'
    > or '<space>dorayme.html'. That's my last shot with thanks to Mr.
    > Saunderson.
    >
    > leo


    I am going to take another look right now Leo... just a mo

    No, it has no space before or after.

    Try to delete it and I get from Cyberduck a drawewr coming out of
    browser window saying

    215 UNIX Type: L8
    CWD /www/website/gallery/brainGym
    250 CWD command successful
    DELE Icon
    550 Icon: No such file or directory
    FTP Error: Icon: No such file or directory (Icon)

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Aug 28, 2006
    #19
  20. Re: [OT] Ghost icon on server

    On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:17:57 +1000, dorayme
    <> wrote:

    > But, at another level, at
    >
    > URL /website/gallery/brainGym/
    >
    > I get
    >
    > Index of /website/gallery/brainGym
    > ? Parent Directory
    > ? Icon
    >
    > There it is! As a name!


    I would look at the HTML behind this list, especially the HREF. This
    should show you what the name actually is.

    --
    Steven
    Steven Saunderson, Aug 28, 2006
    #20
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