Java versus dotnet

Discussion in 'Java' started by Mr. X., Nov 19, 2007.

  1. Mr. X.

    Mr. X. Guest

    Hello,

    I have almost 20 years of experiment on high-tech.

    Right now, I want to start a new business,
    based on high technology.

    I would like to write a bussiness program,
    and I am quite confused of what technology should I use.

    Dotnet platform, or Java (I mean - programming, not Dotnet operating
    system).

    Dotnet is more popular then Java
    but Java still stands as good technology for multi-platform environment.
    (I live on Israel, and I think the population of dotnet is more then Java).

    Dotnet cost money, and java is free (Eclipse is enough for my applications).
    Is Java realy cheeper (Is there any fee I need to pay for Eclipse) ?
    (Also, I want that my OS will be : linux - still of the fact that it is
    free - is there any fee I need to pay for linux ?).
    The sale, will of course not be cheeper because of that fact, but will be as
    the price as other simmiliar programs at the market.

    .... (BTW, not the issue of this forum-mail, I need some bussiness-coaching,
    and not only personal cauching - is there any forum for that ?)

    Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ?
    Why should I prefer dotnet and not java ?

    Thanks :)
     
    Mr. X., Nov 19, 2007
    #1
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  2. On Nov 20, 9:26 am, "Mr. X." <no_spam_please@nospam_please.com> wrote:
    ....
    > Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ?
    > Why should I prefer dotnet and not java ?


    Why should I care? Please take questions like this
    over to an advocacy group. Should you decide on
    Java and have technical questions, this is the place
    to post.

    --
    Andrew T.
     
    Andrew Thompson, Nov 19, 2007
    #2
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  3. Mr. X. wrote:

    > Dotnet cost money,


    Look at the Mono project which is a free implementation of some of .Net.
    There is a C# compiler, IDE and runtime that runs on Linux or Windows.


    > and java is free (Eclipse is enough for my applications).
    > Is Java realy cheeper (Is there any fee I need to pay for Eclipse) ?


    You can use Eclipse to develop commercial applications without paying
    any fee.


    > (Also, I want that my OS will be : linux - still of the fact that it is
    > free - is there any fee I need to pay for linux ?).


    Linux can be obtained and used without paying a licence fee. Some Linux
    distributions can be purchased, in which case the price includes media
    and installation support. Some Linux distributions are purchased on an
    annual subscription basis. This isn't the right place to discuss Linux
    so I'll leave it at that.


    > Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ?
    > Why should I prefer dotnet and not java ?


    There's no easy answers to that sort of question. It probably depends in
    part on what your background is, what sort of application you want to
    develop and what sort of platforms you intend targeting.
     
    RedGrittyBrick, Nov 19, 2007
    #3
  4. Mr. X.

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Mr. X. wrote:
    > I would like to write a bussiness program,
    > and I am quite confused of what technology should I use.
    >
    > Dotnet platform, or Java (I mean - programming, not Dotnet operating
    > system).
    >
    > Dotnet is more popular then Java
    > but Java still stands as good technology for multi-platform environment.
    > (I live on Israel, and I think the population of dotnet is more then Java).
    >
    > Dotnet cost money, and java is free (Eclipse is enough for my applications).
    > Is Java realy cheeper (Is there any fee I need to pay for Eclipse) ?
    > (Also, I want that my OS will be : linux - still of the fact that it is
    > free - is there any fee I need to pay for linux ?).
    > The sale, will of course not be cheeper because of that fact, but will be as
    > the price as other simmiliar programs at the market.


    > Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ?
    > Why should I prefer dotnet and not java ?


    I think you should start by researching a bit more.

    There are no such thing as a .NET operating system.

    ..NET has become widely used, but Java is still more used in most
    countries.

    ..NET does not cost money.

    Eclipse is one of the most powerfull IDE's around, so you can not get
    more.

    You can get Linux for free or pay if you prefer.

    ..NET for Linux is via the Mono project (or DotGnu project).

    If you are Linux and Unix oriented you will probably be better
    of going with Java.

    Mono is following MS .NET similar to how gcj is following Sun Java.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Nov 20, 2007
    #4
  5. Mr. X.

    Lew Guest

    Mr. X. wrote:
    >> Dotnet is more popular then Java


    Evidence on the web suggests that Java is considerably more widely used than
    C# or .Net. This could change, and the definition of "popular" in these
    sources is open to debate. OTOH, there's no evidence I've seen for the
    converse claim, that .Net is more popular than Java.

    RedGrittyBrick wrote:
    > Look at the Mono project which is a free implementation of some of .Net.
    > There is a C# compiler, IDE and runtime that runs on Linux or Windows.


    I have heard that Mono is behind the full features of .Net, but it may be
    enough for the purpose.

    >> Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ?
    >> Why should I prefer dotnet and not java ?

    >
    > There's no easy answers to that sort of question. It probably depends in
    > part on what your background is, what sort of application you want to
    > develop and what sort of platforms you intend targeting.


    The rule of thumb is that Java is better.

    Just kidding. This is a Java newsgroup, after all.

    The real rule of thumb is that .Net is better if you're running exclusively on
    Windows, Java otherwise.

    Both Java and .Net are heavily supported by major players. I don't know if
    that is true for Mono.

    Once you get into professional deployments you will find big differences, at
    least in style. Programmers think sometimes that only development costs
    count. Operations is by far the larger expense and risk for a system. From
    what I've heard, Linux platforms (and the Java engines on them) are more
    stable, scalable and reliable than Windows platforms. Oh, there I go
    rumor-mongering. I have heard a lot of anecdotal evidence from sysadmins that
    Linux systems are safer.

    --
    Lew
     
    Lew, Nov 20, 2007
    #5
  6. Mr. X.

    mich Guest

    "Andrew Thompson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Nov 20, 9:26 am, "Mr. X." <no_spam_please@nospam_please.com> wrote:
    > ...
    >> Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ?
    >> Why should I prefer dotnet and not java ?

    >
    > Why should I care?


    Then why should you answer?
     
    mich, Nov 20, 2007
    #6
  7. Mr. X.

    mich Guest

    "RedGrittyBrick" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Mr. X. wrote:
    >
    >> Dotnet cost money,

    >
    > Look at the Mono project which is a free implementation of some of .Net.
    > There is a C# compiler, IDE and runtime that runs on Linux or Windows.
    >
    >
    >> and java is free (Eclipse is enough for my applications).
    >> Is Java realy cheeper (Is there any fee I need to pay for Eclipse) ?

    >
    > You can use Eclipse to develop commercial applications without paying any
    > fee.



    Netbeans is also worth a try and costs the same as Eclipse. Not saying it's
    better, but I found it easier for some reason.
     
    mich, Nov 20, 2007
    #7
  8. Mr. X. wrote:
    > ...


    > (I live on Israel....


    > ...


    > Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ?


    צדק צדק תרדוף

    --
    John W. Kennedy
    A proud member of the reality-based community.
     
    John W. Kennedy, Nov 20, 2007
    #8
  9. On Nov 19, 8:53 pm, "John W. Kennedy" <> wrote:
    > Mr. X. wrote:
    >
    > > ...

    >
    > > (I live on Israel....

    >
    > > ...

    >
    > > Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ?

    >
    > צדק צדק תרדוף
    >
    > --
    > John W. Kennedy
    > A proud member of the reality-based community.


    Translation, Mr. Kennedy

    por favor... si'l vous plait... per piachere...

    -RFH
     
    Ramon F Herrera, Nov 20, 2007
    #9
  10. On Nov 19, 7:26 pm, "Mr. X." <no_spam_please@nospam_please.com> wrote:

    >
    > Dotnet is more popular than Java


    Not in Detroit.
    Not at NASA.
    Not in Mars.
    Not in embedded devices.
    Not in cell phones.

    Java is a programming language that can be used under .NET - why would
    anyone perform such travesty is beyond me.

    With Java you can target all operating systems, with .NET you are
    pretty much a prisoner of one OS and one company. Lame attempts such
    as Mono can be destroyed with the stroke of a key, Neely Kroes
    notwithstanding.

    -Ramon
     
    Ramon F Herrera, Nov 20, 2007
    #10
  11. mich wrote:
    >> ...
    >>> Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ?
    >>> Why should I prefer dotnet and not java ?

    >>
    >> Why should I care?

    >
    >Then why should you answer?


    Perhaps if you'd read the lines you trimmed, you might have
    a clue. But then, you seem like someone who could not
    get a clue if it fell on you.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.physci.org/

    Message posted via http://www.javakb.com
     
    Andrew Thompson, Nov 20, 2007
    #11
  12. Mr. X.

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 01:26:35 +0200, "Mr. X."
    <no_spam_please@nospam_please.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
    someone who said :

    >Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ?


    ..net is single source. You are handing your balls to MS on a plate.
    If they want to charge more, drop support, or do a drastic redesign,
    or deliberately screw up non-Windows clients you must go with them.

    Microsoft has a long history of screwing its customers and
    competitors.

    They even have the legal right to pull the plug on Mono at any time.
    In any case, Mono is not a practical replacement.

    The main appeal of .net is the C# language, which is more
    programmer-friendly than Java.

    The main appeal of Java is it support from handhelds to mainframes
    with 256 CPUs. You have amazing scalability. You can develop on one
    size of machine and run on another. This is great if you don't have a
    firm handle on the loads you will have to support. You can start very
    cheaply and grow rapidly without recoding.

    Microsoft is a more likely target for a serious attack that puts it
    out of commission for months. You have seen the trouble even children
    have caused so far.

    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    The Java Glossary
    http://mindprod.com
     
    Roedy Green, Nov 20, 2007
    #12
  13. Ramon F Herrera wrote:
    (J.W.K. writ)
    >> צדק צדק תרדוף

    ...
    >Translation, Mr. Kennedy ...


    When I copy pasted that exact string into a ..major
    search engine it produced exactly one hit, pointing to
    "The Israeli Government's Official Website, by the
    Ministry of Foreign Affairs", at
    <http://paris1.mfa.gov.il/mfm/web/main/document.asp?DocumentID=85227&MissionID=31
    >


    It was the first part of a quote that was immediately followed
    by quoted text in English (presumably a translation).
    "Justice, justice you shall pursue, so that you may live
    and inherit the land."

    My guess is WTE of "justice you shall pursue".

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.physci.org/

    Message posted via http://www.javakb.com
     
    Andrew Thompson, Nov 20, 2007
    #13
  14. Mr. X. wrote:
    > I would like to write a bussiness program,
    > and I am quite confused of what technology should I use.


    The simplest criteria is this: use hammers for nails and screwdrivers
    for screws. Analyze what the requirements of the program are and find
    which language best suits it.

    > Dotnet platform, or Java (I mean - programming, not Dotnet operating
    > system).


    The proper term is .NET, I believe. .NET is not an operating system; it
    is closest in operation to the Java Virtual Machine: I believe your real
    question would be to choose between Visual Basic .NET, C#, or Java; do
    not forget, however, that other languages do exist (LISP, C++, Python,
    and Ruby, to name some of the more popular ones) which may be better
    suited to your environment.

    > Dotnet is more popular then Java
    > but Java still stands as good technology for multi-platform environment.
    > (I live on Israel, and I think the population of dotnet is more then Java).


    Most statistics I have seen show Java far outreaching C# or VB.NET or
    VC++.NET; I have not seen any regional breakdowns, so I do not know
    whether or not .NET is more popular in Israel or not, but I would tend
    to doubt it.

    > Dotnet cost money, and java is free (Eclipse is enough for my applications).
    > Is Java realy cheeper (Is there any fee I need to pay for Eclipse) ?


    At all levels of .NET and Java are the specifications open or mostly
    open; what one pays for is the development IDEs and runtime libraries
    (.NET's libraries are free for Windows, but the development is not; Java
    is free around the board [*]).

    > (Also, I want that my OS will be : linux - still of the fact that it is
    > free - is there any fee I need to pay for linux ?).


    Well, getting full .NET to work on Linux is not going to be happy
    sailing, but Linux is once again free (although Microsoft claims the
    total cost of ownership is more expensive than its software... your
    mileage may vary).

    > Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ?
    > Why should I prefer dotnet and not java ?


    Quick--how many people here are going to go for Java over .NET? Ask the
    same question in a .NET forum and what will you find? There are clear
    biases in these newsgroup, and probably a moderate bias on Usenet in
    general, to favoring Java.

    Java is renowned for its multiplatform support, and, having worked with
    some of the core-ish guts of Java, is quite stable: a Java 1.1 program
    runs very well in Java 6, and a Java 6 program (given a backport of
    libraries) would, with little modification, run back on Java 1.1.

    ..NET's main benefit is its integration with the Windows platform--any
    code that needs some specific assumptions on back-scene program would
    benefit from this integration; Java is the opposite in this regard: it
    takes the middle road as much as possible.

    [*] Free (gratis) here ("free as in bear", as some say). The cost is $0
    but the source code is not entirely free for use. Well, Java 7 is
    different in this regard, but...

    --
    Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
    tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
     
    Joshua Cranmer, Nov 20, 2007
    #14
  15. On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:37:23 -0500, Lew <> wrote:

    >Mr. X. wrote:
    >>> Dotnet is more popular then Java

    >
    >Evidence on the web suggests that Java is considerably more widely used than
    >C# or .Net. This could change, and the definition of "popular" in these
    >sources is open to debate. OTOH, there's no evidence I've seen for the
    >converse claim, that .Net is more popular than Java.


    "Popularity" is the wrong word, "market penetration" would be more
    appropriate.

    The fact is that .NET is deployed to far more machines than is Java.
    CE, 2K, XP, 2003 and Vista all require .NET 1.1 and Vista also
    requires .NET 2.0 ... the runtimes are pushed out to the have-nots
    with critical system updates.

    The upshot is that most Windows systems in use can be depended on to
    have at least 1.1. CE, XP and 2003 are still under warranty so it
    will be only a matter of time before they will require a later version
    as well.

    George
    --
    for email reply remove "/" from address
     
    George Neuner, Nov 20, 2007
    #15
  16. Mr. X.

    Lew Guest

    George Neuner wrote:
    > On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:37:23 -0500, Lew <> wrote:
    >
    >> Mr. X. wrote:
    >>>> Dotnet is more popular then Java

    >> Evidence on the web suggests that Java is considerably more widely used than
    >> C# or .Net. This could change, and the definition of "popular" in these
    >> sources is open to debate. OTOH, there's no evidence I've seen for the
    >> converse claim, that .Net is more popular than Java.

    >
    > "Popularity" is the wrong word, "market penetration" would be more
    > appropriate.
    >
    > The fact is that .NET is deployed to far more machines than is Java.
    > CE, 2K, XP, 2003 and Vista all require .NET 1.1 and Vista also
    > requires .NET 2.0 ... the runtimes are pushed out to the have-nots
    > with critical system updates.
    >
    > The upshot is that most Windows systems in use can be depended on to
    > have at least 1.1. CE, XP and 2003 are still under warranty so it
    > will be only a matter of time before they will require a later version
    > as well.


    Uh, yeah, good point. I was referring to the types of applications where one
    would have to choose between .Net and Java for, say, application development,
    though, not Windows internals direct from Microsoft.

    So "popularity" was the right word.

    --
    Lew
     
    Lew, Nov 21, 2007
    #16
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