opinion poll: who is better programmer navia or heathfield ?

Discussion in 'C Programming' started by geese786@gmail.com, Apr 2, 2008.

  1. Guest

    my vote for navia.
    , Apr 2, 2008
    #1
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  2. Guest

    Power levels

    Richard Heath Field (form 1) - 530,000

    form 2 - 1,400,000

    form 3 - 3,600,000

    form 4 - 30,000,000 (100%)

    form 4 + C99 chargeup = 80,000,000 (Very dangerous transformation, its
    hard to fight him in this form)

    form 4 + C99 Chargup + absorbing energy from all his fake profiles on
    CLC - 120,000,000 (Near unbeatable)

    Jacob Navia

    base power - 600,000

    lccoken X 20 = 12,000,000

    Super Navia - 150,000,000 (This form was revealted when navia bcame
    emotionally distressed after heathffields scathing attacks)

    Santosh

    base power - 28,000,000

    Charged up - 60,000,000

    Santosh angry - 136,000,000

    Chuck falconer

    base power - 200,000

    full power - 3,000,000

    chuck falconer (final shine) - 44,000,000

    Richard Bos

    power level 5000

    Transformed - 50,000

    Enraged - 5,000,000
    , Apr 2, 2008
    #2
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  3. In article <_uVIj.17720$2.easynews.com>,
    Mark McIntyre <> wrote:
    >Its a foolish question because only one of them actually /is/ a
    >programmer. The other is a troll.


    Agreed. But I'll bet we disagree as to who is who.
    Kenny McCormack, Apr 3, 2008
    #3
  4. Dann Corbit Guest

    "Mark McIntyre" <> wrote in message
    news:_uVIj.17720$2.easynews.com...
    > Its a foolish question because only one of them actually /is/ a
    > programmer. The other is a troll.


    I guess that both of them are good programmers. But trying to decide who is
    a better programmer by using a poll is like voting on the value of pi.

    Jacob Navia can be combative, but so can Richard Heathfield.

    I think that both of them like to argue, and Richard is just better at it
    and so he tends to win the arguments (though Jacob is amazingly adept at not
    recognizing his losses).

    Jacob likes to go off topic, but his tangents are usually not that bad and I
    tend to read his messages rather than killfile him because he has
    interesting things to say from time to time.

    Richard Heathfield understands the C standard a lot better than Jacob does,
    but that does not mean Jacob is a bad programmer.

    I'm also starting to change my mind about the Twink fellow, who I originally
    thought was a pure troll. I have seen a couple of posts by him that looked
    like genuine attempts to be helpful.

    However, the unadorned 'Kenny' and 'Richard' are pure trolls with nothing
    whatsoever to contribute.

    Probably, the originator of this thread is a clone of one of them.

    IMO-YMMV



    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
    Dann Corbit, Apr 3, 2008
    #4
  5. Richard Guest

    "Dann Corbit" <> writes:

    > "Mark McIntyre" <> wrote in message
    > news:_uVIj.17720$2.easynews.com...
    >> Its a foolish question because only one of them actually /is/ a
    >> programmer. The other is a troll.

    >
    > I guess that both of them are good programmers. But trying to decide who is
    > a better programmer by using a poll is like voting on the value of pi.
    >
    > Jacob Navia can be combative, but so can Richard Heathfield.
    >
    > I think that both of them like to argue, and Richard is just better at it
    > and so he tends to win the arguments (though Jacob is amazingly adept at not
    > recognizing his losses).
    >
    > Jacob likes to go off topic, but his tangents are usually not that bad and I
    > tend to read his messages rather than killfile him because he has
    > interesting things to say from time to time.
    >
    > Richard Heathfield understands the C standard a lot better than Jacob does,
    > but that does not mean Jacob is a bad programmer.
    >
    > I'm also starting to change my mind about the Twink fellow, who I originally
    > thought was a pure troll. I have seen a couple of posts by him that looked
    > like genuine attempts to be helpful.
    >
    > However, the unadorned 'Kenny' and 'Richard' are pure trolls with nothing
    > whatsoever to contribute.


    I would dispute that. And I agree with you about Mr Twink. But of course
    Twink is killfiled by the hard core simply for pointing out the arrogant
    and hostile approach taken by the core c.l.c clique and RH in particular.

    >
    > Probably, the originator of this thread is a clone of one of them.
    >
    > IMO-YMMV


    Do you see reds under your bed too?
    Richard, Apr 4, 2008
    #5
  6. On 3 Apr 2008 at 20:32, Dann Corbit wrote:
    > "Mark McIntyre" <> wrote in message
    > news:_uVIj.17720$2.easynews.com...
    >> Its a foolish question because only one of them actually /is/ a
    >> programmer. The other is a troll.

    >
    > I guess that both of them are good programmers. But trying to decide who is
    > a better programmer by using a poll is like voting on the value of pi.
    >
    > Jacob Navia can be combative, but so can Richard Heathfield.
    >
    > I think that both of them like to argue, and Richard is just better at it
    > and so he tends to win the arguments (though Jacob is amazingly adept at not
    > recognizing his losses).
    >
    > Jacob likes to go off topic, but his tangents are usually not that bad and I
    > tend to read his messages rather than killfile him because he has
    > interesting things to say from time to time.
    >
    > Richard Heathfield understands the C standard a lot better than Jacob does,
    > but that does not mean Jacob is a bad programmer.
    >
    > I'm also starting to change my mind about the Twink fellow, who I originally
    > thought was a pure troll. I have seen a couple of posts by him that looked
    > like genuine attempts to be helpful.
    >
    > However, the unadorned 'Kenny' and 'Richard' are pure trolls with nothing
    > whatsoever to contribute.


    First of all, Richard has a long history of valuable technical
    contributions to this group, and calling him a troll is manifestly
    unfair. Kenny may have fallen prey to cynicism here, but he contributes
    to several other technical groups and is clearly a serious Usenetter, so
    again dismissing him as a troll is unfair.

    For myself, I've come to the conclusion that trying to change attitudes
    here, whether by anger or debate or humor, is entirely pointless. There
    are too many closed minds that are not susceptible to reasoned argument.
    The hypocrisies of the regulars have all been pointed out more times
    than I can count; even the fun of satirizing them is reduced when they
    do such a good job of satirizing themselves - witness CBF's post in the
    current "-atof- function..." thread where he makes code "much clearer"
    by removing all the vertical space.

    So I've come to the conclusion that the most subversive and radical
    thing of all will be...just to post good technical advice! There are
    already a handful of threads that speak more eloquently than any angry
    polemic - several "off topic - go away - we don't care" messages, and then
    a single message from a leper and a troll that just answers the OP's
    question with no nonsense and no pedantry. The best thing of all is that
    so many of the regulars have kill-filed me that my answers don't unleash
    the familiar torrent of abusive "off topic!" messages in response.

    As The Clique never tire of telling us, this group isn't censored, and
    just because they're the noisiest people here, that doesn't mean they
    can suppress everyone else's posts. So let's just ignore them in the
    same way that they ignore us (they're always so keen to tell the world
    who they're "plonking" - as if anyone gives a damn...), and discuss real
    world C - which in the opinion of this "troll" is what this group is
    actually for!
    Antoninus Twink, Apr 4, 2008
    #6
  7. Malcolm McLean wrote:
    > "Richard" <> wrote in message
    >> I would dispute that. And I agree with you about Mr Twink. But of
    >> course Twink is killfiled by the hard core simply for pointing out
    >> the arrogant and hostile approach taken by the core c.l.c clique and
    >> RH in particular.

    > Twink is obviously a sockpuppet. The name is impossible

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twink can be quite enlightening...
    Joachim Schmitz, Apr 5, 2008
    #7
  8. Antoninus Twink wrote:
    > On 3 Apr 2008 at 20:32, Dann Corbit wrote:
    >> "Mark McIntyre" <> wrote in message
    >> news:_uVIj.17720$2.easynews.com...
    >>> Its a foolish question because only one of them actually /is/ a
    >>> programmer. The other is a troll.

    >>
    >> I guess that both of them are good programmers. But trying to
    >> decide who is a better programmer by using a poll is like voting on
    >> the value of pi.
    >>
    >> Jacob Navia can be combative, but so can Richard Heathfield.
    >>
    >> I think that both of them like to argue, and Richard is just better
    >> at it and so he tends to win the arguments (though Jacob is
    >> amazingly adept at not recognizing his losses).
    >>
    >> Jacob likes to go off topic, but his tangents are usually not that
    >> bad and I tend to read his messages rather than killfile him because
    >> he has interesting things to say from time to time.
    >>
    >> Richard Heathfield understands the C standard a lot better than
    >> Jacob does, but that does not mean Jacob is a bad programmer.
    >>
    >> I'm also starting to change my mind about the Twink fellow, who I
    >> originally thought was a pure troll. I have seen a couple of posts
    >> by him that looked like genuine attempts to be helpful.
    >>
    >> However, the unadorned 'Kenny' and 'Richard' are pure trolls with
    >> nothing whatsoever to contribute.

    >
    > First of all, Richard has a long history of valuable technical
    > contributions to this group, and calling him a troll is manifestly
    > unfair. Kenny may have fallen prey to cynicism here, but he
    > contributes to several other technical groups and is clearly a
    > serious Usenetter, so again dismissing him as a troll is unfair.

    Agreed.

    > For myself, I've come to the conclusion that trying to change
    > attitudes here, whether by anger or debate or humor, is entirely
    > pointless. There are too many closed minds that are not susceptible
    > to reasoned argument. The hypocrisies of the regulars have all been
    > pointed out more times
    > than I can count; even the fun of satirizing them is reduced when they
    > do such a good job of satirizing themselves - witness CBF's post in
    > the current "-atof- function..." thread where he makes code "much
    > clearer"
    > by removing all the vertical space.

    This wasn't CBF, but RH

    > So I've come to the conclusion that the most subversive and radical
    > thing of all will be...just to post good technical advice!

    Yes, this recent change of your behavoir has been noticed and honoured by
    several people meanwhile.

    Bye, Jojo
    Joachim Schmitz, Apr 5, 2008
    #8
  9. In article <>,
    Malcolm McLean <> wrote:
    >
    >"Richard" <> wrote in message
    >> I would dispute that. And I agree with you about Mr Twink. But of course
    >> Twink is killfiled by the hard core simply for pointing out the arrogant
    >> and hostile approach taken by the core c.l.c clique and RH in particular.
    >>

    >Twink is obviously a sockpuppet. The name is impossible and, until recently,
    >all he ever did was to respond to Richard Heathfield.


    My assumption has always been sockpuppet of Heathfield. Motivation
    unclear, but it has been amusing. Always remember that arguing with
    yourself is the most satisfying.
    Kenny McCormack, Apr 5, 2008
    #9
  10. In article <>,
    Richard Heathfield <> wrote:
    ....
    >Time will tell, of course - but if Mr Twink /has/ genuinely changed his
    >behaviour, that's good news for the group, and means that my campaign to
    >urge trolls to change the group for the better by positive means, rather
    >than negative, has begun to bear fruit. Let Kenny McCormack and Richard
    >Riley take note.


    I believe the expression is: Whoosh!
    Kenny McCormack, Apr 5, 2008
    #10
  11. Richard Heathfield wrote:
    > Joachim Schmitz said:
    >
    >> Antoninus Twink wrote:
    >>> even the fun of satirizing [the regular contributors] is reduced
    >>> when they do such a good job of satirizing themselves - witness
    >>> CBF's post in the current "-atof- function..." thread where he
    >>> makes code "much clearer" by removing all the vertical space.

    >> This wasn't CBF, but RH

    >
    > Whoosh! The point of my reply (which was, in fact, to an article in
    > which Chuck *did* show how to remove a lot of vertical space) appears
    > to have escaped you entirely.

    Well, I did understand that this was mean to be funny/ironical.
    Or was there more to it? If so that indeed escaped me...

    Bye, Jojo
    Joachim Schmitz, Apr 5, 2008
    #11
  12. Richard Heathfield <> writes:
    > Joachim Schmitz said:
    >
    >> Antoninus Twink wrote:

    [the usual, followed by]
    >>> So I've come to the conclusion that the most subversive and radical
    >>> thing of all will be...just to post good technical advice!

    >> Yes, this recent change of your behavoir has been noticed and honoured by
    >> several people meanwhile.

    >
    > Time will tell, of course - but if Mr Twink /has/ genuinely changed his
    > behaviour, that's good news for the group, and means that my campaign to
    > urge trolls to change the group for the better by positive means, rather
    > than negative, has begun to bear fruit. Let Kenny McCormack and Richard
    > Riley take note.


    AT has been posting a few articles with technical content, but I don't
    believe I've yet seen him post anything that wouldn't be more
    appropriate in a different newsgroup. And even if he suddenly started
    posting good topical material, I wouldn't personally be inclined to
    forgive or forget his past abuses.

    --
    Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) <>
    Nokia
    "We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
    Keith Thompson, Apr 5, 2008
    #12
  13. In article <>,
    Keith Thompson <> wrote:
    ....
    >AT has been posting a few articles with technical content, but I don't
    >believe I've yet seen him post anything that wouldn't be more
    >appropriate in a different newsgroup. And even if he suddenly started
    >posting good topical material, I wouldn't personally be inclined to
    >forgive or forget his past abuses.


    Pompous bag of air.

    You are not the baby Jesus.
    Kenny McCormack, Apr 5, 2008
    #13
  14. In article <>,
    Richard Heathfield <> wrote:
    >Keith Thompson said:
    >
    ><snip>
    >
    >> AT has been posting a few articles with technical content, but I don't
    >> believe I've yet seen him post anything that wouldn't be more
    >> appropriate in a different newsgroup. And even if he suddenly started
    >> posting good topical material, I wouldn't personally be inclined to
    >> forgive or forget his past abuses.

    >
    >Forget? No. But the problem with a policy of non-forgiveness is that it is
    >a downward spiral into bitterness all round. If you won't let a guy off
    >the hook, you're still hooked to him, and that damages *you*, not him.


    <Rolls eyes towards heaven...>
    Kenny McCormack, Apr 5, 2008
    #14
  15. Richard Heathfield <> writes:
    > Keith Thompson said:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >> AT has been posting a few articles with technical content, but I don't
    >> believe I've yet seen him post anything that wouldn't be more
    >> appropriate in a different newsgroup. And even if he suddenly started
    >> posting good topical material, I wouldn't personally be inclined to
    >> forgive or forget his past abuses.

    >
    > Forget? No. But the problem with a policy of non-forgiveness is that
    > it is a downward spiral into bitterness all round. If you won't let
    > a guy off the hook, you're still hooked to him, and that damages
    > *you*, not him.


    That's a very valid point, but in this case my lack of forgiveness
    would extend only to ignoring anything he has to say. I see no point
    in offering forgiveness to this particular person who shows no signs
    of wanting it.

    I have no expectation that he'll apologize for his past abuses, and no
    great desire for him to do so. If he did, it might be a different
    story. If he's on a hook, it's one of his own making.

    --
    Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) <>
    Nokia
    "We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
    Keith Thompson, Apr 5, 2008
    #15
  16. Chad Guest

    On Apr 2, 5:42 am, wrote:
    > Power levels
    >
    > Richard Heath Field (form 1) - 530,000
    >
    > form 2 - 1,400,000
    >
    > form 3 - 3,600,000
    >
    > form 4 - 30,000,000 (100%)
    >
    > form 4 + C99 chargeup = 80,000,000 (Very dangerous transformation, its
    > hard to fight him in this form)
    >
    > form 4 + C99 Chargup + absorbing energy from all his fake profiles on
    > CLC - 120,000,000 (Near unbeatable)
    >
    > Jacob Navia
    >
    > base power - 600,000
    >
    > lccoken X 20 = 12,000,000
    >
    > Super Navia - 150,000,000 (This form was revealted when navia bcame
    > emotionally distressed after heathffields scathing attacks)
    >
    > Santosh
    >
    > base power - 28,000,000
    >
    > Charged up - 60,000,000
    >
    > Santosh angry - 136,000,000
    >
    > Chuck falconer
    >
    > base power - 200,000
    >
    > full power - 3,000,000
    >
    > chuck falconer (final shine) - 44,000,000
    >
    > Richard Bos
    >
    > power level 5000
    >
    > Transformed - 50,000
    >
    > Enraged - 5,000,000


    I think this has to qualify as the dumbest thread of the year.
    Chad, Apr 5, 2008
    #16
  17. spinoza1111 Guest

    On Apr 5, 7:53 pm, Richard Heathfield <> wrote:
    > Joachim Schmitz said:
    >
    > > Antoninus Twink wrote:
    > >> even the fun of satirizing [the regular contributors] is reduced
    > >> when they do such a good job of satirizing themselves - witness
    > >> CBF's post in the current "-atof- function..." thread where he
    > >> makes code "much clearer" by removing all the vertical space.

    > > This wasn't CBF, but RH

    >
    > Whoosh! The point of my reply (which was, in fact, to an article in which
    > Chuck *did* show how to remove a lot of vertical space) appears to have
    > escaped you entirely.
    >
    > >> So I've come to the conclusion that the most subversive and radical
    > >> thing of all will be...just to post good technical advice!

    > > Yes, this recent change of your behavoir has been noticed and honoured by
    > > several people meanwhile.

    >
    > Time will tell, of course - but if Mr Twink /has/ genuinely changed his
    > behaviour, that's good news for the group, and means that my campaign to
    > urge trolls to change the group for the better by positive means, rather
    > than negative, has begun to bear fruit. Let Kenny McCormack and Richard
    > Riley take note.
    >
    > --
    > Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
    > Email: -http://www. +rjh@
    > Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
    > "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999


    Richard, how do you have any time to program? I mean, you're always
    here!

    When I program, I have to leave off posting. That's because I write
    documentation before code and this is time-consuming.

    Anyway, I better desist. It has been most illuminating to learn that
    you have hounded and harassed two other people (Schildt and Navia)
    that actually sat down and wrote compilers, as I have. Do I sense
    resentment? Do I detect a pattern? Do I smell a rat? Nawwww...

    I gotta get back to spinoza as well as preparing my classes. This is
    called "a life". Get one.
    spinoza1111, May 8, 2008
    #17
  18. spinoza1111 wrote:
    > On Apr 5, 7:53 pm, Richard Heathfield <> wrote:
    >> Joachim Schmitz said:
    >>
    >>> Antoninus Twink wrote:
    >>>> even the fun of satirizing [the regular contributors] is reduced
    >>>> when they do such a good job of satirizing themselves - witness
    >>>> CBF's post in the current "-atof- function..." thread where he
    >>>> makes code "much clearer" by removing all the vertical space.
    >>> This wasn't CBF, but RH

    >> Whoosh! The point of my reply (which was, in fact, to an article in which
    >> Chuck *did* show how to remove a lot of vertical space) appears to have
    >> escaped you entirely.
    >>
    >>>> So I've come to the conclusion that the most subversive and radical
    >>>> thing of all will be...just to post good technical advice!
    >>> Yes, this recent change of your behavoir has been noticed and honoured by
    >>> several people meanwhile.

    >> Time will tell, of course - but if Mr Twink /has/ genuinely changed his
    >> behaviour, that's good news for the group, and means that my campaign to
    >> urge trolls to change the group for the better by positive means, rather
    >> than negative, has begun to bear fruit. Let Kenny McCormack and Richard
    >> Riley take note.
    >>

    >
    > Richard, how do you have any time to program? I mean, you're always
    > here!
    >
    > When I program, I have to leave off posting. That's because I write
    > documentation before code and this is time-consuming.
    >
    > Anyway, I better desist. It has been most illuminating to learn that
    > you have hounded and harassed two other people (Schildt and Navia)
    > that actually sat down and wrote compilers, as I have. Do I sense
    > resentment? Do I detect a pattern? Do I smell a rat? Nawwww...
    >

    Yay. Another compiler. Just what we need.
    --
    clvrmnky <mailto:>

    Direct replies to this address will be blacklisted. Replace "spamtrap"
    with my name to contact me directly.
    Clever Monkey, May 8, 2008
    #18
  19. soscpd Guest

    With 23 years working on this field, I have never seen a place like
    this one. To be honest? I like it! (troll's and sockpuppet's embedded.
    Why should one use int, anyway?) :]

    Rafael
    Yeah, I was kind of in a cave.
    soscpd, May 8, 2008
    #19
  20. On 8 May, 20:05, spinoza1111 <> wrote:
    > On Apr 5, 7:53 pm, Richard Heathfield <> wrote:
    > > Joachim Schmitz said:
    > > > Antoninus Twink wrote:


    <snip>

    > When I program, I have to leave off posting. That's because I write
    > documentation before code and this is time-consuming.


    have you tried Test driven Development?

    <snip>

    > It has been most illuminating to learn that
    > you have hounded and harassed two other people (Schildt and Navia)
    > that actually sat down and wrote compilers [...]


    Schildt wrote a compiler!?
    How come the universe didn't implode?

    <snip>

    --
    Nick Keighley

    Quantum Boggum Sort:
    Q1. use a source of quantum noise (eg. radioactive decay) to
    randomly permutate an array.
    Q2. if the array is not ordered, destroy the universe (*)
    Q3. if you reached this step your universe has sorted the array
    in O(n) time.
    (*) [100] this is left as an exercise
    Nick Keighley, May 9, 2008
    #20
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