Optimal path engine project, coders needed

Discussion in 'Java' started by JSH, Jul 16, 2008.

  1. JSH

    JSH Guest

    Had this idea that should be simple to develop that goes after the
    Traveling Salesman Problem, where there is another thread where you
    can read details, but here I'm wondering if anyone would like to help
    code what I'm calling the optimal path engine.

    I started a Google Code project: code.google.com/p/optimalpathengine

    Trying to learn from my mistakes with my open source project Class
    Viewer for Java, I'm wanting to try and get as much outside help as
    possible which is the why for this post, versus it being a single
    developer project, though I'm sure I can code the entire algorithm
    myself.

    It's to be all in Java as that is the language I use.

    It'd be nice to have a project manager other than myself as it's
    tiring and I'm out of practice. It's been years since I actually
    worked as a developer where the highest I managed anyway was being a
    lead developer.

    Here's my one try to be more community oriented as part of me would
    rather just be the absolute ruler of the project like I am with Class
    Viewer. But hey, maybe I should at least try to be more communal, so,
    I'm trying.


    James Harris
    JSH, Jul 16, 2008
    #1
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  2. JSH

    Lits O'Hate Guest

    On Jul 15, 8:43 pm, JSH <> wrote:
    > Had this idea that should be simple to develop that goes after the
    > Traveling Salesman Problem, where there is another thread where you
    > can read details, but here I'm wondering if anyone would like to help
    > code what I'm calling the optimal path engine.
    >
    > I started a Google Code project: code.google.com/p/optimalpathengine
    >
    > Trying to learn from my mistakes with my open source project Class
    > Viewer for Java, I'm wanting to try and get as much outside help as
    > possible which is the why for this post, versus it being a single
    > developer project, though I'm sure I can code the entire algorithm
    > myself.
    >
    > It's to be all in Java as that is the language I use.
    >
    > It'd be nice to have a project manager other than myself as it's
    > tiring and I'm out of practice. It's been years since I actually
    > worked as a developer where the highest I managed anyway was being a
    > lead developer.
    >
    > Here's my one try to be more community oriented as part of me would
    > rather just be the absolute ruler of the project like I am with Class
    > Viewer. But hey, maybe I should at least try to be more communal, so,
    > I'm trying.


    I volunteer to code the method that computes what you're calling
    the "straight line distance."

    As you know, James, the only information given in the Traveling
    Salemsman problem is the number of cities and the cost to travel
    between each pair of cities.

    How does one use this information to compute the "straight line
    distance?"

    --
    "I look forward to a life that no longer has mathematical
    discovery as part of it, which is a relief." -- James Harris
    Lits O'Hate, Jul 16, 2008
    #2
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  3. JSH

    JSH Guest

    On Jul 16, 2:29 pm, "Lits O'Hate" <> wrote:
    > On Jul 15, 8:43 pm, JSH <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > Had this idea that should be simple to develop that goes after the
    > > Traveling Salesman Problem, where there is another thread where you
    > > can read details, but here I'm wondering if anyone would like to help
    > > code what I'm calling the optimal path engine.

    >
    > > I started a Google Code project: code.google.com/p/optimalpathengine

    >
    > > Trying to learn from my mistakes with my open source project Class
    > > Viewer for Java, I'm wanting to try and get as much outside help as
    > > possible which is the why for this post, versus it being a single
    > > developer project, though I'm sure I can code the entire algorithm
    > > myself.

    >
    > > It's to be all in Java as that is the language I use.

    >
    > > It'd be nice to have a project manager other than myself as it's
    > > tiring and I'm out of practice.  It's been years since I actually
    > > worked as a developer where the highest I managed anyway was being a
    > > lead developer.

    >
    > > Here's my one try to be more community oriented as part of me would
    > > rather just be the absolute ruler of the project like I am with Class
    > > Viewer.  But hey, maybe I should at least try to be more communal, so,
    > > I'm trying.

    >
    > I volunteer to code the method that computes what you're calling
    > the "straight line distance."
    >


    I need a project manager, a documents person (maybe first at this
    point), and a GUI developer who likes Swing.

    > As you know, James, the only information given in the Traveling
    > Salemsman problem is the number of cities and the cost to travel
    > between each pair of cities.
    >
    > How does one use this information to compute the "straight line
    > distance?"
    >


    You can't. The algorithm requires the distance between the cities.


    James Harris
    JSH, Jul 17, 2008
    #3
  4. JSH

    Rotwang Guest

    On 17 Jul, 01:30, JSH <> wrote:
    > On Jul 16, 2:29 pm, "Lits O'Hate" <> wrote:
    >
    > > As you know, James, the only information given in the Traveling
    > > Salemsman problem is the number of cities and the cost to travel
    > > between each pair of cities.

    >
    > > How does one use this information to compute the "straight line
    > > distance?"

    >
    > You can't. The algorithm requires the distance between the cities.


    Then it doesn't solve the travelling salesman problem, since the
    statement of the problem does not include that information.
    Rotwang, Jul 17, 2008
    #4
  5. JSH

    JSH Guest

    On Jul 16, 6:40 pm, Rotwang <> wrote:
    > On 17 Jul, 01:30, JSH <> wrote:
    >
    > > On Jul 16, 2:29 pm, "Lits O'Hate" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > As you know, James, the only information given in the Traveling
    > > > Salemsman problem is the number of cities and the cost to travel
    > > > between each pair of cities.

    >
    > > > How does one use this information to compute the "straight line
    > > > distance?"

    >
    > > You can't.  The algorithm requires the distance between the cities.

    >
    > Then it doesn't solve the travelling salesman problem, since the
    > statement of the problem does not include that information.


    But the information exists.

    This thread is for those interested in working on the open source
    project I've created on Google Code.

    I need a program manager, a documents person, and a GUI developer who
    likes Swing, at least to start.


    James Harris
    JSH, Jul 17, 2008
    #5
  6. JSH

    JSH Guest

    On Jul 16, 9:50 pm, Lew <com.lewscanon@lew> wrote:
    > JSH wrote:
    > > This thread is for those interested in working on the open source
    > > project I've created on Google Code.

    >
    > Right, because everyone else lacks imagination.
    >
    > --
    > Lew


    I'm sorry for making the crack about being imaginative. I didn't
    realize that would go over so badly.

    I made a lot of assumptions about how easy it was to understand this
    algorithm and now am forced to back down a lot and worry more about
    explaining simply, so I apologize for getting impatient and arrogant,
    and will endeavor to try harder at being understood.

    (I'll go back to my real self later, but for now I'll try to play
    better with others.)


    James Harris
    JSH, Jul 17, 2008
    #6
  7. JSH

    Lits O'Hate Guest

    On Jul 17, 12:30 am, JSH <> wrote:
    > On Jul 16, 6:40 pm, Rotwang <> wrote:
    > > > You can't. The algorithm requires the distance between the cities.

    >
    > > Then it doesn't solve the travelling salesman problem, since the
    > > statement of the problem does not include that information.

    >
    > But the information exists.


    Where?

    --
    "Go local. Message. Finish it this time. Clear. Tag. No
    permissions on the other. Hanging on a limb. Code. Expedite.
    Time it. Finish. Across. Dog. Triangulate. Window.
    Fingerprint. Tag. Finish." -- James Harris
    Lits O'Hate, Jul 17, 2008
    #7
  8. JSH

    Lew Guest

    Re: Optimal path engine project, kook-puppets needed

    Lew wrote:
    >> I do think your approach has certain interesting qualities [...]


    RedGrittyBrick wrote:
    > People might say similar to Xah, Razii and others, yet I'm not convinced
    > it is good to encourage them along the path they have chosen.
    >
    > http://www.crank.net/harris.html


    Humble apologies.

    Some might have discerned hilarious areas of ambiguity in the memberships and
    referents for "approach" and "interesting". As a maths major at midtown I
    chose electives in dictate, divisive removal, theology and assembly,
    thus giving up the singular threshhold that maths majors benevolently get in not
    having to write shacks. I did not, however, take any courses in entomology.
    While I did not ecologically take any courses in icey tone, I entirely
    perused the apple pies in that buzzsaw that were petty at the college library.

    To this minute I try to inculcate a broad base of terms, and not be a
    monomaniac with respect to programming and media fantasy.

    --
    Lew


    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "To be truthful about it, there was no way we could have got
    the public consent to have suddenly launched a campaign on
    Afghanistan but for what happened on September 11..."

    -- Tony Blair Speaking To House of Commons Liaison Committee
    Lew, Jul 19, 2008
    #8
  9. JSH

    JSH Guest

    Re: Optimal path engine project, kook-puppets needed

    On Jul 19, 7:55 am, RedGrittyBrick <>
    wrote:
    > Lew wrote:
    > > JSH wrote:

    >
    > >> (I'll go back to my real self later, but for now I'll try to play
    > >> better with others.)

    >
    > > I do think your approach has certain interesting qualities  [...]

    >
    > People might say similar to Xah, Razii and others, yet I'm not convinced
    > it is good to encourage them along the path they have chosen.
    >
    > http://www.crank.net/harris.html
    >


    I didn't reply to that before as I have usually thought it best to
    just ignore links to the crank.net site but it occurs to me that some
    of you may have made decisions based on it, so you should know more
    info.

    The site is run by a guy who goes by the name of Erik Max Francis
    which I say as I'm not sure that is his name, who says he lives in San
    Jose, California.

    I got into some arguments with him back when he was still posting on
    the sci.math newsgroup--yup, he was a poster on that newsgroup--and he
    put me on his website as a crackpot.

    > OTOH it did lead me to the following quotation, so every^H^H^H^H^H at
    > least one cloud has a silver lining.
    >
    > "I think Fermat succumbed to pressure when he claimed that he had found
    > a proof, and I don't blame him. I mean, there's this theorem named after
    > you, and they even tell you that it's the last one you're getting. Hell
    > yeah, you're going to tell them you proved it. For years people have
    > tried to show that Fermat's Last Theorem is true. Some have tried to
    > show it was not untrue, and others have tried to show that it was
    > not-not-not unfalse. It dawned upon me that no one had really tried to
    > show that it was un-not not-not-anti-not untrue. When I looked at it
    > this way, I immediately found that it was what I just said it was, and
    > at that point I knew I had stumbled upon a great discovery."
    >


    I have no clue where he got that quote as it isn't mine though I think
    the insinuation is that it is.

    Oh yeah, the low point in my arguments with Erik Max Francis was one
    time when I was sure he was insinuating that I should commit suicide.

    The guy I think has a lot of anger in him and has the outlet of
    assaults on "cranks", "kooks" and "crackpots" which is supported by a
    lot of others--like the poster I'm replying to--and I think is a
    throwback to the old web.

    The pendulum is swinging against the nasties though, and considering
    that it is past time to just let his antics go I have sent an email to
    Mr. Francis advising him of that assessment.

    This flame war has gone on for years and I think that is years too
    long.

    When he started there was no way to stop him but the Internet is
    starting to tone down a bit from its Wild West past.

    Then again, is it even necessary to get him to tone it down?

    If you took that link seriously but now are re-thinking that knowing
    that I got into arguments with Erik Max Francis on newsgroups before,
    so you know it's part of a flame war, and now are re-thinking that
    assessment, then you already know the answer.


    James Harris
    JSH, Aug 4, 2008
    #9
  10. Re: Optimal path engine project, kook-puppets needed

    JSH wrote:
    > On Jul 19, 7:55 am, RedGrittyBrick <>
    > wrote:
    >> "I think Fermat succumbed to pressure when he claimed that he had found
    >> a proof, and I don't blame him. I mean, there's this theorem named after
    >> you, and they even tell you that it's the last one you're getting. Hell

    [ ... ]

    > I have no clue where he got that quote as it isn't mine though I think
    > the insinuation is that it is.


    I doubt he's trying to insinuate that you made it. The quote in question
    is accessed from the FLT link on the sidebar of the linked page
    (elicited from quotations), where the source link of the quote itself is
    here: <http://home.mindspring.com/~jbshand/ferm.html>.

    Reading that site shows that it's from an "I. Savant of Marietta,
    Georgia" (sounds like a typical pseudonym as if published to an "Ask
    <random person here>" column offering advice on <insert problem category
    here>). It is almost definitely a parody in general of people trying to
    solve FLT's, as it discusses probabilities of 10 equaling 11 and even
    more outlandish stuff ("idios", likely a not-so-subtle allusion to
    "idiots"). The "grand result" is a list of equations that appear to be
    true to a calculator with only 6 decimal digits of precision.

    Of whom the parody is, I can't tell, but it smacks a parody of
    pseudomathematicians and FLT in general.

    --
    Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
    tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
    Joshua Cranmer, Aug 4, 2008
    #10
  11. Re: Optimal path engine project, kook-puppets needed

    Joshua Cranmer wrote:
    > JSH wrote:
    >> On Jul 19, 7:55 am, RedGrittyBrick <>
    >> wrote:
    >>> "I think Fermat succumbed to pressure when he claimed that he had found
    >>> a proof, and I don't blame him. I mean, there's this theorem named after
    >>> you, and they even tell you that it's the last one you're getting. Hell

    > [ ... ]
    >
    >> I have no clue where he got that quote as it isn't mine though I think
    >> the insinuation is that it is.

    >
    > I doubt he's trying to insinuate that you made it. The quote in question
    > is accessed from the FLT link on the sidebar of the linked page
    > (elicited from quotations), where the source link of the quote itself is
    > here: <http://home.mindspring.com/~jbshand/ferm.html>.


    And I should read more closely before replying. The site (crank.net)
    clearly lists the quote as "parody".

    --
    Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
    tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
    Joshua Cranmer, Aug 4, 2008
    #11
  12. JSH

    JSH Guest

    Re: Optimal path engine project, kook-puppets needed

    On Aug 3, 6:30 pm, Joshua Cranmer <> wrote:
    > Joshua Cranmer wrote:
    > > JSH wrote:
    > >> On Jul 19, 7:55 am, RedGrittyBrick <>
    > >> wrote:
    > >>> "I think Fermat succumbed to pressure when he claimed that he had found
    > >>> a proof, and I don't blame him. I mean, there's this theorem named after
    > >>> you, and they even tell you that it's the last one you're getting. Hell

    > > [ ... ]

    >
    > >> I have no clue where he got that quote as it isn't mine though I think
    > >> the insinuation is that it is.

    >
    > > I doubt he's trying to insinuate that you made it. The quote in question
    > > is accessed from the FLT link on the sidebar of the linked page
    > > (elicited from quotations), where the source link of the quote itself is
    > > here: <http://home.mindspring.com/~jbshand/ferm.html>.

    >
    > And I should read more closely before replying. The site (crank.net)
    > clearly lists the quote as "parody".
    >


    Ok.

    The site was actually profiled in the New York Times a while back.

    I guess it seems harmless enough to some to be labeled a crank, kook
    or crackpot, or maybe many think it is deserved?

    But why?

    Some group assessment makes it ok? A democratic process?

    If you anger enough people on newsgroups then they have the right to
    smear you across the web?

    I just checked Yahoo! and searching on "james harris" brings up a link
    to that page at #4.

    <quote>1 - 10 of 1,480,000 for "james harris" </quote>

    Now how many people linking to that site are likely to go further and
    see how justified the insult is? And yes, it IS an insult. A very
    personal one and I did argue with Erik Max Francis before and I am
    certain he knows that it is hurtful.

    Now consider one of my research finds.

    Sieve form of my prime counting function:

    With natural numbers x and n, where p_i is the i_th prime:

    P(x,n) = x - 1 - sum for i=1 to n of {P([x/p_i],i-1) - (i-1)}

    where if n is greater than the count of primes up to and including
    sqrt(x) then n is reset to that count.

    That is the algorithm for counting prime numbers, so for instance,
    P(100,4) = 25. P(10,2) = 4, and those prime are 2, 3, 5 and 7.

    That is one of the end results of a pure thinking exercise done back
    in 2002 so the main research is over 6 years old.

    It is also rather fast even in that basic form and more compact than
    any other representation of a prime counting function other than brute
    force.

    The crackpot label is about keeping my research under wraps.

    And it works amazingly well.

    The stark conclusion I've drawn is depressing: any research of any
    type can be handled in our modern age by some rather basic techniques
    using group processes.

    I theorize one could actually block acceptance of a cure for cancer.
    (Why would anyone? Think about it. What if they only wanted to block
    it from YOU and your family but use it themselves?)

    Placed with it in front of them, most people would defer to even a
    casual negative from a webpage from someone they do not even know.

    It is, I fear, built into the design of the human brain.


    James Harris
    JSH, Aug 4, 2008
    #12
  13. JSH

    Rotwang Guest

    Re: Optimal path engine project, kook-puppets needed

    On 4 Aug, 01:45, JSH <> wrote:
    > On Jul 19, 7:55 am, RedGrittyBrick <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    > > "I think Fermat succumbed to pressure when he claimed that he had found
    > > a proof, and I don't blame him. I mean, there's this theorem named after
    > > you, and they even tell you that it's the last one you're getting. Hell
    > > yeah, you're going to tell them you proved it. For years people have
    > > tried to show that Fermat's Last Theorem is true. Some have tried to
    > > show it was not untrue, and others have tried to show that it was
    > > not-not-not unfalse. It dawned upon me that no one had really tried to
    > > show that it was un-not not-not-anti-not untrue. When I looked at it
    > > this way, I immediately found that it was what I just said it was, and
    > > at that point I knew I had stumbled upon a great discovery."

    >
    > I have no clue where he got that quote as it isn't mine though I think
    > the insinuation is that it is.


    Of course there is no such insinuation. Anybody can tell that, unlike
    you, the person who wrote that has a sense of humour.
    Rotwang, Aug 4, 2008
    #13
  14. JSH

    Christian Guest

    bugbear schrieb:
    > Interesting. If your claims are true there MUST
    > be a mistake in the proof that TSP is NP-hard.
    >
    > BugBear


    Intereting. If the church's claims are true there MUST
    be a mistake in the proof that the earth is not flat.

    Christian

    Couldn't we all start using those <Sarcasm> nice and useful </Sarcasm>
    sarcasm tags from XML?
    Christian, Aug 4, 2008
    #14
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