[OT] IBM in talks to buy Sun

Discussion in 'Java' started by Mark Space, Mar 18, 2009.

  1. Mark Space

    Mark Space Guest

    Just thought I'd mention this:

    <http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/technology/companies/19sun.html?hp>


    "I.B.M. is in talks to buy Sun Microsystems in a proposed deal valued at
    nearly $7 billion, a person with knowledge of the negotiations said on
    Wednesday."
     
    Mark Space, Mar 18, 2009
    #1
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  2. Mark Space

    Qu0ll Guest

    "Mark Space" <> wrote in message
    news:rj9wl.26545$...
    > Just thought I'd mention this:
    >
    > <http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/technology/companies/19sun.html?hp>
    >
    >
    > "I.B.M. is in talks to buy Sun Microsystems in a proposed deal valued at
    > nearly $7 billion, a person with knowledge of the negotiations said on
    > Wednesday."


    Oh well, so much for Swing and NetBeans. We will live in an all SWT/Eclipse
    world soon :-(

    --
    And loving it,

    -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
    _________________________________________________

    [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
     
    Qu0ll, Mar 18, 2009
    #2
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  3. Mark Space

    Mark Space Guest

    Qu0ll wrote:
    > "Mark Space" <> wrote in message
    > news:rj9wl.26545$...
    >> Just thought I'd mention this:
    >>
    >> <http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/technology/companies/19sun.html?hp>
    >>
    >>
    >> "I.B.M. is in talks to buy Sun Microsystems in a proposed deal valued
    >> at nearly $7 billion, a person with knowledge of the negotiations said
    >> on Wednesday."

    >
    > Oh well, so much for Swing and NetBeans. We will live in an all
    > SWT/Eclipse world soon :-(
    >


    Yup that was my first thought too. Glassfish a goner too. All JBoss,
    all the time.
     
    Mark Space, Mar 18, 2009
    #3
  4. Mark Space

    Qu0ll Guest

    "Mark Space" <> wrote in message
    news:JZawl.26554$...
    > Qu0ll wrote:
    >> "Mark Space" <> wrote in message
    >> news:rj9wl.26545$...
    >>> Just thought I'd mention this:
    >>>
    >>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/technology/companies/19sun.html?hp>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "I.B.M. is in talks to buy Sun Microsystems in a proposed deal valued at
    >>> nearly $7 billion, a person with knowledge of the negotiations said on
    >>> Wednesday."

    >>
    >> Oh well, so much for Swing and NetBeans. We will live in an all
    >> SWT/Eclipse world soon :-(
    >>

    >
    > Yup that was my first thought too. Glassfish a goner too. All JBoss, all
    > the time.


    Don't you mean WebSphere?

    --
    And loving it,

    -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
    _________________________________________________

    [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
     
    Qu0ll, Mar 18, 2009
    #4
  5. Mark Space

    Qu0ll Guest

    "Steve Sobol" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 2009-03-18, Qu0ll <> wrote:
    >
    >>> Yup that was my first thought too. Glassfish a goner too. All JBoss,
    >>> all
    >>> the time.

    >>
    >> Don't you mean WebSphere?

    >
    > Yeah, I think he does. JBoss == Red Hat.
    >
    > Not that it matters to me, I use Jetty.


    I use GlassFish and have invested a lot of time and effort in learning it
    and customising my apps for it.

    > I really don't want to have to learn SWT, though. I'm happy with Swing.


    In spite of its critics, Swing is an awesome GUI toolkit that is unrivalled
    in the computing world. Again, I have invested hundreds of hours in Swing
    and my software uses it extensively. And what about applets? They have to
    be Swing or at least AWT.

    I am sure I am not the only one in this position so IBM would have to think
    long and hard about abandoning Swing. Surely Swing and SWT can co-exist? I
    imagine what would happen is that IBM's Java would continue to support Swing
    but they probably won't invest very much in developing it any further.

    > And... I don't think a discussion of Java's primary vendor is off-topic
    > for
    > this newsgroup.


    I absolutely agree. This could become an extremely crucial and significant
    move for Java.

    --
    And loving it,

    -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
    _________________________________________________

    [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
     
    Qu0ll, Mar 18, 2009
    #5
  6. Mark Space

    Guest

    Re: IBM in talks to buy Sun

    On Mar 18, 2:22 pm, Mark Space <> wrote:
    > Qu0ll wrote:
    > > "Mark Space" <> wrote in message
    > >news:rj9wl.26545$...
    > >> Just thought I'd mention this:

    >
    > >> <http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/technology/companies/19sun.html?hp>

    >
    > >> "I.B.M. is in talks to buy Sun Microsystems in a proposed deal valued
    > >> at nearly $7 billion, a person with knowledge of the negotiations said
    > >> on Wednesday."

    >
    > > Oh well, so much for Swing and NetBeans.  We will live in an all
    > > SWT/Eclipse world soon :-(

    >
    > Yup that was my first thought too.  Glassfish a goner too.  All JBoss,
    > all the time.


    I don't know about Glassfish, but I thought NetBeans was opensource...
    so... not a goner?
     
    , Mar 18, 2009
    #6
  7. Steve Sobol wrote on 18.03.2009 21:10:
    > SWT is less cross-platform than Swing is, in that you have to ship platform-
    > specific DLL's with your app to get it to work.


    I could image that IBM - if they really take complete control over Java - would
    package the necessary Swing DLLs and jars into the JDK so that anyone who
    installs a JDK has Swing and SWT installed (wouldn't hurt that much).

    I doubt that they would kill Swing because the installed base is just too big
    (btw: the GUI tools for DB2 are all Swing based, not a very good implementation
    of Swing, but nevertheless)

    Thomas
     
    Thomas Kellerer, Mar 18, 2009
    #7
  8. Mark Space

    Stefan Ram Guest

    Stefan Ram, Mar 18, 2009
    #8
  9. Mark Space

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:29:10 -0700, Mark Space
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
    who said :

    >"I.B.M. is in talks to buy Sun Microsystems in a proposed deal valued at
    >nearly $7 billion, a person with knowledge of the negotiations said on
    >Wednesday."


    Capitalism only works if you have 26+ competitors. Fewer than that and
    you get informal price fixing.

    Such buyouts are mainly to kill competition. In most cases I think
    they should be illegal.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "In the central North Pacific, plastic outweighs surface zooplankton 6 to 1."
    ~ Thomas M. Kostigen
     
    Roedy Green, Mar 18, 2009
    #9
  10. Mark Space

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:29:10 -0700, Mark Space
    > <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
    > who said :
    >> "I.B.M. is in talks to buy Sun Microsystems in a proposed deal valued at
    >> nearly $7 billion, a person with knowledge of the negotiations said on
    >> Wednesday."

    >
    > Capitalism only works if you have 26+ competitors. Fewer than that and
    > you get informal price fixing.
    >
    > Such buyouts are mainly to kill competition.


    I don't think the market for servers has ever been a market that
    could be labeled perfect competitive.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Mar 18, 2009
    #10
  11. Mark Space

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Qu0ll wrote:
    > "Mark Space" <> wrote in message
    > news:rj9wl.26545$...
    >> Just thought I'd mention this:
    >>
    >> <http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/technology/companies/19sun.html?hp>
    >>
    >> "I.B.M. is in talks to buy Sun Microsystems in a proposed deal valued
    >> at nearly $7 billion, a person with knowledge of the negotiations said
    >> on Wednesday."

    >
    > Oh well, so much for Swing and NetBeans. We will live in an all
    > SWT/Eclipse world soon :-(


    Swing is part of standard Java.

    You can count on it continuing to exist.

    Regarding NetBeans then I would expect that to continue as well.

    Large user base.

    Good reputation.

    It will not be in IBM's interest to see a Java IDE monopoly - it
    would only help Microsoft and Visual Studio.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Mar 18, 2009
    #11
  12. Mark Space

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Mark Space wrote:
    > Qu0ll wrote:
    >> "Mark Space" <> wrote in message
    >> news:rj9wl.26545$...
    >>> Just thought I'd mention this:
    >>>
    >>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/technology/companies/19sun.html?hp>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "I.B.M. is in talks to buy Sun Microsystems in a proposed deal valued
    >>> at nearly $7 billion, a person with knowledge of the negotiations
    >>> said on Wednesday."

    >>
    >> Oh well, so much for Swing and NetBeans. We will live in an all
    >> SWT/Eclipse world soon :-(
    >>

    >
    > Yup that was my first thought too. Glassfish a goner too.


    Not Swing and NetBeans.

    But most likely Glassfish.

    It does not have much market share anyway.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Mar 18, 2009
    #12
  13. Mark Space

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Steve Sobol wrote:
    > And... I don't think a discussion of Java's primary vendor is off-topic for
    > this newsgroup.


    Strictly speaking it must be off-topic for c.l.j.p since it is not
    a programming question.

    But I would say that it is so close to being on-topic, because
    it may have an impact on the products and tools we use that it is
    not spam.

    I always think we have 3 categories:
    A) on topic about Java programming
    B) stuff that is acceptable because it is closely related
    to Java programming - which includes logical/algorithmic problems
    that just happen to be implemented in Java, important news related
    to major Java products etc.
    C) off topic spam

    This is not comp.lang.c !

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Mar 18, 2009
    #13
  14. Mark Space

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Re: IBM in talks to buy Sun

    wrote:
    > On Mar 18, 2:22 pm, Mark Space <> wrote:
    >> Qu0ll wrote:
    >>> "Mark Space" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:rj9wl.26545$...
    >>>> Just thought I'd mention this:
    >>>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/technology/companies/19sun.html?hp>
    >>>> "I.B.M. is in talks to buy Sun Microsystems in a proposed deal valued
    >>>> at nearly $7 billion, a person with knowledge of the negotiations said
    >>>> on Wednesday."
    >>> Oh well, so much for Swing and NetBeans. We will live in an all
    >>> SWT/Eclipse world soon :-(

    >> Yup that was my first thought too. Glassfish a goner too. All JBoss,
    >> all the time.

    >
    > I don't know about Glassfish, but I thought NetBeans was opensource...
    > so... not a goner?


    Both Glassfish and Netbeans are open source.

    But I doubt that Glassfish can continue keeping up with the
    Java EE standard if an IBM'ified SUN stopped all contribution.

    Netbeans has a much larger user base and don't have to
    implement a huge standard specification. So I think it would be OK.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Mar 18, 2009
    #14
  15. Mark Space

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Stefan Ram wrote:
    > Thomas Kellerer <> writes:
    >> I doubt that they would kill Swing because the installed base is just too big

    >
    > »Java Swing with 47% use, has surpassed WinForms as the dominant
    > GUI development toolkit, an increase of 27% since fall 2004.«
    >
    > http://weblogs.java.net/blog/hansmuller/archive/2005/10/official_swing.html


    I don't know how Evans came to that conclusion.

    It is obviously wrong.

    In 2004 WinForms was very new. It seems very weird that it was #1
    back then.

    VB6 must have been #1 back then.

    And WinForms is way bigger than Swing today.

    In the Java world the web / fat client gui ratio is huge.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Mar 18, 2009
    #15
  16. Mark Space

    Lew Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > Capitalism only works if you have 26+ competitors. Fewer than that and
    > you get informal price fixing.


    Can you substantiate that claim, and in particular the number "26"?

    That is a very interesting assertion.

    --
    Lew
     
    Lew, Mar 19, 2009
    #16
  17. Steve Sobol wrote:
    >
    > SWT is less cross-platform than Swing is, in that you have to ship
    > platform- specific DLL's with your app to get it to work.


    That's also true of Swing; the difference is that the system-specific
    Swing jars come with the JRE.
     
    Mike Schilling, Mar 19, 2009
    #17
  18. Re: IBM in talks to buy Sun

    Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    > wrote:
    >> On Mar 18, 2:22 pm, Mark Space <> wrote:
    >>> Qu0ll wrote:
    >>>> "Mark Space" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:rj9wl.26545$...
    >>>>> Just thought I'd mention this:
    >>>>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/technology/companies/19sun.html?hp>
    >>>>> "I.B.M. is in talks to buy Sun Microsystems in a proposed deal
    >>>>> valued at nearly $7 billion, a person with knowledge of the
    >>>>> negotiations said on Wednesday."
    >>>> Oh well, so much for Swing and NetBeans. We will live in an all
    >>>> SWT/Eclipse world soon :-(
    >>> Yup that was my first thought too. Glassfish a goner too. All
    >>> JBoss, all the time.

    >>
    >> I don't know about Glassfish, but I thought NetBeans was
    >> opensource... so... not a goner?

    >
    > Both Glassfish and Netbeans are open source.
    >
    > But I doubt that Glassfish can continue keeping up with the
    > Java EE standard if an IBM'ified SUN stopped all contribution.
    >
    > Netbeans has a much larger user base and don't have to
    > implement a huge standard specification. So I think it would be OK.



    Unless things have change a lot in the past 8 years, Netbeans is
    developed and maintained almost entirely by Sun employees. If they go
    away, so does Netbeans.
     
    Mike Schilling, Mar 19, 2009
    #18
  19. Mark Space

    Nigel Wade Guest

    Thomas Kellerer wrote:

    > Steve Sobol wrote on 18.03.2009 21:10:
    >> SWT is less cross-platform than Swing is, in that you have to ship platform-
    >> specific DLL's with your app to get it to work.

    >
    > I could image that IBM - if they really take complete control over Java -

    would
    > package the necessary Swing DLLs and jars into the JDK so that anyone who
    > installs a JDK has Swing and SWT installed (wouldn't hurt that much).


    It may hurt those platforms which are not supported by the standard JRE. Sun
    currently only supports Windows, Solaris and Linux (maybe IBM would extend that
    to include AIX). Any other platform has to "roll-their-own" and that may not be
    possible for SWT. I don't know, I don't use it, and I don't know under what
    license the source is available.

    >
    > I doubt that they would kill Swing because the installed base is just too big
    > (btw: the GUI tools for DB2 are all Swing based, not a very good

    implementation
    > of Swing, but nevertheless)


    Yeah, but they could easily freeze development, and cause death by a thousand
    cuts.

    --
    Nigel Wade
     
    Nigel Wade, Mar 19, 2009
    #19
  20. Mark Space

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:32:00 -0400, Lew <> wrote,
    quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >Can you substantiate that claim, and in particular the number "26"?


    read Axelrod's the Evolution of Cooperation.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/01...mp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0140124950

    I expand at
    http://mindprod.com/money/capitalism.html

    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "In the central North Pacific, plastic outweighs surface zooplankton 6 to 1."
    ~ Thomas M. Kostigen
     
    Roedy Green, Mar 19, 2009
    #20
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