popular CORBA systems ?

L

Lew

Can anybody please tell me an example of a CORBA system ?

I have checked wikipedia link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Object_Request_Broker_Architecture
and also googled ....but I'm not comfortable with the example of CORBA
systems .

Could you please provide few example of popular CORBA systems ?

Rather than repeat the research you've already done, we should know what about
the 1,910,000 or so results from Google didn't satisfy you. From what I see
the examples you get from
<http://lmgtfy.com/?q=popular+CORBA+systems>
are pretty comprehensive. In order to fill in the gaps for you, please tell
us what was missing.

<http://www.omg.org/gettingstarted/corbafaq.htm>
seems useful.
 
A

ashok maiti

Rather than repeat the research you've already done, we should know what about
the 1,910,000 or so results from Google didn't satisfy you.  From what I see
the examples you get from
<http://lmgtfy.com/?q=popular+CORBA+systems>
are pretty comprehensive.  In order to fill in the gaps for you, please tell
us what was missing.

<http://www.omg.org/gettingstarted/corbafaq.htm>
seems useful.

Those are quite complicated . In fact,they start from advanced toipcs.

CORBA, or Common Object Request Broker Architecture, is a standard
architecture for distributed object systems.

I want to know example of such "distributed object systems". This is
what I don't understand. What kind of system are those ?

For your convenience , here is what my line of thinking says..

Can I say mainframe application is a "distributed object systems" ?
[ I guess not]

Can I say application developed in Lotus notes is a "distributed
object systems" ? [ I guess not]

I am not clear with what is "distributed object systems" . Here is
the problem.

I also did a Google search for this also
http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&q=distributed+object+systems&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

But the results are not upto the mark and satisfactory. if you really
have a nice link which explain this stuff in particular are welcome.

Alternatively, if you have an idea on this concept and share that'll
be just wonderful. I'm not expecting jargons
 
R

RedGrittyBrick

Rather than repeat the research you've already done, we should know what about
the 1,910,000 or so results from Google didn't satisfy you. From what I see
the examples you get from
<http://lmgtfy.com/?q=popular+CORBA+systems>
are pretty comprehensive. In order to fill in the gaps for you, please tell
us what was missing.

<http://www.omg.org/gettingstarted/corbafaq.htm>
seems useful.

Those are quite complicated . In fact,they start from advanced toipcs.

CORBA, or Common Object Request Broker Architecture, is a standard
architecture for distributed object systems.

I want to know example of such "distributed object systems". This is
what I don't understand. What kind of system are those ?

For your convenience , here is what my line of thinking says..

Can I say mainframe application is a "distributed object systems" ?
[ I guess not]

Some probably are. Many are not.

Can I say application developed in Lotus notes is a "distributed
object systems" ? [ I guess not]

It's a long time since I worked with Lotus Notes, it is distributed† and
has to address many of the problems that CORBA does - e.g. security in a
distributed environment. However when I last was involved, I don't think
it could really be described as object-oriented in the sense meant in
CORBA descriptions.

I am not clear with what is "distributed object systems" . Here is
the problem.

Aha, this appears to be your real question.
I also did a Google search for this also
http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&q=distributed+object+systems&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

But the results are not upto the mark and satisfactory. if you really
have a nice link which explain this stuff in particular are welcome.

Alternatively, if you have an idea on this concept and share that'll
be just wonderful.


Google led me to

http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/corba/corba.html#anchor311757

I'm not expecting jargons

Why not? You may not *want* jargon but, by jiminy, you should certainly
*expect* jargon when you ask about CORBA.
 
J

jaap

Op 23-09-10 17:44, schreef ashok maiti:
Alternatively, if you have an idea on this concept and share that'll
be just wonderful. I'm not expecting jargons

Try to get some information about SOA. SOA is what CORBA tried to be.

Jaap
 
L

Lew

ashok said:
Those are quite complicated . In fact,they start from advanced toipcs.

I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. That FAQ, for example,
starts from basics AFAICS.

RedGrittyBrick has linked up to what looks like decent introductory
work.

Are there any CORBA articles at IBM Developerworks?
CORBA, or Common Object Request Broker Architecture, is a standard
architecture for distributed object systems.

I want to know  example of such "distributed object systems".  This is
what I don't understand. What kind of system are those ?

An object, in Java terms, is an instance of a class. A distributed
object system is one that instantiates objects on different hosts,
possibly even in different languages.

A purely Java CORBA system would host just Java objects on potentially
separate hosts, allowing clients to use those objects without having
to be in the same JVM.
For your convenience , here is what my line of thinking says..

Can I say mainframe application is a "distributed object systems" ?
[ I guess not]

No. It's strictly about "objects" in the sense of object-oriented
programming - a software concept.
Can I say  application developed in Lotus notes is a "distributed
object systems" ? [ I guess not]

Why do you think it might be? Why do you think it might not be?
I am not clear with what is "distributed object systems" . Here is
the  problem.

"distributed" - hosted on multiple hosts
"object" - instance of a class
"system" - coherent set of interacting agents and processes
I also did a Google search for this alsohttp://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&q=distributed+object+systems&aq=...

But  the results are not upto the mark and satisfactory. if you really

Picky, aren't we?
have a nice link which explain this stuff in particular are welcome.

I doubt I could find a link that would meet your standards.
 
T

Tom Anderson

Op 23-09-10 17:44, schreef ashok maiti:


Try to get some information about SOA. SOA is what CORBA tried to be.

SOA is one of the things some people tried to turn CORBA into.

CORBA is, at its core, a distributed object mechanism. It's an equivalent
of RMI. There's a lot more to it than its core, but the core is still the
most important thing about it.

tom
 
T

Tom Anderson

CORBA, or Common Object Request Broker Architecture, is a standard
architecture for distributed object systems.

I want to know example of such "distributed object systems". This is
what I don't understand. What kind of system are those ?

It means systems which:

1. Are composed of multiple processes, typically on different machines all
networked together

2. Are implemented in an object-oriented manner (whether in an OO language
or not)

3. Handle communication between the separate processes in terms of objects
(rather than messages, commands, or some other abstraction)
For your convenience , here is what my line of thinking says..

Can I say mainframe application is a "distributed object systems" ?
[ I guess not]

Typically not, because it's not composed of multiple processes. The
traditional mainframe app consists of a single chunk of software (which
could be multiple processes, although they don't really count as such for
our purposes) which interacts with fairly dumb clients through TN3270 or
HTTP or whatever.

If a mainframe app was built to interact with smarter clients, or other
mainframes, or backend systems doing other stuff, then it could be part of
a distributed system.
Can I say application developed in Lotus notes is a "distributed
object systems" ? [ I guess not]

It's distributed. I have no idea if it's an object system. I suspect not,
because i think there are clearer and more efficient abstractions for what
it does.
I am not clear with what is "distributed object systems" . Here is
the problem.

I worked on a classic one a long time ago.

It was in the field of research informatics; the problem was that there
were many different computer systems in a research organisation, each of
which provided access to some combination of data sets and analytical
services. For example, one machine might have a copy of the human genome,
and know how to search it. Another might have crystallographic structures
of lots of proteins. Another might be able to analyse structures to find
drug binding sites. Another might have a pile of excel spreadsheets with
the results of drug trials. Yet another might have data on the genetic
markers found in test subjects. A last could have a service to do linkage
analysis.

Lots of interesting analysis could be done by combining these datasets and
services. For example, you could look at people on whom some drugs were
effective and ineffective, and use linkage analysis to look for genetic
loci which determined responsiveness to the drug, then search for genes in
those loci which had known structures, and determine if any of them were
likely binding targets. That would tell you what protein the drug was
actually affecting, and which would give you ideas on how to improve it.

The problem was that the data and services were on separate and
unconnected systems.

The solution was to wrap each of those machines in an object model, then
build a CORBA layer which let them interact. So, the linkage analyser
could query the marker server, and so on.

The key thing about this is that the focus wasn't on writing software to
carry out some particular analysis, it was on building a foundation which
would enable hundreds of different such programs to be written quickly and
easily, so enabling more efficient research.

I wasn't there for long enough to see how it worked out (the company got
swallowed up several years ago - i don't know if that was a sign of
success or of failure), but it was interesting stuff.

tom
 
G

gk

CORBA, or Common Object Request Broker Architecture, is a standard
architecture for distributed object systems.
I want to know example of such "distributed object systems".  This is
what I don't understand. What kind of system are those ?

It means systems which:

1. Are composed of multiple processes, typically on different machines all
    networked together

2. Are implemented in an object-oriented manner (whether in an OO language
    or not)

3. Handle communication between the separate processes in terms of objects
    (rather than messages, commands, or some other abstraction)
For your convenience , here is what my line of thinking says..
Can I say mainframe application is a "distributed object systems" ?
[ I guess not]

Typically not, because it's not composed of multiple processes. The
traditional mainframe app consists of a single chunk of software (which
could be multiple processes, although they don't really count as such for
our purposes) which interacts with fairly dumb clients through TN3270 or
HTTP or whatever.

If a mainframe app was built to interact with smarter clients, or other
mainframes, or backend systems doing other stuff, then it could be part of
a distributed system.
Can I say  application developed in Lotus notes is a "distributed
object systems" ? [ I guess not]

It's distributed. I have no idea if it's an object system. I suspect not,
because i think there are clearer and more efficient abstractions for what
it does.
I am not clear with what is "distributed object systems" . Here is
the  problem.

I worked on a classic one a long time ago.

It was in the field of research informatics; the problem was that there
were many different computer systems in a research organisation, each of
which provided access to some combination of data sets and analytical
services. For example, one machine might have a copy of the human genome,
and know how to search it. Another might have crystallographic structures
of lots of proteins. Another might be able to analyse structures to find
drug binding sites. Another might have a pile of excel spreadsheets with
the results of drug trials. Yet another might have data on the genetic
markers found in test subjects. A last could have a service to do linkage
analysis.

Lots of interesting analysis could be done by combining these datasets and
services. For example, you could look at people on whom some drugs were
effective and ineffective, and use linkage analysis to look for genetic
loci which determined responsiveness to the drug, then search for genes in
those loci which had known structures, and determine if any of them were
likely binding targets. That would tell you what protein the drug was
actually affecting, and which would give you ideas on how to improve it.

The problem was that the data and services were on separate and
unconnected systems.

The solution was to wrap each of those machines in an object model, then
build a CORBA layer which let them interact. So, the linkage analyser
could query the marker server, and so on.

The key thing about this is that the focus wasn't on writing software to
carry out some particular analysis, it was on building a foundation which
would enable hundreds of different such programs to be written quickly and
easily, so enabling more efficient research.

I wasn't there for long enough to see how it worked out (the company got
swallowed up several years ago - i don't know if that was a sign of
success or of failure), but it was interesting stuff.

Thanks for sharing your experience .

when you said ..
very interesting ..... how did you do that ?


However, suppose an application has been developed with C++ and hosted
in HOST1 and another application has been developed with C and hosted
in HOST2.

can these two be brought under CORBA system now ? I am afraid we
can't because C is not a OO Language . we can' think objects
here...is that correct ?

I think unlike SOA , CORBA transfers objects whereas SOA transfers
XML.
 
O

Owen Jacobson

However, suppose an application has been developed with C++ and hosted
in HOST1 and another application has been developed with C and hosted
in HOST2.

can these two be brought under CORBA system now ? I am afraid we
can't because C is not a OO Language . we can' think objects
here...is that correct ?

It's completely possible to implement objects exposed via CORBA in C.
You end up doing a lot of bookkeeping yourself to keep track of which
function pointers and structs go with which CORBA object identifiers,
instead of having language features take care of it for you, though:
it's *convenient* to implement CORBA objects with language-level
objects, but not required.

This isn't just true for CORBA, either. The Windows COM and DCOM object
systems are heavily inspired by CORBA, and work with a notion of an
object, but it's possible to implement COM objects in C, too. In
principle, you could even implement an RMI service (another distributed
"object" system) for Java clients using C, if you had appropriate
protocol libraries. Distributed object systems all use a notion of
objects that's separate from the way objects work in any of the host
languages.
I think unlike SOA , CORBA transfers objects whereas SOA transfers
XML.

The whole point of CORBA is avoiding transferring objects around: one
program that implements a CORBA service hosts some objects, and when a
client program need to use those objects, the client program sends a
message containing a method call to the implementing program and gets
back a message containing the result. Messages, which are nothing more
than sequences of bytes, are the only thing that travel around the
network.

"SOA" isn't a specific technology at all, so your comparison is pretty
bogus. A better analogy would be SOAP*:

- CORBA has a name service; SOAP has URLs
- CORBA apps use ORBs to handle calls; SOAP uses web servers and HTTP
libraries
- CORBA objects expose methods; SOAP services expose methods
- CORBA methods are called using IIOP messages; SOAP uses XML messages
- CORBA APIs are described using IDL; SOAP uses WSDL to describe APIs

They're actually fairly similar technologies. However, CORBA specifies
many things that SOAP does not:

- CORBA provides support for several threading models; SOAP does not
consider threading at all.
- CORBA includes support for distributed transactions spanning
multiple processes; SOAP requires an additional spec (WS-Transaction)
which is not widely supported.
- CORBA supports transient objects; SOAP assumes services are fairly static.

However, the SOAP spec authors were aware of CORBA and learned some
things from failings of CORBA in the real world:

- IIOP messages are not human-readable; XML messages can be debugged by hand.
- IDL only offers a handful of field types; WSDL (XSD, actually)
allows new field types (simple types) to be defined as restrictions or
extensions of existing types.
- CORBA offers many features that see only limited use; SOAP offers
fewer features, making it easier to understand.

This list is not exhaustive; there are many other places where SOAP and
CORBA are very similar, and there are many other places where they
differ greatly.

I dont know if any of this helps. The key point is: don't get too hung
up on the term "object": every distributed system eventually has to
represent things using nothing but bytes, which means the individual
processes in the system can be written using any language that can
operate on bytes - which is basically all of them.

-o

* "Simple *Object* Access Protocol".
 
T

Tom Anderson

when you said ..

very interesting ..... how did you do that ?

A technique called 'programming'! We (they, really - i wasn't involved in
this) thought about what the services did, worked out a way to describe
that as objects, wrote IDL definitions for the objects, generated stubs,
and wrote the code to implement the interfaces in terms of the underlying
services. Sleeves rolled up, sweating over a hot compiler. There's no
other way to do it.
However, suppose an application has been developed with C++ and hosted
in HOST1 and another application has been developed with C and hosted
in HOST2.

can these two be brought under CORBA system now ?

Yes. Indeed, that is *exactly* what CORBA is for.
I am afraid we can't because C is not a OO Language . we can' think
objects here...is that correct ?

No. You can model anything with objects, you can implement object models
in C, and there are CORBA bindings to C.
I think unlike SOA , CORBA transfers objects whereas SOA transfers XML.

That statement betrays a superficial appreciation of matters. Objects are
a conceptual tool, XML is a file format. You can encode objects in XML,
and otherwise; you can use XML to move objects, and other things. CORBA is
a way of connecting programs on different computers; SOA is a way of
organising connected programs running on different computers.

tom
 
R

Robert Klemme

Can anybody please tell me an example of a CORBA system ?

I have checked wikipedia link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Object_Request_Broker_Architecture
and also googled ....but I'm not comfortable with the example of CORBA
systems .

Could you please provide few example of popular CORBA systems ?

At least at some point in time Gnome used CORBA.

http://developer.gnome.org/doc/guides/corba/html/book1.html
http://ww.telent.net/corba/gnome-lisp.html

I am not sure about today though. From these links it appears to be
still in use:

http://developer.gnome.org/doc/guides/corba/html/corba-module-orb-interface.html
http://developer.gnome.org/doc/guides/corba/html/p56.html

Cheers

robert
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

can these two be brought under CORBA system now ? I am afraid we
can't because C is not a OO Language . we can' think objects
here...is that correct ?

CORBA is object oriented.

I believe using CORBA from C can be done, but it must be a bit
easier using an object oriented language.
I think unlike SOA , CORBA transfers objects whereas SOA transfers
XML.

CORBA is a technology.

SOA is a way to architect large systems.

SOA can use many technologies. Including CORBA. It is probably
not a common combination due to the fact that CORBA is rare
these days.

Arne
 
T

Tom Anderson

CORBA is object oriented.

I believe using CORBA from C can be done, but it must be a bit
easier using an object oriented language.

Isn't everything?

Here's the spec for the C binding to CORBA:

http://www.omg.org/spec/C/1.0/

From which i take this example of a mapping. The IDL:

interface example1 {
long op1(in long arg1);
};

The C:

typedef CORBA_Object example1;
extern CORBA_long example1_op1(example1 o, CORBA_long arg1, CORBA_Environment *ev);

It's not entirely dissimilar to the java-to-C mapping embodied in JNI,
actually.

Here's an ORB (possibly two ORBs?) which comes with a C binding:

http://orbit-resource.sourceforge.net/

Just for fun, here's a CORBA binding to WSDL (haven't read, not sure
what that even means):

http://www.omg.org/spec/CORBABINDING/1.0/

tom
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

Can anybody please tell me an example of a CORBA system ?

I have checked wikipedia link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Object_Request_Broker_Architecture
and also googled ....but I'm not comfortable with the example of CORBA
systems .

Could you please provide few example of popular CORBA systems ?

Are you asking for CORBA platform software or for apps using CORBA.

CORBA platform software is relative easy to point to.

CORBA comes with Java!

:)

http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/corba/corba.html

should bring you up to speed.

Java EE also have some CORBA compatibility requirements, which
I was once told were driving the app server implementors nuts.

The most well-known CORBA server at least in Java circles were
Borland VisiBroker which were very closely related to their
Java EE server (Borland App Server).

It is a lot harder to find examples of apps using CORBA,
because in many ways CORBA is a thing of the past.

OMG has this list:
http://www.omg.org/corba/success.htm
(which I do not find that impressive)

Arne
 
T

Tom Anderson

It is a lot harder to find examples of apps using CORBA,
because in many ways CORBA is a thing of the past.

OMG has this list:
http://www.omg.org/corba/success.htm
(which I do not find that impressive)

Yeah, not a great list. Part of the problem is that successful uses can be
quite well hidden, inside the companies that built them. For example, i
believe that CORBA is still quite heavily used inside telecoms companies,
but there are none on that list.

tom
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

Yeah, not a great list. Part of the problem is that successful uses can
be quite well hidden, inside the companies that built them. For example,
i believe that CORBA is still quite heavily used inside telecoms
companies, but there are none on that list.

I am also pretty sure that one of the big airline booking
systems (Amadeus?) used CORBA.

And some of the large companies in the financial sector.

A lot of those systems probably still exists, but I think
new development is limited - at least that is what
the demands for skills indicate.

Arne
 
E

Esmond Pitt

I think that is a contradiction in terms. CORBA is not much used in
Java. See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/rmi.html
But that's just what it says on your hobby site. It's not an
authoritative reference. And that page contains at least one major error
that I told you about several years ago, whereupon you published your
bizarre libel.

IBM WebSphere runs entirely on RMI/IIOP, which is CORBA, and there are
quite enough major deployments of that out there to explode the
'contradiction in terms' notion.
 

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