prevalence of different JVM versions

Discussion in 'Java' started by Dawid Michalczyk, Jul 27, 2007.

  1. Hi,

    I was wondering if there are any stats online on the prevalence of the
    different JVMs that regular internet users have installed on their
    computers. It is my understanding that Java 1.1 is no longer the most
    widely available. Thanks.

    --
    Dawid Michalczyk
    http://www.comp.eonworks.com _Linux SysAdmin and Webmaster scripts_
    Dawid Michalczyk, Jul 27, 2007
    #1
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  2. Dawid Michalczyk

    kcwong Guest

    On Jul 27, 9:34 am, Dawid Michalczyk <> wrote:
    > I was wondering if there are any stats online on the prevalence of the
    > different JVMs that regular internet users have installed on their
    > computers. It is my understanding that Java 1.1 is no longer the most
    > widely available. Thanks.


    Depends on where you look... in corporate environments, they have
    those expensive but old servers from Sun, IBM or other vendors. If the
    official word is that newer JVMs are not officially supported,
    companies will play safe and not upgrade.

    But I assume you're talking about normal users... which I have no
    data. I *guess* people just use whatever they've already installed,
    until they are required to upgrade or they can't use a certain piece
    of Java software.

    I recommend studying Java Web Start: http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/

    Quoting the Java Web Start FAQ:
    (http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/javaws/
    developersguide/faq.html#101)
    <quote>
    Why should I use Java Web Start?

    It's an easy, robust, and secure way to deploy applications directly
    from the web. Developers can make applications readily available via
    the web. In addition, Java Web Start provides Java runtime environment
    (JRE) management capabilities, it's easy to set up, it's browser-
    independent, and it's an efficient way to deploy web application
    solutions.

    Users can easily access applications much as they would a web page--
    without a separate installation step. From the desktop, users can
    access and use Java applications, using a richer and more responsive
    user interface than is available on a web page. And, once a Java Web
    Start based application is installed, users simply click to run the
    application whenever needed.

    Users do not need to manually update applications because each time
    they launch an application, it is transparently updated from the web--
    so they always use the most recent version available.

    <snip>

    My application requires a specific version of the JRE. How do I
    specify this my JNLP file?

    The tag <j2se version="versionNum"> specifies a platform version,
    where versionNum is 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, or 1.5.

    You can request a specific product version by including a vendor URL
    in the href attribute. For Sun's JREs, the URL is http://java.sun.com/products/autodl/j2se
    For example, the following J2SE tag will request any Sun 1.3.1
    implementation:

    <j2se version="1.3.1*" href="http://java.sun.com/products/autodl/j2se"/
    >


    You can see all the versions of the installed JREs in the Java tab of
    the Java Control Panel.
    </quote>
    kcwong, Jul 27, 2007
    #2
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  3. kcwong wrote:
    > On Jul 27, 9:34 am, Dawid Michalczyk <> wrote:
    >> I was wondering if there are any stats online on the prevalence of the
    >> different JVMs that regular internet users have installed on their
    >> computers. It is my understanding that Java 1.1 is no longer the most
    >> widely available. Thanks.

    >
    > Depends on where you look... in corporate environments, they have
    > those expensive but old servers from Sun, IBM or other vendors. If the
    > official word is that newer JVMs are not officially supported,
    > companies will play safe and not upgrade.
    >
    > But I assume you're talking about normal users... which I have no
    > data. I *guess* people just use whatever they've already installed,
    > until they are required to upgrade or they can't use a certain piece
    > of Java software.
    >


    Well, I'm asking about this because a couple years ago I started writing
    an online game in Java 1.1 as that was still the most widely used
    version of Java on windows PCs. The game is a hobby project and I work
    on it on and off when I have the time. But since some things are much
    easier accomplished in Java 1.3 I was wondering if I now could start
    using 1.3 features without loosing too much audience.

    --
    Dawid Michalczyk
    http://www.comp.eonworks.com _Linux SysAdmin and Webmaster scripts_
    Dawid Michalczyk, Jul 28, 2007
    #3
  4. Dawid Michalczyk

    Lew Guest

    Dawid Michalczyk wrote:
    > kcwong wrote:
    >> On Jul 27, 9:34 am, Dawid Michalczyk <> wrote:
    >>> I was wondering if there are any stats online on the prevalence of the
    >>> different JVMs that regular internet users have installed on their
    >>> computers. It is my understanding that Java 1.1 is no longer the most
    >>> widely available. Thanks.

    >>
    >> Depends on where you look... in corporate environments, they have
    >> those expensive but old servers from Sun, IBM or other vendors. If the
    >> official word is that newer JVMs are not officially supported,
    >> companies will play safe and not upgrade.
    >>
    >> But I assume you're talking about normal users... which I have no
    >> data. I *guess* people just use whatever they've already installed,
    >> until they are required to upgrade or they can't use a certain piece
    >> of Java software.
    >>

    >
    > Well, I'm asking about this because a couple years ago I started writing
    > an online game in Java 1.1 as that was still the most widely used
    > version of Java on windows PCs. The game is a hobby project and I work
    > on it on and off when I have the time. But since some things are much
    > easier accomplished in Java 1.3 I was wondering if I now could start
    > using 1.3 features without loosing too much audience.


    Java 1.3 is obsolete. Sun pulled support for it several months ago. Java 1.4
    is in its "End-of-Life" process already, on the road to not being supported in
    the next several months or a year. Java 5 is already one version back. The
    current version is Java 6, out since last year.

    I wouldn't suggest using an unsupported, obsolete platform for a new product.

    --
    Lew
    Lew, Jul 28, 2007
    #4
  5. Dawid Michalczyk

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 00:29:47 -0400, Lew <> wrote,
    quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >I wouldn't suggest using an unsupported, obsolete platform for a new product.


    He still develop with JDK 1.6, just avoid using the recent features.
    His code is no less supported than any other.

    It is peculiar, most apps now are self-updating. The assumption is
    the user has the latest version, and if he does not, the program will
    auto-update before continuing.

    Sun is perhaps overly willing to support old versions. It holds
    everyone back since you dare not use the new features.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    The Java Glossary
    http://mindprod.com
    Roedy Green, Jul 28, 2007
    #5
  6. Dawid Michalczyk wrote:
    > Well, I'm asking about this because a couple years ago I started writing
    > an online game in Java 1.1 as that was still the most widely used
    > version of Java on windows PCs. The game is a hobby project and I work
    > on it on and off when I have the time. But since some things are much
    > easier accomplished in Java 1.3 I was wondering if I now could start
    > using 1.3 features without loosing too much audience.


    It is a mess.

    There are:
    - old Windows & IE systems with MS Java (version 1.1)
    - new Windows & IE with no Java
    - new Windows & IE with newer SUN Java (1.5 or 1.6)
    - many platforms & FF with newer SUN Java (1.5 or 1.6)

    There are no silver bullet.

    If the potential users of your applet are computer knowledgeable,
    then building for 1.5 and higher and putting a note with a link
    to get Java would probably be OK.

    Arne
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=, Jul 29, 2007
    #6
  7. On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 15:15:18 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    > It is a mess.
    >
    > There are:
    > - old Windows & IE systems with MS Java (version 1.1)
    > - new Windows & IE with no Java
    > - new Windows & IE with newer SUN Java (1.5 or 1.6)
    > - many platforms & FF with newer SUN Java (1.5 or 1.6)


    Debian and a few other systems use GCJ by default, which grants you only
    1.4 (I think) and no Swing.

    > If the potential users of your applet are computer knowledgeable, then
    > building for 1.5 and higher and putting a note with a link to get Java
    > would probably be OK.


    Java 1.3 is definitely a safe bet, only old MS Java uses 1.1; 1.4 you're
    probably OK; Java 5 with a note is probably the best way to go.

    I would eschew Java 6 at least for now: I would say no more than 60-70%
    of computers have it.
    Joshua Cranmer, Jul 29, 2007
    #7
  8. Joshua Cranmer wrote:
    > On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 15:15:18 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    >> It is a mess.
    >>
    >> There are:
    >> - old Windows & IE systems with MS Java (version 1.1)
    >> - new Windows & IE with no Java
    >> - new Windows & IE with newer SUN Java (1.5 or 1.6)
    >> - many platforms & FF with newer SUN Java (1.5 or 1.6)

    >
    > Debian and a few other systems use GCJ by default, which grants you only
    > 1.4 (I think) and no Swing.


    I would ask the gcj users to get SUN/IBM/BEA Java without
    blinking.

    Arne
    =?UTF-8?B?QXJuZSBWYWpow7hq?=, Jul 30, 2007
    #8
  9. Dawid Michalczyk

    Lars Enderin Guest

    Arne Vajhøj skrev:
    > Joshua Cranmer wrote:
    >> On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 15:15:18 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    >>> It is a mess.
    >>>
    >>> There are:
    >>> - old Windows & IE systems with MS Java (version 1.1)
    >>> - new Windows & IE with no Java
    >>> - new Windows & IE with newer SUN Java (1.5 or 1.6)
    >>> - many platforms & FF with newer SUN Java (1.5 or 1.6)

    >>
    >> Debian and a few other systems use GCJ by default, which grants you
    >> only 1.4 (I think) and no Swing.

    >
    > I would ask the gcj users to get SUN/IBM/BEA Java without
    > blinking.


    "Without blinking" is a scandinavism. You probably mean "without
    hesitation" or "I wouldn't hesitate to ask".
    Lars Enderin, Jul 30, 2007
    #9
  10. Dawid Michalczyk

    Lew Guest

    [OT] Re: "without blinking"

    Arne Vajhøj skrev:
    >> I would ask the gcj users to get SUN/IBM/BEA Java without
    >> blinking.


    Lars Enderin wrote:
    > "Without blinking" is a scandinavism. You probably mean "without
    > hesitation" or "I wouldn't hesitate to ask".


    May one assume that you are referring to the translation of the Scandinavian
    term into English?

    The phrase "[to do something] without blinking" is quite common in the United
    States. The Scandinavians don't get to lay exclusive claim to this one.

    --
    Lew
    Lew, Jul 30, 2007
    #10
  11. Dawid Michalczyk

    Lars Enderin Guest

    Re: [OT] Re: "without blinking"

    Lew skrev:
    > Arne Vajhøj skrev:
    >>> I would ask the gcj users to get SUN/IBM/BEA Java without
    >>> blinking.

    >
    > Lars Enderin wrote:
    >> "Without blinking" is a scandinavism. You probably mean "without
    >> hesitation" or "I wouldn't hesitate to ask".

    >
    > May one assume that you are referring to the translation of the
    > Scandinavian term into English?
    >
    > The phrase "[to do something] without blinking" is quite common in the
    > United States. The Scandinavians don't get to lay exclusive claim to
    > this one.
    >

    That was news to me. Maybe it's a Scandinavian influence?
    Lars Enderin, Jul 30, 2007
    #11
  12. Re: [OT] Re: "without blinking"

    Lars Enderin wrote:
    > Lew skrev:
    >> Arne Vajhøj skrev:
    >>>> I would ask the gcj users to get SUN/IBM/BEA Java without
    >>>> blinking.

    >>
    >> Lars Enderin wrote:
    >>> "Without blinking" is a scandinavism. You probably mean "without
    >>> hesitation" or "I wouldn't hesitate to ask".

    >>
    >> May one assume that you are referring to the translation of the
    >> Scandinavian term into English?
    >>
    >> The phrase "[to do something] without blinking" is quite common in the
    >> United States. The Scandinavians don't get to lay exclusive claim to
    >> this one.
    >>

    > That was news to me. Maybe it's a Scandinavian influence?


    Doesn't it imply "did it with out surprise" in American English? As in
    "He didn't blink when his boss told him he had to go to San Jose"
    David Zimmerman, Jul 30, 2007
    #12
  13. Dawid Michalczyk

    Lew Guest

    Re: [OT] Re: "without blinking"

    David Zimmerman wrote:
    > Lars Enderin wrote:
    >> Lew skrev:
    >>> Arne Vajhøj skrev:
    >>>>> I would ask the gcj users to get SUN/IBM/BEA Java without
    >>>>> blinking.
    >>>
    >>> Lars Enderin wrote:
    >>>> "Without blinking" is a scandinavism. You probably mean "without
    >>>> hesitation" or "I wouldn't hesitate to ask".
    >>>
    >>> May one assume that you are referring to the translation of the
    >>> Scandinavian term into English?
    >>>
    >>> The phrase "[to do something] without blinking" is quite common in
    >>> the United States. The Scandinavians don't get to lay exclusive
    >>> claim to this one.
    >>>

    >> That was news to me. Maybe it's a Scandinavian influence?

    >
    > Doesn't it imply "did it with out surprise" in American English? As in
    > "He didn't blink when his boss told him he had to go to San Jose"


    I have heard it both that way and the way Arne used it, meaning "without
    hesitation". "I'd take that job without blinking!" "I'd recommend that movie
    without blinking!"

    Lars is likely right about the Scandinavian influence. Major sections of the
    U.S. were settled by Scandinavian folk, including parts where I was partly raised.

    --
    Lew
    Lew, Jul 30, 2007
    #13
  14. Dawid Michalczyk

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 03:34:39 +0200, Dawid Michalczyk <>
    wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >I was wondering if there are any stats online on the prevalence of the
    >different JVMs that regular internet users have installed on their
    >computers. It is my understanding that Java 1.1 is no longer the most
    >widely available. Thanks.


    You might collect some stats by offering some popular Applet on your
    website, and instrument it to send the IP and Java version being used
    to the server. You would need to pick an attribute with that would
    appeal to the same audience your final app will. You use the IP do
    dedup to help foil brats trying to skew your stats or just from people
    addictied to your Applet



    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    The Java Glossary
    http://mindprod.com
    Roedy Green, Jul 31, 2007
    #14
  15. Re: [OT] Re: "without blinking"

    Lew wrote:
    > David Zimmerman wrote:
    >> Lars Enderin wrote:
    >>> Lew skrev:
    >>>> Arne Vajhøj skrev:
    >>>>>> I would ask the gcj users to get SUN/IBM/BEA Java without
    >>>>>> blinking.
    >>>>
    >>>> Lars Enderin wrote:
    >>>>> "Without blinking" is a scandinavism. You probably mean "without
    >>>>> hesitation" or "I wouldn't hesitate to ask".
    >>>>
    >>>> May one assume that you are referring to the translation of the
    >>>> Scandinavian term into English?
    >>>>
    >>>> The phrase "[to do something] without blinking" is quite common in
    >>>> the United States. The Scandinavians don't get to lay exclusive
    >>>> claim to this one.
    >>>>
    >>> That was news to me. Maybe it's a Scandinavian influence?

    >>
    >> Doesn't it imply "did it with out surprise" in American English? As in
    >> "He didn't blink when his boss told him he had to go to San Jose"

    >
    > I have heard it both that way and the way Arne used it, meaning "without
    > hesitation". "I'd take that job without blinking!" "I'd recommend that
    > movie without blinking!"
    >
    > Lars is likely right about the Scandinavian influence. Major sections
    > of the U.S. were settled by Scandinavian folk, including parts where I
    > was partly raised.


    And large parts of England were under Scandinavian rule during the
    Anglo-Saxon period.

    However, "blink" is etymologiclly related to "blench", so it's as likely
    as not to be native.
    --
    John W. Kennedy
    If Bill Gates believes in "intelligent design", why can't he apply it to
    Windows?
    John W. Kennedy, Aug 1, 2007
    #15
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