Python/Parrot still alive?

Discussion in 'Python' started by Berlin Brown, Feb 8, 2004.

  1. Berlin Brown

    Berlin Brown Guest

    Is there going to be a python parrot release. I looking on the web and
    seeing stuff, stilly pending. That would be cool to see application
    servers, via python(I think that could only be with a virtual machine).
    Could be wrong of course.
     
    Berlin Brown, Feb 8, 2004
    #1
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  2. Berlin Brown wrote:
    > Is there going to be a python parrot release. I looking on the web and
    > seeing stuff, stilly pending. That would be cool to see application
    > servers, via python(I think that could only be with a virtual machine).
    > Could be wrong of course.


    If you believe that application servers require Parrot because it
    has a virtual machine, you are certainly wrong:
    - Python does have a virtual machine even without Parrot.
    - Applications servers do not fundamentally require virtual
    machines.

    Regards,
    Martin
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=, Feb 8, 2004
    #2
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  3. Berlin Brown

    Paul Prescod Guest

    Martin v. Löwis wrote:

    > ...
    >
    > If you believe that application servers require Parrot because it
    > has a virtual machine, you are certainly wrong:
    > - Python does have a virtual machine even without Parrot.
    > - Applications servers do not fundamentally require virtual
    > machines.


    It is interesting how interpreters have been rebranded as "virtual
    machines." Python people still use the word "interpreter" and that is
    probably not great from a marketing point of view.

    Paul Prescod
     
    Paul Prescod, Feb 8, 2004
    #3
  4. Paul Prescod wrote:
    > It is interesting how interpreters have been rebranded as "virtual
    > machines." Python people still use the word "interpreter" and that is
    > probably not great from a marketing point of view.


    I personally make a distinction between an interpreter and a virtual
    machine. A virtual machine is one that has a "machine code", i.e. a
    set of abstract instructions, operating on machine state. In Python,
    the abstract set of instructions is the Python byte code, and the
    abstract state is the collection of frame objects, etc.

    Some interpreters don't have virtual machines, e.g. Tcl did not
    have one until Tcl 8 or so. OTOH, not all virtual machines are
    interpreted, e.g. MS .NET is always compiled to native code
    ("just in time" :) instead of being interpreted.

    Regards,
    Martin
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=, Feb 8, 2004
    #4
  5. "Martin v. Löwis" <> wrote in message news:<c068ah$o0p$00$-online.com>...

    > Some interpreters don't have virtual machines, e.g. Tcl did not
    > have one until Tcl 8 or so. OTOH, not all virtual machines are


    So Ruby is an interpreter and not a virutal machine ?
     
    Lothar Scholz, Feb 9, 2004
    #5
  6. Lothar Scholz wrote:
    >>Some interpreters don't have virtual machines, e.g. Tcl did not
    >>have one until Tcl 8 or so. OTOH, not all virtual machines are

    >
    >
    > So Ruby is an interpreter and not a virutal machine ?


    I don't know how Ruby is implemented.

    On the language level, there are not interpreted or compiled
    languages - there are only interpreters and compilers, and they
    are on the level of language implementation. So your question
    would be only valid for "Ruby 1.8.1" or some other specific
    version. However, I could not answer the question for any Ruby
    version.

    Regards,
    Martin
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=, Feb 9, 2004
    #6
  7. Berlin Brown

    Peter Hansen Guest

    Lothar Scholz wrote:
    >
    > "Martin v. Löwis" <> wrote in message news:<c068ah$o0p$00$-online.com>...
    >
    > > Some interpreters don't have virtual machines, e.g. Tcl did not
    > > have one until Tcl 8 or so. OTOH, not all virtual machines are

    >
    > So Ruby is an interpreter and not a virutal machine ?


    Does Ruby have a "byte code" such as Python and Java have?
     
    Peter Hansen, Feb 9, 2004
    #7
  8. Peter Hansen <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > Lothar Scholz wrote:
    > >
    > > "Martin v. Löwis" <> wrote in message news:<c068ah$o0p$00$-online.com>...
    > >
    > > > Some interpreters don't have virtual machines, e.g. Tcl did not
    > > > have one until Tcl 8 or so. OTOH, not all virtual machines are

    > >
    > > So Ruby is an interpreter and not a virutal machine ?

    >
    > Does Ruby have a "byte code" such as Python and Java have?


    No. It keeps the parse tree in memory and traverse it during
    evaluation. Same as all lisp interpreters(?!?!).
     
    Lothar Scholz, Feb 10, 2004
    #8
  9. (Lothar Scholz) wrote in message news:<>...
    > Peter Hansen <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > > Lothar Scholz wrote:
    > > >
    > > > "Martin v. Löwis" <> wrote in message news:<c068ah$o0p$00$-online.com>...
    > > >
    > > > > Some interpreters don't have virtual machines, e.g. Tcl did not
    > > > > have one until Tcl 8 or so. OTOH, not all virtual machines are
    > > >
    > > > So Ruby is an interpreter and not a virutal machine ?

    > >
    > > Does Ruby have a "byte code" such as Python and Java have?

    >
    > No. It keeps the parse tree in memory and traverse it during
    > evaluation. Same as all lisp interpreters(?!?!).


    Definitely not the same as Lisp. In actuality, a Common Lisp
    implementation that compiles to bytecode rather than native code is
    uncommon; the majority of quality (i.e., complete) implementations
    compile to native code.

    Jeremy
     
    Jeremy Fincher, Feb 10, 2004
    #9
  10. (Jeremy Fincher) writes:

    > (Lothar Scholz) wrote in message news:<>...
    > > Peter Hansen <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > > > Lothar Scholz wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > "Martin v. Löwis" <> wrote in message news:<c068ah$o0p$00$-online.com>...
    > > > >
    > > > > > Some interpreters don't have virtual machines, e.g. Tcl did not
    > > > > > have one until Tcl 8 or so. OTOH, not all virtual machines are
    > > > >
    > > > > So Ruby is an interpreter and not a virutal machine ?
    > > >
    > > > Does Ruby have a "byte code" such as Python and Java have?

    > >
    > > No. It keeps the parse tree in memory and traverse it during
    > > evaluation. Same as all lisp interpreters(?!?!).

    >
    > Definitely not the same as Lisp. In actuality, a Common Lisp
    > implementation that compiles to bytecode rather than native code is
    > uncommon; the majority of quality (i.e., complete) implementations
    > compile to native code.


    Well, yeah, but I think what happens to stuff you type into the repl
    of e.g. CMUCL could be described as traversing the parse tree. CMUCL
    has a bytecode compiler and a native compiler *as well*, but I think
    you have to ask for them. SBCL (and some others: Corman, MCL)
    compiles absolutely everything to native code, I think.

    Cheers,
    mwh

    --
    If i don't understand lisp, it would be wise to not bray about
    how lisp is stupid or otherwise criticize, because my stupidity
    would be archived and open for all in the know to see.
    -- Xah, comp.lang.lisp
     
    Michael Hudson, Feb 10, 2004
    #10
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