Python trademark under attack -- the PSF needs your help

Discussion in 'Python' started by Steven D'Aprano, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. Hello all,


    The Python Software Foundation is the organisation which protects and
    manages the "boring" bits of keeping a big open source project alive: the
    legal and contractual parts, funding for projects, trademarks and
    copyrights.

    If you are based in Europe, or know somebody who uses Python in Europe, the
    PSF needs your help.

    There is a company in the UK who has applied to trademark the name "Python"
    and are claiming the *exclusive* right to use the word "Python" for
    software, servers, and web services over the entire European Union.

    You can read more about this here:

    http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2013/02/python-trademark-at-risk-in-europe-we.html

    If you have documentation of European user groups, trade associations,
    books, conferences, scans of job advertisements for Python programmers,
    software that uses some variation of "Python" in the name, etc. your
    evidence will be helpful in defeating this attempted grab of the Python
    name.

    You can also testify to the fact that when you read or hear of the
    name "Python" in relation to computers and the Internet, you think of
    Python the programming language.


    Thank you.



    --
    Steven
    Steven D'Aprano, Feb 14, 2013
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Giles Coochey, 15.02.2013 12:24:
    > On 14/02/2013 21:52, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
    >> Hello all,
    >>
    >> The Python Software Foundation is the organisation which protects and
    >> manages the "boring" bits of keeping a big open source project alive: the
    >> legal and contractual parts, funding for projects, trademarks and
    >> copyrights.
    >>
    >> If you are based in Europe, or know somebody who uses Python in Europe, the
    >> PSF needs your help.
    >>
    >> There is a company in the UK who has applied to trademark the name "Python"
    >> and are claiming the *exclusive* right to use the word "Python" for
    >> software, servers, and web services over the entire European Union.
    >>
    >> You can read more about this here:
    >>
    >> http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2013/02/python-trademark-at-risk-in-europe-we.html
    >>
    >>
    >> If you have documentation of European user groups, trade associations,
    >> books, conferences, scans of job advertisements for Python programmers,
    >> software that uses some variation of "Python" in the name, etc. your
    >> evidence will be helpful in defeating this attempted grab of the Python
    >> name.
    >>

    > Err...
    > http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=python
    >
    >
    > One would think that is enough. 8,457 published results - practically all
    > of them referring to Python (the language), none to my knowledge referring
    > to [domain stripped]
    >
    > Surely and open/shut case.


    I'm sure it's a pure marketing thing for their domain. I'd expect the
    number of links to their site to rise rapidly during the next weeks, that's
    very likely worth the bit of money they'd pay to their lawyer(s). Seriously
    - who's ever heard of them before this? So it worked already, didn't it?

    My advice: don't mention their name or their domain in any of your blog
    posts etc., and definitely don't link to them.

    Stefan
    Stefan Behnel, Feb 15, 2013
    #2
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  3. Giles Coochey wrote:

    [...]
    >> If you have documentation of European user groups, trade associations,
    >> books, conferences, scans of job advertisements for Python programmers,
    >> software that uses some variation of "Python" in the name, etc. your
    >> evidence will be helpful in defeating this attempted grab of the Python
    >> name.
    >>

    > Err...
    >http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=python
    >
    > One would think that is enough.


    Giles, thank you for taking the time to respond, but I'm sorry to say that I
    don't think your response is helpful. Unless you are a trademark lawyer,
    your intuition about how trivially easy this will be is probably not going
    to be accurate.

    You would probably think it was presumptuous for a trademark lawyer to
    venture an opinion on how easy it is to write some piece of software. The
    same applies in reverse. We need to listen to the experts in European
    trademark law, those who know what sort of evidence the European Trademark
    Office consider meaningful and significant. These people have told the
    Python Software Foundation what needs to be done to fight this trademark
    application, and trust me, "spend two seconds doing a search on Amazon" is
    *not* it.

    Dismissing the trademark grab as:

    > Surely and open/shut case.


    is the simplest way to ensure that the PSF loses their appeal and the right
    to the name "Python" in Europe.

    If anyone has the sort of documentary evidence which the PSF has requested,
    and can scan and email them to the PSF, that will be helpful. If anyone is
    willing and able to donate money to the foundation to help with the legal
    expenses, estimated at tens of thousands of dollars, to challenge this
    trademark application, that will also be helpful. If you have a blog,
    please consider spreading the word.

    The PSF needs all the help it can get, but it needs to be the sort of help
    set out here:

    http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2013/02/python-trademark-at-risk-in-europe-we.html

    If anyone is thinking of doing something trivially easy which anyone can do,
    such as googling "python", trust me, the PSF has already done it. The PSF
    is looking for the sort of help that they can't get by typing into a search
    engine. If anyone can help, that's great. If you can't help, then please
    don't discourage those who can by claiming this is trivial.

    Thank you.


    --
    Steven
    Steven D'Aprano, Feb 15, 2013
    #3
  4. On 15/02/2013 14:04, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
    > Giles Coochey wrote:
    >
    > [...]
    >>> If you have documentation of European user groups, trade associations,
    >>> books, conferences, scans of job advertisements for Python programmers,
    >>> software that uses some variation of "Python" in the name, etc. your
    >>> evidence will be helpful in defeating this attempted grab of the Python
    >>> name.
    >>>

    >> Err...
    >> http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=python
    >>
    >> One would think that is enough.

    > Giles, thank you for taking the time to respond, but I'm sorry to say that I
    > don't think your response is helpful. Unless you are a trademark lawyer,
    > your intuition about how trivially easy this will be is probably not going
    > to be accurate.
    >
    > You would probably think it was presumptuous for a trademark lawyer to
    > venture an opinion on how easy it is to write some piece of software. The
    > same applies in reverse. We need to listen to the experts in European
    > trademark law, those who know what sort of evidence the European Trademark
    > Office consider meaningful and significant. These people have told the
    > Python Software Foundation what needs to be done to fight this trademark
    > application, and trust me, "spend two seconds doing a search on Amazon"is
    > *not* it.
    >
    > Dismissing the trademark grab as:
    >
    >> Surely and open/shut case.

    > is the simplest way to ensure that the PSF loses their appeal and the right
    > to the name "Python" in Europe.
    >
    > If anyone has the sort of documentary evidence which the PSF has requested,
    > and can scan and email them to the PSF, that will be helpful. If anyoneis
    > willing and able to donate money to the foundation to help with the legal
    > expenses, estimated at tens of thousands of dollars, to challenge this
    > trademark application, that will also be helpful. If you have a blog,
    > please consider spreading the word.
    >
    > The PSF needs all the help it can get, but it needs to be the sort of help
    > set out here:
    >
    > http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2013/02/python-trademark-at-risk-in-europe-we.html
    >
    > If anyone is thinking of doing something trivially easy which anyone can do,
    > such as googling "python", trust me, the PSF has already done it. The PSF
    > is looking for the sort of help that they can't get by typing into a search
    > engine. If anyone can help, that's great. If you can't help, then please
    > don't discourage those who can by claiming this is trivial.
    >
    > Thank you.
    >
    >

    In order to register "Python" in Europe it has to be deemed registrable
    by OHIM.

    It is clearly not registrable as there is substantial prior use.

    --
    Regards,

    Giles Coochey, CCNA, CCNAS
    NetSecSpec Ltd
    +44 (0) 7983 877438
    http://www.coochey.net
    http://www.netsecspec.co.uk
    Giles Coochey, Feb 15, 2013
    #4
  5. Steven D'Aprano

    Chris Rebert Guest

    On Feb 15, 2013 8:13 AM, "Jason Swails" <> wrote:
    <SNIP>
    > I'm not offering much help here, more like wondering aloud. Doesn't

    Google (not to mention other software companies) have an interest staked in
    binding the Python name with the Python language? I can't imagine
    python.co.uk staging a successful campaign against one of the best-known
    companies in computers (that employs Python's creator, no less).

    That very last part is actually no longer the case:
    https://tech.dropbox.com/2012/12/welcome-guido/
    Regardless, your general point still stands.

    Cheers,
    Chris
    Chris Rebert, Feb 15, 2013
    #5
  6. Stefan Behnel wrote:

    > I'm sure it's a pure marketing thing for their domain. I'd expect the
    > number of links to their site to rise rapidly during the next weeks,
    > that's very likely worth the bit of money they'd pay to their lawyer(s).


    I doubt that. The amount of time required to make a trademark application is
    significant, measured in months or years of elapsed time and persons-days
    or -weeks, in effort.


    > Seriously - who's ever heard of them before this? So it worked already,
    > didn't it?


    Just because they aren't Microsoft or Apple doesn't mean they aren't a
    serious vendor in their space.


    > My advice: don't mention their name or their domain in any of your blog
    > posts etc., and definitely don't link to them.


    This would be the "there's no such thing as bad publicity" theory.



    --
    Steven
    Steven D'Aprano, Feb 16, 2013
    #6
  7. Steven D'Aprano

    Quint Rankid Guest

    On Feb 14, 4:52 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
    > wrote:

    > You can also testify to the fact that when you read or hear of the
    > name "Python" in relation to computers and the Internet, you think of
    > Python the programming language.


    Has anyone considered a search of Amazon for Python, or more
    particularly searches at sites that Amazon uses to do business in
    Europe?
    Quint Rankid, Feb 16, 2013
    #7
  8. Steven D'Aprano

    llanitedave Guest

    llanitedave, Feb 16, 2013
    #8
  9. Python trademark - A request for civility

    Folks,

    It seems that people have been sending threats and abuse to the company
    claiming a trademark on the name "Python". And somebody, somewhere, may
    have launched a DDOS attack on their website.

    The Python Software Foundation has asked the community for restraint and
    civility during this dispute. Abuse and threats just bring the Python
    community into disrepute.

    http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2013/02/asking-for-civility-during-our.html



    --
    Steven
    Steven D'Aprano, Feb 16, 2013
    #9
  10. Re: Python trademark - A request for civility

    hi,

    there are also

    ruby.co.uk
    lua.co.uk

    in my opinion someone who is on the ruby-/lua-malinglist too should warn these guys

    * Steven D'Aprano <> [2013-02-16 06:50]:
    > Folks,
    >
    > It seems that people have been sending threats and abuse to the company
    > claiming a trademark on the name "Python". And somebody, somewhere, may
    > have launched a DDOS attack on their website.
    >
    > The Python Software Foundation has asked the community for restraint and
    > civility during this dispute. Abuse and threats just bring the Python
    > community into disrepute.


    yeah - that's also my opinion!

    Michael
    >
    > http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2013/02/asking-for-civility-during-our.html
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Steven
    >
    > --
    > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


    --
    Michael Poeltl
    Computational Materials Physics voice: +43-1-4277-51409
    Univ. Wien, Sensengasse 8/12 fax: +43-1-4277-9514 (or 9513)
    A-1090 Wien, AUSTRIA cmp.mpi.univie.ac.at
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    slackware-13.37 | vim-7.3 | python-3.2.3 | mutt-1.5.21 | elinks-0.12
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Michael Poeltl, Feb 16, 2013
    #10
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