Python's popularity

Discussion in 'Python' started by walterbyrd, Dec 22, 2008.

  1. walterbyrd

    walterbyrd Guest

    I have read that python is the world's 3rd most popular language, and
    that python has surpassed perl in popularity, but I am not seeing it.

    From what I have seen:

    - in unix/linux sysadmin, perl is far more popular than python,
    windows sysadmins typically don't use either.
    - in web-development, php is far more popular than python - it's not
    even close.
    - when I did a search on dice, I found over 20X more jobs advertised
    for ruby on rails developers, than for python dango developers.
    - application development is dominated by java, c/c++, and maybe a
    little visual basic.
    - as I understand it, fortran is still the most popular language for
    numberical programming.

    Of course, these are just observations on my part, nothing scientific
    about it. But, I can't help but wonder how python's popularity was
    determined. I suspect that a lot of people use python as a secondary
    skill. For example, I use ms-word, but I'm not an ms-word
    professional.

    Please note: I am not confusing popularity with quality. I am not
    saying that php is better for web-dev, or anything like that. I am
    just wondering how python is rated as being so popular, when python
    does not seem to dominate anything.
     
    walterbyrd, Dec 22, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. walterbyrd wrote:

    > I have read that python is the world's 3rd most popular language, and
    > that python has surpassed perl in popularity, but I am not seeing it.



    In 20 days, you've gone from trying to import a module by using:

    > load "test.py"



    to questioning the popularity of python.

    You have many other subject you want to enlighten us about, I suppose?
    Cause I wonder what you'll come up with, next.
     
    Marco Mariani, Dec 22, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. walterbyrd

    Guest

    Walter> From what I have seen:

    Walter> - in unix/linux sysadmin, perl is far more popular than python,
    Walter> windows sysadmins typically don't use either.
    Walter> - in web-development, php is far more popular than python - it's not
    Walter> even close.
    Walter> - when I did a search on dice, I found over 20X more jobs advertised
    Walter> for ruby on rails developers, than for python dango developers.
    Walter> - application development is dominated by java, c/c++, and maybe a
    Walter> little visual basic.
    Walter> - as I understand it, fortran is still the most popular language for
    Walter> numberical programming.

    Looking at specific application domains doesn't tell the entire story. If
    you look back at the Tour de France results from the 80's I believe Greg
    Lemond won it one year without ever winning a stage. What you are reporting
    is akin to that. Fortran is almost certainly the king of numerical
    programming, but Python might be #2 or #3 there (behind Matlab). I'm pretty
    sure it dwarfs Perl, PHP and Ruby in that domain. In web development, while
    PHP is more popular than Python, Python is probably much more popular than
    Perl and Tcl. Maybe not ahead of Ruby due to RoR. etc etc.

    Skip
     
    , Dec 22, 2008
    #3
  4. Marco Mariani <> writes:

    > walterbyrd wrote:
    >
    >> I have read that python is the world's 3rd most popular language, and
    >> that python has surpassed perl in popularity, but I am not seeing it.

    >
    >
    > In 20 days, you've gone from trying to import a module by using:
    >
    >> load "test.py"

    >
    >
    > to questioning the popularity of python.
    >
    > You have many other subject you want to enlighten us about, I suppose?
    > Cause I wonder what you'll come up with, next.
    >


    One does not have to by a language maestro to try and assess its
    popularity. While his numbers or his reading of the numbers might be
    open to some questions, to suggest that one needs to be totally familiar
    with a language to determine its popularity is, frankly, ridiculous.

    --
    important and urgent problems of the technology of today are no longer the satisfactions of the primary needs or of archetypal wishes, but the reparation of the evils and damages by the technology of yesterday. ~Dennis Gabor, Innovations: Scientific, Technological and Social, 1970
     
    Richard Riley, Dec 22, 2008
    #4
  5. On Dec 22, 12:11 pm, walterbyrd <> wrote:
    > I have read that python is the world's 3rd most popular language, and
    > that python has surpassed perl in popularity, but I am not seeing it.
    >
    > From what I have seen:
    >
    > - in unix/linux sysadmin, perl is far more popular than python,
    > windows sysadmins typically don't use either.
    > - in web-development, php is far more popular than python - it's not
    > even close.
    > - when I did a search on dice, I found over 20X more jobs advertised
    > for ruby on rails developers, than for python dango developers.
    > - application development is dominated by java, c/c++, and maybe a
    > little visual basic.
    > - as I understand it, fortran is still the most popular language for
    > numberical programming.
    >
    > Of course, these are just observations on my part, nothing scientific
    > about it. But, I can't help but wonder how python's popularity was
    > determined. I suspect that a lot of people use python as a secondary
    > skill. For example, I use ms-word, but I'm not an ms-word
    > professional.
    >
    > Please note: I am not confusing popularity with quality. I am not
    > saying that php is better for web-dev, or anything like that. I am
    > just wondering how python is rated as being so popular, when python
    > does not seem to dominate anything.



    Sooner or later, we will remember those good old days where python was
    our "secret sauce"...
     
    Luis M. González, Dec 22, 2008
    #5
  6. Richard Riley wrote:

    > One does not have to by a language maestro to try and assess its
    > popularity. While his numbers or his reading of the numbers might be
    > open to some questions, to suggest that one needs to be totally familiar
    > with a language to determine its popularity is, frankly, ridiculous.


    I was not judging his competency. But when I am naive on a subject, I
    don't usually show off like that.
    The polemic intents in his previous messages are quite clear (python is
    slow, py3k is an utter failure because it doesn't solve the whitespace
    issue, etc), and this thread is not different. It seems like a rehash of
    issues that have been dragged around here by generations of trolls for
    the last 10 years.

    Sorry for adding noise to the signal :-/
     
    Marco Mariani, Dec 22, 2008
    #6
  7. walterbyrd

    Steve Holden Guest

    walterbyrd wrote:
    > I have read that python is the world's 3rd most popular language, and
    > that python has surpassed perl in popularity, but I am not seeing it.

    [rest of stuff adequately answered by other posters]

    The "Python has surpassed Perl" myth came from one month's results on
    the TIOBE index, which does not claim to use a scientifically
    justifiable methodology.

    Python *is* becoming very popular. Training demand is certainly going
    up. It's a great language for people whose primary career isn't
    programming but who need to do some programming - for example, there are
    about 40 scientists and engineers supporting the Mars Lander project
    using Python code, because it's a great way to put systems together that
    other engineers can understand.

    I try to discourage people from getting into language pissing contests,
    because they are rarely productive. The short answer is that nobody
    really knows how popular the various languages are, there are simply
    estimates with higher or lower credibility.

    regards
    Steve
    --
    Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
    Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
     
    Steve Holden, Dec 22, 2008
    #7
  8. walterbyrd

    r Guest

    I think when Python was first brought to this dark world by a genius
    named Guido van Rossum, it had complete dominance in it's niche,
    actually Python created a niche where none existed before. Since the
    advent of Ruby(Python closet competitor), Python's hold on this niche
    is slipping. A lot of Ruby noobies don't even realize that most of
    Ruby is an out-right plagiarism of Python. But I guess that's OK,
    because Python has borrowed from other languages itself.. just not in
    such a -sell your soul- kind of way as Ruby!.

    Now since Python *is not* the only language on it's block, we have to
    compete with our main nemesis(Ruby) for survival(I wonder if mats
    would have been so revolutionary to introduce indention if Guido had
    not done it first??, it seems to me he is a braces fanboy ;)

    Now more than ever we must stick to the Zen and clean up Python's
    warts to keep the dream alive and regain our right full crown. Python
    is better than Ruby, I have no doubt in my mind, but if we let ruby
    become -faster- than Python, people will gravitate away from Python.
    Speed IS important even in high level languages. We must never forget
    that! The war is not over just because we have Google, Nasa, and ILM.
    On the Contrary, it has just begun. I believe mats is not going to
    accept Ruby as 2nd best to Python, he will wage war on Pythonia. And
    if we fail to preempt this attack, we shall be like the burning ships
    of pearl harbor! Maybe Guido has a secret weapon up his sleeve(big
    boy), but 3.0 was defiantly not the bomb!

    Mats will now take advantage of the weaknesses in Py3000 and run with
    them. Whispering in everyones ear how much faster Ruby is to Python.
    And weather you like to hear it or not, this ROR thing is exploding,
    we must counter attack this vile disgrace to Pythonia. Do not sit back
    and say "well we are the best and we don't need to try any harder".
    For you will be left in the evolutionary dust of Ruby. And next year,
    left wanting...

    We need to sound the battle cries and gather the legions. Then we
    shall march across Rubonia and *raise* their cities to the ground. We
    shall encompass thy house O' Ruby -- and lay waste to it! After we
    slay thee, we shall breed with thy women and convert thy children. We
    shall rule with an iron fist!, crushing all resistance to Python's
    absolute power. Like the great kings of olde, monuments will be
    erected so all generations shall be witness of our power, and glory.
    """ O' Python, for the sound of thy chariots will be so fear full no
    army could stand against thee!""" We shall avenge the atrocities and
    hypocrocies you have brought upon this world Ruby! And then you shall
    know that we are the Lord of this world, when our vengeance is cast
    upon you!

    I will be monitoring comp.lang.python and over the next 6 months I
    will conduct a census of the users of this group. So far I have only
    seen maybe 20 regulars here. I had hoped they numbered several
    thousand, but i am starting to think more in the hundreds or even
    less :(. I will post my findings to this group. It shall be a wake up
    call for those of you who think the war is over. Get off your bums you
    lazy-coach-potatos, the fight is not over yet. Do not let your eye's
    become "wide shut"!!!

    Truth shall be the judge...
     
    r, Dec 22, 2008
    #8
  9. walterbyrd

    walterbyrd Guest

    On Dec 22, 10:13 am, r <> wrote:
    > Since the
    > advent of Ruby(Python closet competitor), Python's hold on this niche
    > is slipping.


    About the only place I ever hear of ruby being used is web development
    with RoR. When it comes to web development, it seems to me that ruby
    (because of rails) is far more popular than python. It seems to me
    that ruby is the niche player, and python (with fairly new frameworks)
    is trying to catch up to ruby in that niche. It seems to me that the
    python web framework that best competes with rails, is Django, and
    Django 1.0 just came out a few months back.

    > A lot of Ruby noobies don't even realize that most of
    > Ruby is an out-right plagiarism of Python.


    Maybe. But the rails framework seems to have a different philosophy
    than the django, turbogears, or pylons, frameworks. RoR values
    convention over configuration, and has a lot of "magic" whereas the
    python frameworks seem to have the opposite philosophy - in those
    regards. I see pros and cons to both approaches. I wonder what the
    market with think?

    > Now since Python *is not* the only language on it's block, we have to
    > compete with our main nemesis(Ruby) for survival


    I think both python and ruby will "survive." I think python is also
    competing with perl in the sysadmin space - although I see perl as
    being much more popular there.
     
    walterbyrd, Dec 22, 2008
    #9
  10. walterbyrd

    Steve Holden Guest

    r wrote:
    > I think when Python was first brought to this dark world by a genius
    > named Guido van Rossum, it had complete dominance in it's niche,
    > actually Python created a niche where none existed before. Since the
    > advent of Ruby(Python closet competitor), Python's hold on this niche
    > is slipping. A lot of Ruby noobies don't even realize that most of
    > Ruby is an out-right plagiarism of Python. But I guess that's OK,
    > because Python has borrowed from other languages itself.. just not in
    > such a -sell your soul- kind of way as Ruby!.
    >
    > Now since Python *is not* the only language on it's block, we have to
    > compete with our main nemesis(Ruby) for survival(I wonder if mats
    > would have been so revolutionary to introduce indention if Guido had
    > not done it first??, it seems to me he is a braces fanboy ;)
    >

    What makes you assume this is a zero-sum game, and that Python won't
    survive if any other language becomes popular. Every language borrows
    from those that came before it. Terms like "outright plagiarism" don't
    encourage rational debate, and make you seem like a troll who is more
    interested in stirring up controversy than actually doing things to help
    promote the language.

    > Now more than ever we must stick to the Zen and clean up Python's
    > warts to keep the dream alive and regain our right full crown. Python
    > is better than Ruby, I have no doubt in my mind, but if we let ruby
    > become -faster- than Python, people will gravitate away from Python.
    > Speed IS important even in high level languages. We must never forget
    > that! The war is not over just because we have Google, Nasa, and ILM.
    > On the Contrary, it has just begun. I believe mats is not going to
    > accept Ruby as 2nd best to Python, he will wage war on Pythonia. And
    > if we fail to preempt this attack, we shall be like the burning ships
    > of pearl harbor! Maybe Guido has a secret weapon up his sleeve(big
    > boy), but 3.0 was defiantly not the bomb!
    >

    I have an article about the Zen coming up in "Python Magazine" so I
    won't steal its thunder. Suffice it to say that people take the Zen far
    too seriously. Anyone who does so undermines their own credibility as a
    Python commentator. This isn't a war. Stop being childish.

    > Mats will now take advantage of the weaknesses in Py3000 and run with
    > them. Whispering in everyones ear how much faster Ruby is to Python.
    > And weather you like to hear it or not, this ROR thing is exploding,
    > we must counter attack this vile disgrace to Pythonia. Do not sit back
    > and say "well we are the best and we don't need to try any harder".
    > For you will be left in the evolutionary dust of Ruby. And next year,
    > left wanting...
    >

    If all you want from a language is speed, go use C. I would avoid
    assembly language though, since a modern optimizing C compiler will
    often beat an assembly language programmer for execution speed, and the
    programming time will definitely be shorter. But to make speed the
    be-all and end-all is a witless approach. Speed is definitely not why
    dynamic languages' popularity is increasing. Speed *is* still relevant
    in certain areas, and completely irrelevant in others.

    > We need to sound the battle cries and gather the legions. Then we
    > shall march across Rubonia and *raise* their cities to the ground. We
    > shall encompass thy house O' Ruby -- and lay waste to it! After we
    > slay thee, we shall breed with thy women and convert thy children. We
    > shall rule with an iron fist!, crushing all resistance to Python's
    > absolute power. Like the great kings of olde, monuments will be
    > erected so all generations shall be witness of our power, and glory.
    > """ O' Python, for the sound of thy chariots will be so fear full no
    > army could stand against thee!""" We shall avenge the atrocities and
    > hypocrocies you have brought upon this world Ruby! And then you shall
    > know that we are the Lord of this world, when our vengeance is cast
    > upon you!
    >
    > I will be monitoring comp.lang.python and over the next 6 months I
    > will conduct a census of the users of this group. So far I have only
    > seen maybe 20 regulars here. I had hoped they numbered several
    > thousand, but i am starting to think more in the hundreds or even
    > less :(. I will post my findings to this group. It shall be a wake up
    > call for those of you who think the war is over. Get off your bums you
    > lazy-coach-potatos, the fight is not over yet. Do not let your eye's
    > become "wide shut"!!!
    >
    > Truth shall be the judge...


    Much more of this kind of tripe and nobody will read what you write
    anyway. You will hear the plonking of a hundred thousand newsreaders
    every time you post.

    regards
    Steve
    --
    Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
    Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
     
    Steve Holden, Dec 22, 2008
    #10
  11. walterbyrd

    Tommy Grav Guest

    On Dec 22, 2008, at 12:48 PM, walterbyrd wrote:
    >> Now since Python *is not* the only language on it's block, we have to
    >> compete with our main nemesis(Ruby) for survival

    >
    > I think both python and ruby will "survive." I think python is also
    > competing with perl in the sysadmin space - although I see perl as
    > being much more popular there.


    Python is making great headway in the physical sciences. Especially
    in astronomy Python has become a real player as not only a tool for
    quick and dirty calculations, but more serious number crunching using
    the great numpy and scipy libraries. With Cython, I, think it will
    even start
    taking over some of the speed critical niche from C and Fortran.

    Cheers
    Tommy
     
    Tommy Grav, Dec 22, 2008
    #11
  12. walterbyrd

    r Guest

    Walter,
    I just look at the stats for comp.lang.python, and i am 9th place for
    most post this month. That makes me completely sad. With just 50 post
    so far, i am showing up on the high count. Sad, very sad. Now i have
    much reason to believe that only 100 or so people follow this list :(.
    Python is slipping. We must try harder, or all of Guido's work will be
    for nothing!
     
    r, Dec 22, 2008
    #12
  13. walterbyrd

    Krishnakant Guest

    hello hackers.
    Python is best at high level calculations and as an indication, Please
    note that I am leading a team on developing an accounting software which
    will be modular and would suit the economic conditions of developed and
    almost developed countries like India.
    I find that number crunching and heavy calculations is shear programming
    bliss in python.
    At the front end we are using pygtk and find it very light and zippy.
    And we are going to use twisted for middle layer and reportlab for
    reporting.
    And the development so far is pritty smooth and our programmres who
    learned python for the first time are just amaised about the fact that
    how easily python can do a certain thing.
    So i don't know what others think but python is not just a good
    scripting language (not that being a good scripting language is some
    thing bad ) but also a complete enterprise ready language with given
    frameworks like twisted.
    happy hacking.
    Krishnakant.
    On Mon, 2008-12-22 at 12:59 -0500, Tommy Grav wrote:
    > On Dec 22, 2008, at 12:48 PM, walterbyrd wrote:
    > >> Now since Python *is not* the only language on it's block, we have to
    > >> compete with our main nemesis(Ruby) for survival

    > >
    > > I think both python and ruby will "survive." I think python is also
    > > competing with perl in the sysadmin space - although I see perl as
    > > being much more popular there.

    >
    > Python is making great headway in the physical sciences. Especially
    > in astronomy Python has become a real player as not only a tool for
    > quick and dirty calculations, but more serious number crunching using
    > the great numpy and scipy libraries. With Cython, I, think it will
    > even start
    > taking over some of the speed critical niche from C and Fortran.
    >
    > Cheers
    > Tommy
    > --
    > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
     
    Krishnakant, Dec 22, 2008
    #13
  14. > I just look at the stats for comp.lang.python, and i am 9th place for
    > most post this month. That makes me completely sad. With just 50 post
    > so far, i am showing up on the high count. Sad, very sad. Now i have
    > much reason to believe that only 100 or so people follow this list :(.
    > Python is slipping. We must try harder, or all of Guido's work will be
    > for nothing!


    Maybe most of us are doing real things with Python and not spending our
    time on the list posting. (I normally do not post on here, but I felt I
    had to now).

    I have used Python since 0.9.x and have brought it into every
    project/contract that I have worked on. The current project I am on
    tried to get rid of it and move to Perl for all of my code.. All of
    those people are gone and I am still here and so is Python. As a matter
    of fact, Python use has grown greatly and we rely on it for so many of
    our day to day operations, monitoring, data collection, etc.

    Python is not going away just because people are not posting here. Wake
    up!

    BEA and IBM have converted all of their custom script language support
    for WebLogic and WebSphere over to Jython because they felt Python
    (interfacing with Java) was the best solution to their script language
    issues. Everyone on the project I am on that works with WebLogic and
    WebSphere are learning Python so they can work with it. So far, no real
    complaints.

    People are moving away from Perl to Python for much of their scripting,
    but it will take a long time to complete. There is a lot of training,
    re-coding, and trying to figure out what the original Perl code did
    (ever try to go back and look at Perl code that is 2-3 years old!!!).

    Yes, Ruby has taken some of the popularity out of Python, but they are
    also hitting different markets. I have also read in a couple of magazine
    articles that RoR is losing momentum. From what I have read, RoR is
    great to create your first version, but if you need to maintain a large
    codebase, it is not as easy as they thought it would be and the reuse
    numbers are much lower than Python. But hey, what do I know.... Google,
    Yahoo!, YouTube... I know.. tiny little tinker-toy web applications..
    right?

    Lance Ellinghaus
     
    Ellinghaus, Lance, Dec 22, 2008
    #14
  15. Marco Mariani <> writes:

    > Richard Riley wrote:
    >
    >> One does not have to by a language maestro to try and assess its
    >> popularity. While his numbers or his reading of the numbers might be
    >> open to some questions, to suggest that one needs to be totally familiar
    >> with a language to determine its popularity is, frankly, ridiculous.

    >
    > I was not judging his competency. But when I am naive on a subject, I
    > don't usually show off like that.


    I do not see what is showing off about judging a languages
    popularity. In many cases a languages popularity can be a useful metric
    in picking a language to do a job.

    > The polemic intents in his previous messages are quite clear (python
    > is slow, py3k is an utter failure because it doesn't solve the
    > whitespace issue, etc), and this thread is not different. It seems
    > like a rehash of issues that have been dragged around here by
    > generations of trolls for the last 10 years.


    I find it difficult myself to accept certain criticisms of certain
    things when I am close to them. This does not, however, make the
    criticisms unfair or untrue or even unimportant.

    >
    > Sorry for adding noise to the signal :-/


    --
    important and urgent problems of the technology of today are no longer the satisfactions of the primary needs or of archetypal wishes, but the reparation of the evils and damages by the technology of yesterday. ~Dennis Gabor, Innovations: Scientific, Technological and Social, 1970
     
    Richard Riley, Dec 22, 2008
    #15
  16. walterbyrd

    r Guest

    Steve Holden
    > What makes you assume this is a zero-sum game, and that Python won't
    > survive if any other language becomes popular. Every language borrows
    > from those that came before it. Terms like "outright plagiarism" don't
    > encourage rational debate, and make you seem like a troll who is more
    > interested in stirring up controversy than actually doing things to help
    > promote the language.


    This is a war Steve, and i will explain why. Python does not need to
    compete with perl, lisp, C, basic, etc, etc. WHY, well because python
    is SO radically different than those languages. Ruby on the other
    hand, took most from python, the only difference is Ruby's full OO
    integration.(12.method()). Since Ruby is so similar to python we must
    consider that some people who would have found only python in this
    niche now could go to Ruby. I am for choices, but this is out and out
    robbery!
    Of course we must stand on the shoulders of greater minds than our own
    to get ahead, but using someone's knowledge against them is wrong. If
    Ruby want's to incorporate so many Pythonian ideas into their
    language, at least put a note in the tutorial giving credit to Guido
    for his wisdom. Don't use our ideas and then bash python in the next
    breath!

    > I have an article about the Zen coming up in "Python Magazine" so I
    > won't steal its thunder. Suffice it to say that people take the Zen far
    > too seriously. Anyone who does so undermines their own credibility as a
    > Python commentator. This isn't a war. Stop being childish.


    I was speaking to the loyalty of Pythonista's. Of course we are not
    really going to slay mats, come on Steve, get real!

    > If all you want from a language is speed, go use C. I would avoid
    > assembly language though, since a modern optimizing C compiler will
    > often beat an assembly language programmer for execution speed, and the
    > programming time will definitely be shorter. But to make speed the
    > be-all and end-all is a witless approach. Speed is definitely not why
    > dynamic languages' popularity is increasing. Speed *is* still relevant
    > in certain areas, and completely irrelevant in others.


    Come on Steve, i am NOT saying speed is the only thing that matters
    here! But it is very important. I never compared Python to C, that is
    madness. But it must be better, faster, smarter than it's direct
    competition(ruby)... you agree??

    > Much more of this kind of tripe and nobody will read what you write
    > anyway. You will hear the plonking of a hundred thousand newsreaders
    > every time you post.


    Oh Steve... Listen, my words are ment as a wake-up-call to all who
    still love Python, and i believe you are one of them. Maybe old age
    has slowed your hand, that's OK, Us "youngsters" will take the helm.
    And be serious, do you really think this group is read by "hundreds-of-
    thousands of news readers? I wish it were, but I highly doubt it.
     
    r, Dec 22, 2008
    #16
  17. walterbyrd a écrit :
    > On Dec 22, 10:13 am, r <> wrote:
    >> Since the
    >> advent of Ruby(Python closet competitor), Python's hold on this niche
    >> is slipping.

    >
    > About the only place I ever hear of ruby being used is web development
    > with RoR. When it comes to web development, it seems to me that ruby
    > (because of rails) is far more popular


    s/popular/hyped/

    But being (perhaps over ?) hyped too soon is not necessarily the best
    move...

    > than python. It seems to me
    > that ruby is the niche player, and python (with fairly new frameworks)
    > is trying to catch up to ruby in that niche. It seems to me that the
    > python web framework that best competes with rails, is Django, and
    > Django 1.0 just came out a few months back.


    Fooled by version numbers ? Heck, Python 3.0 just came out a couple
    weeks ago, and PHP is already at 6.x !-)

    FWIW, I wrote my first django app years ago (and it's still in production).


    >> A lot of Ruby noobies don't even realize that most of
    >> Ruby is an out-right plagiarism of Python.


    I don't know who asserted such a stupid thing, but he manages to be
    equally clueless wrt/ both languages.

    > Maybe. But the rails framework seems to have a different philosophy
    > than the django, turbogears, or pylons, frameworks. RoR values
    > convention over configuration, and has a lot of "magic" whereas the
    > python frameworks seem to have the opposite philosophy - in those
    > regards. I see pros and cons to both approaches. I wonder what the
    > market with think?


    My actual CTO is a big Ruby/Rails fan, yet he settled on Python/Django
    for our current 'big' project. Wonder why ?
     
    Bruno Desthuilliers, Dec 22, 2008
    #17
  18. walterbyrd

    MRAB Guest

    r wrote:
    > Steve Holden
    >> What makes you assume this is a zero-sum game, and that Python won't
    >> survive if any other language becomes popular. Every language borrows
    >> from those that came before it. Terms like "outright plagiarism" don't
    >> encourage rational debate, and make you seem like a troll who is more
    >> interested in stirring up controversy than actually doing things to help
    >> promote the language.

    >
    > This is a war Steve, and i will explain why. Python does not need to
    > compete with perl, lisp, C, basic, etc, etc. WHY, well because python
    > is SO radically different than those languages. Ruby on the other
    > hand, took most from python, the only difference is Ruby's full OO
    > integration.(12.method()). Since Ruby is so similar to python we must
    > consider that some people who would have found only python in this
    > niche now could go to Ruby. I am for choices, but this is out and out
    > robbery!
    > Of course we must stand on the shoulders of greater minds than our own
    > to get ahead, but using someone's knowledge against them is wrong. If
    > Ruby want's to incorporate so many Pythonian ideas into their
    > language, at least put a note in the tutorial giving credit to Guido
    > for his wisdom. Don't use our ideas and then bash python in the next
    > breath!
    >

    [snip]
    "Pythonian"? A real Pythonista would know it's "Pythonic"! A real
    Pythonista would be called "p", not "r", which sounds very Rubish(?) to
    me...
     
    MRAB, Dec 22, 2008
    #18
  19. walterbyrd

    walterbyrd Guest

    On Dec 22, 11:42 am, "Ellinghaus, Lance" <>
    wrote:

    > Yes, Ruby has taken some of the popularity out of Python, but they are
    > also hitting different markets.


    Do you mean different markets within web development, or do you mean
    ruby is used mostly for web-dev, while python is used for other stuff?
     
    walterbyrd, Dec 22, 2008
    #19
  20. walterbyrd

    r Guest

    On Dec 22, 1:10 pm, MRAB <> wrote:
    > r wrote:
    > > Steve Holden
    > >> What makes you assume this is a zero-sum game, and that Python won't
    > >> survive if any other language becomes popular. Every language borrows
    > >> from those that came before it. Terms like "outright plagiarism" don't
    > >> encourage rational debate, and make you seem like a troll who is more
    > >> interested in stirring up controversy than actually doing things to help
    > >> promote the language.

    >
    > > This is a war Steve, and i will explain why. Python does not need to
    > > compete with perl, lisp, C, basic, etc, etc. WHY, well because python
    > > is SO radically different than those languages. Ruby on the other
    > > hand, took most from python, the only difference is Ruby's full OO
    > > integration.(12.method()). Since Ruby is so similar to python we must
    > > consider that some people who would have found only python in this
    > > niche now could go to Ruby. I am for choices, but this is out and out
    > > robbery!
    > > Of course we must stand on the shoulders of greater minds than our own
    > > to get ahead, but using someone's knowledge against them is wrong. If
    > > Ruby want's to incorporate so many Pythonian ideas into their
    > > language, at least put a note in the tutorial giving credit to Guido
    > > for his wisdom. Don't use our ideas and then bash python in the next
    > > breath!

    >
    > [snip]
    > "Pythonian"? A real Pythonista would know it's "Pythonic"! A real
    > Pythonista would be called "p", not "r", which sounds very Rubish(?) to
    > me...


    MRAB -> '%sMuchRubyAndBasic' %'Too'
    MRAB -> Method.Ruby(AttractsBraindead)
    MRAB -> MyRubyAintBad
    MRAB -> MuchoRubyAndBasic

    Pythonian is more acceptable in the context of my sentence...

    """ If Ruby want's to incorporate so many Pythonian ideas into their
    language, at least put a note in the tutorial giving credit to Guido
    for his wisdom."""

    Pythonian.translate() -> in the domain if Python... ownership
    Pythonic.translate() -> in a python style... (way of)

    two radically different meaning, of course if you vocabulary reaches
    that far??
     
    r, Dec 22, 2008
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Norm Matloff

    STL popularity?

    Norm Matloff, Apr 22, 2005, in forum: C++
    Replies:
    25
    Views:
    830
    Gerry Quinn
    Apr 24, 2005
  2. Stewart Midwinter
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    454
  3. Replies:
    14
    Views:
    571
    Harry George
    Dec 4, 2006
  4. Xah Lee
    Replies:
    35
    Views:
    973
    Jorgen Grahn
    Dec 5, 2008
  5. Xah Lee
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    197
    Xah Lee
    Nov 26, 2008
Loading...

Share This Page