Recommend a GUI app for newbie webdesigner

[JustAnotherGuy]

Yes. There's nothing "elitist" about asking people to do things
correctly and well.

Please. Do you accept that doing so raises the entry barrier?

You might be a web design guru, but are you a professional chef? How
dare you try to cook otherwise?

 

[Bob Adkins]

I have absolutely nothing against people using such programs, aslong
as they are willing to take the time required,

And just who are you to set standards for all?

There are purists, in-betweeners, and those who couldn't care less about
HTML hygiene. Fortunately, the .01% of us who are purists can not tell the
rest of us what to do.

Pete Roselle was the best commissioner the NFL has ever had, and he never
played the game.

I'm a damn good driver, but I can't overhaul my automatic transmission.
(Let me guess: You drive only cars with manual transmissions, right?)

Happy new years Steve. No offense meant. Just my silly attempt to make you
think.

Bob

 

[Steven Burn]

And just who are you to set standards for all?

</snip>

I think you've mis-understood me, I certainly did not mean to imply that I
have the right (nor would I ever presume such) to set the standards for
everyone else, nor to tell them how things should and should not be done
(it's basically, just what I was taught when I first started, and am able to
see the logic behind the "principles" as it were, that I was taught).

There are purists, in-betweeners, and those who couldn't care less about
HTML hygiene. Fortunately, the .01% of us who are purists can not tell the
rest of us what to do.

Pete Roselle was the best commissioner the NFL has ever had, and he never
played the game.

</snip>

I'm glad you mentioned the NFL then actually (I'd no idea who he was until
you mentioned that, and to be honest.... still don't, lol)

I'm a damn good driver, but I can't overhaul my automatic transmission.
(Let me guess: You drive only cars with manual transmissions, right?)

</snip>

hehe, actually.... I don't drive ;o)

Happy new years Steve. No offense meant. Just my silly attempt to make you
think.

</snip>

None taken Bob, and certainly wasn't a "silly attempt" in any sense ;o)

Happy new year )

--
Regards

Steven Burn
Ur I.T. Mate Group
www.it-mate.co.uk

Keeping it FREE!

Disclaimer:
I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)

 

[Hugh Scott-Elliot]

I'm afraid I agree...... for beginners, Notepad is the best option.

Okay so it doesn't do eveything for you but, if your a web dev, and don't
know how to code in HTML, and are not willing to learn how to do so then
IMHO, you shouldn't have bothered in the first place.

I personally started with Notepad and now use my own custom built editor,
and it was the best choice I ever made. I detest, and will always detest,
the programs that do everything for you as you aren't (IMHO) learing
anything other than how to do it the "lazy" way.

What absolute garbage. My advice to you is to keep your grubby little
opinions to yourself.

No gentleman understands nonsense like HTML and there's certainly no
reason why a lady should, either.

He should buy her Dreamweaver and have done with it.

Hugh Scott-Elliot

 

[Steven Burn]

What absolute garbage. My advice to you is to keep your grubby little
opinions to yourself.

</snip>

I'm sorry sir, I thought this was a discussion.......?

No gentleman understands nonsense like HTML and there's certainly no
reason why a lady should, either.

</snip>

I understand it quite well, and happen to know several people that
understand it a heck of alot more. It's not exactly rocket science.

He should buy her Dreamweaver and have done with it.

Hugh Scott-Elliot

</snip>

If he or she wishes to (dare I use profanity) "purchase" such programs then
by all means, they may freely do so, they don't exactly need permission.

--
Regards

Steven Burn
Ur I.T. Mate Group
www.it-mate.co.uk

Keeping it FREE!

Disclaimer:
I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)

 

[Ceg]

Some people have another life and don't have time to learn HTML. They just
want to throw up a family-orineted web page. What do you recommend for

them?

EasyHTML from ToniArts.

 

[JustAnotherGuy]

</snip>

I'm sorry sir, I thought this was a discussion.......?

Aww, you just fell for a classic troll!

 

[Tiger]

Please. Do you accept that doing so raises the entry barrier?

You might be a web design guru, but are you a professional chef?
How dare you try to cook otherwise?

I never said they shouldn't design web pages. If I were to attempt
to cook something, I'd damn well find a good recipe book and follow
it to the letter...hence my previous suggestion about downloading
one of the hundreds of html tutorials and following it.

 

[javalab]

"Hugh Scott-Elliot"

No gentleman understands nonsense like HTML and there's certainly no
reason why a lady should, either.

so all those who code in html arent gentlemen, are they ?

j.

 

[REMbranded]

No, not at all. I just personally feel Notepad is the best option.

I like Crypt Edit or PsPad. These have syntax highlighting, which is
pretty helpful, especially when learning.

CryptEdit requires a few plugins:

Crypt Edit: ~2000k
http://ps.yaroslavl.ru/


PSPad 4.2.5 (1806) - 24.07.2003 - 2000k
http://www.pspad.com/index_en.html

 

[javalab]

I like Crypt Edit or PsPad. These have syntax highlighting, which is
pretty helpful, especially when learning.
CryptEdit requires a few plugins:
Crypt Edit: ~2000k
http://ps.yaroslavl.ru/
PSPad 4.2.5 (1806) - 24.07.2003 - 2000k
http://www.pspad.com/index_en.html

i registered editplus years ago and stick to it, but found crimson
editor, suggested it to friends, and one of them reports fine and adopted
it.
http://www.crimsoneditor.com/
installed it right now, looks cool.
in editplus i like the built-in ie-browser, tho.
j.

 

[Toby A Inkster]

But WYSIWYG techniques can work at a much higher level than that. The fact
that they have tended up to now to generate dodgy output doesn't mean that
they always will.

The fact that WYSIWYG editors generate dodgy output is not down to bad
implementations, it's because they are based on a fundamentally flawed
principle: that HTML is a visual description.

No doubt it would be possible to create a good graphical HTML editor, but
it could not be described as WYSIWYG. Think along the lines of Mozilla's
DOM inspector, which shows the document tree and a preview of the file.
Now consider making that into an editing interface.

 

[jake]

"Hugh Scott-Elliot"

so all those who code in html arent gentlemen, are they ?

j.

You can make up your own mind when you realise that these people are
always required to enter the house via the Tradesman's Entrance rather
than the front door ;-)

Besides, most Gentlemen avoid these lower classes by having a simple
notice on their front gates:

"No hawkers, circulars, or itinerant HTML coders"

regards,

 

[Barry Pearson]

The fact that WYSIWYG editors generate dodgy output is not down to bad
implementations, it's because they are based on a fundamentally flawed
principle: that HTML is a visual description.

To a large extent, the combination of (X)HTML & CSS *is* a visual description.
It is not *only* that, but that is a large part of it.

Note that any true WYSIWYG editor has to read the CSS for the document being
worked on, and decent ones not only allow styles to be attached to the visible
features, but also the CSS can be edited too. Even Dreamweaver 4 did that, and
that came out years ago! So I take it for granted that a WYSIWYG editor will
help develop both (X)HTML & CSS in parallel.

I accept that additional "views" would be valuable. An "outline view". A
"linearisation view". A "site navigation view". But, given the fact that most
people who access my pages will be viewing them on a screen, it makes sense to
make that a major view.

No doubt it would be possible to create a good graphical HTML editor,
but it could not be described as WYSIWYG. Think along the lines of
Mozilla's DOM inspector, which shows the document tree and a preview
of the file. Now consider making that into an editing interface.

I still want, indeed demand, indeed *get*, an editor that shows me a
resemblence to what the page I'm working on will appear as to most of my
target audience. I want, and get, the ability to type into cells, type
directly into a heading, drag & drop, examine the relationship between
headings & text & images, etc. I find it a very convenient working style, and
one that gets better each year for a whole set of web pages. I see no reason
to compromise - I'm not asking for a fundamentally new type of tool, but
rather significant improvements to an existing type of tool.

 

[CoMa]

Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354

PSPad 4.2.5 (1806) - 24.07.2003 - 2000k
http://www.pspad.com/index_en.html

That is a old version


Latest verson of PSPad is v4.2.8 (1909)
Released 30 Dec 2003

PSPad Install version
http://www.pspad.com/files/pspad/pspad428inst_en.exe
2.0Mb

CAB archive version
http://www.pspad.com/files/pspad/pspad428en.cab
1.4Mb


/CoMa


--
Conny (CoMa) Magnusson
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.algonet.se/~hubbabub/
ICQ : 1351964
=============================
num lerk gwahng how young ga yung terng
hua jai cone baw young tawng terng dai

 

[Hugh Scott-Elliot]

I understand it quite well...

Precisely. I said that no *gentleman* understands HTML.

I'm sure that you understand it very well.

Hugh Scott-Elliot

 

[javalab]

Precisely. I said that no *gentleman* understands HTML.

I'm sure that you understand it very well.

Hugh Scott-Elliot

lets put it another way.
lets the gentlmen rest.
men do understand html.
j.

 

[OllimaX]

I have designed a webpage for my friend and she would like to be able to
update it herself but normally she does all ger newsletters in Publisher
or Word.
I know these programs can export to html but some of the html coding
isn't much to be desired.
Can anyone please recommend a (freeware) GUI app that she can use to do
her own website/updates?
Thanks
PS - Some of the simpler apps are too basic so something with nice
features but also simple to use.

How about finding out what she really wants to update, and what not?
Then find someone who can design a php-mysql thingign to provide her forms
where she could write new content, and this content would be published on a
template you have designed.

Don't look at me, I can't do it, but I know it is not a difficult thing to
be done if it's only text on a layout that doesn't change.
Google for content management. There are lots of alternatives, from OS
solutions to million euro's sofwres.

Not an easy choice, but if she really want's....


Oll¡maX!

 

[John Hood]

Encouraging their children to learn html. Beyond that, there are
literally hundreds of downloadable tutorials to which one can refer
while building a page. It's not C++...it doesn't take a rocket
scientist or hours and hours of study or practice. If one can find
the time to post regularly to usenet and surf the web, one can easily
learn html without neglecting that "other" life. Personally, I would
discourage anyone from building mediocre web pages.

I have a web site. I do not know HTML and have no interest in learning.
The guy who built the site was kind enough to comment the HTML source
with "Start menu options here" "Start single menu option" "End Single
Menu option" "End menu options here" "Start main page" "Don't put
anything below this point"

I have copied and pasted to my heart's content, I'm very happy with the
pages. I use HTML kit which let's me flip from edit to view quickly.

There are other ways besides "Learn HTML"

John H. E-mail: (e-mail address removed) Website: John's Best of Freeware:
http://home.wi.rr.com/johnhood/freeware/

 

[Tiger]

I have a web site. I do not know HTML and have no interest in
learning.

Good. Then don't.