Roedy please respect the netiquette

[Bryce]

On 08 Jun 2004 17:14:18 GMT, (e-mail address removed) wrote:
..

Aaah yes.. As a web-designer, you do all
you can, but there is simply no accounting
for some browser quirks / bugs.. :-(

Ain't that the truth. Recently started running through some CSS
examples. Horrifying to see all the browser "work arounds" in there.
Makes me almost want to go back to using Table layouts...

 

[Bryce]

U¿ytkownik Roedy Green napisa³:

That's because you use font sizes in pixels. Pixel is always pixel, maybe
you should consider typographical points (don't know what's the term in
english; the unit in css is 'pt') that take screen resolution into account.

em?

There's also the HTML small, medium, large, smaller, etc...

 

[EnKan]

Roedy,

My sincere thanks for your selfless efforts and passion in conceiving
and maintaining your Java Glossary. Needless to say, there are
hundreds and possibly thousands of programmers all over the world who
silently appreciate the help and tips they obtain from your site.

I'd think that Sun might be interested in sponsoring your site ! Has
such a proposition ever surfaced ?

Keep up the good work forever.

 

[Steven J Sobol]

It is the width of the letter "m", similar to en, the width of an "n".
These have to be relative to some particular font family/style/size.
Correct

A point is in PostScript 1/72 inch. A printer's point is 1/72.27
inch.

Also correct

A Java point is one pixel.
Yup

Windows has dialog units which takes some measure of psychological
size into account.

Twips, they're called. I forget what fraction of an inch they are

At some point we are going to have to pick some sort of psychological
measure that takes into account the fineness of the screen resolution,
the size of the display and the visual acuity of the viewer.

Or we can just go the simpler route of having a few different stylesheets,
each displaying text in a larger size, and allow the visitor to choose which
they want. And specify everything in points.

You might define 100 mt = number of pixels leading that type can be
and still be read.

Yeah, sure, but that's overkill.

 

[Roedy Green]

Twips, they're called. I forget what fraction of an inch they are

Twips are something else again, used in writing printer drivers, 1/120
of an inch IIRC.

 

[Roedy Green]

Yeah, sure, but that's overkill.

The idea is you would write your app and your html in mt units and the
user defines the mt unit once and all apps automatically fit.

 

[Roedy Green]

The first one you listed ( http://mindprod.com/jgloss/o.html ) displays
with problems at 100% in Mozilla (1.5).

They seem to have fixed them with Mozilla 1.8A1.

 

[Roedy Green]

I'd think that Sun might be interested in sponsoring your site ! Has
such a proposition ever surfaced ?

Sun would not want too. I not nearly vanilla enough for corporate
tastes. The gay thing, the anti-Bush thing, and even my strong
opinions on many Java issues would scare them off.

 

[Steven J Sobol]

Twips are something else again, used in writing printer drivers, 1/120
of an inch IIRC.

They're used as a unit of measure in dialogs too.

 

[Gary Labowitz]

They're used as a unit of measure in dialogs too.

No. Twip stands for "twenty in a pica." Since a pica is 1/72 of an inch, a
twip is 1/1440 of an inch. It's a MS thing, AFAIK, heavily used in Access
and VB.

 

[Bryce]

Sun would not want too. I not nearly vanilla enough for corporate
tastes. The gay thing, the anti-Bush thing, and even my strong
opinions on many Java issues would scare them off.

Not to steal thunder from Roedy's site, you can also get a lot of good
information from javaalmanac.com

 

[Roedy Green]

Not to steal thunder from Roedy's site, you can also get a lot of good
information from javaalmanac.com

See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/collections.html

for sites that offer collections of Java source code, including
http://javaalmanac.com

 

[javac]

http://www.cornishwebservices.co.uk/pages/colour_blind.shtml

heh, i'm color blind an never knew it. "this text might dissapear"
does just that for me. intriguing...

javac at mail dot com

 

[Roedy Green]

heh, i'm color blind an never knew it. "this text might dissapear"
does just that for me. intriguing...

The test is flawed in that it does not show what you are SUPPOSED to
see. It would be fairly easy for someone to think there was just
whitespace where there was something you were supposed to see.

I discovered in grade 7 that I have something the opposite of colour
blindness. Our science teacher was showing us pictures made with
coloured dots. You could see two different numerals made of the
coloured dots. If you had a certain type of blindness you could see
only one.

He held up one card. Students cried out, "What's that one? I can see
only one." I could clearly see two. The image was made in shades of
pink and orange. He said, "don't worry. You are not supposed to see
that one."

I thought this might have something to do with the irritating habit
people had of using the term "pink" for things that were clearly not
pink, to my eyes.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

heh, i'm color blind an never knew it. "this text might dissapear"
does just that for me. intriguing...

You might need to define your own
high contrast user stylesheet.

[ It is getting to the point where browser
makers are enabling users to override just
about anything the web-designer does, which
is about (bloody) time. ]

 

[blmblm]

[ snip ]

[ It is getting to the point where browser
makers are enabling users to override just
about anything the web-designer does, which
is about (bloody) time. ]

"About time"? I agree, but wasn't that sort of the original idea
of HTML / the Web? that HTML would be a "logical markup" language,
and it would be up to the browser to specify presentation details,
presumably subject to the user's preferences? not that that's how
it's been used in the last few years, but wouldn't it be nice to
go back to the original idea, for which (IMO) there was a lot to
be said ....

Sorry. Pet peeve of mine.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

[ snip ]

[ It is getting to the point where browser
makers are enabling users to override just
about anything the web-designer does, which
is about (bloody) time. ]

"About time"? I agree, but wasn't that sort of the original idea
of HTML / the Web? that HTML would be a "logical markup" language,

I do not know what the story with separation
of content and style was in the early days,
I doubt 'presentation' was much of an issue
at all.

But I think, yes, HTML ideally adds structure
(paragraphs, headings..) while leaving styling
to either a) the browser, b) the web-designer
or c) the user stylesheet.

I like the concept of *suggesting* style
but allowing the user to override it when
they feel like it, or need to do so.
[ Though if I get it right, it will be
the former, rather than the latter. ]

and it would be up to the browser to specify presentation details,
presumably subject to the user's preferences?

I can see where you are coming from, but
I refuse to leave *everything* to the browser.
I consider Times New Roman (often) on a
white BG to be horrendous..

(Though I will generally specify font by
family, and always at '100%' for body text,
so I am going with the browser/system defaults
to some extent)

..not that that's how
it's been used in the last few years, but wouldn't it be nice to
go back to the original idea, for which (IMO) there was a lot to
be said ....

Ehhh (shrugs).. I feel we can have almost
the best of all worlds if user stylesheets
become more prevalent..

 

[arne thormodsen]

No. Twip stands for "twenty in a pica." Since a pica is 1/72 of an inch, a
twip is 1/1440 of an inch. It's a MS thing, AFAIK, heavily used in Access
and VB.

Pica = 1/6"
Point = 1/72"

--arne

 

[Roedy Green]

No. Twip stands for "twenty in a pica." Since a pica is 1/72 of an inch, a
twip is 1/1440 of an inch. It's a MS thing, AFAIK, heavily used in Access
and VB.

you mean "twenty in a point"

 

[Roedy Green]

Twips are something else again, used in writing printer drivers, 1/120
of an inch IIRC.

nope. 1/1440". See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/twip.html