rt.cpan.org, search.cpan.org: why so unuseable?

Discussion in 'Perl Misc' started by Ben Bullock, Jun 15, 2008.

  1. Ben Bullock

    Ben Bullock Guest

    Whenever I try to submit a bug via rt.cpan.org, I have to go through
    about five screens in order to log in. First, I get the login screen,
    which tells me I'm an anonymous guest. Then I press login, and wait about
    five seconds or more to get a screen which tells me "You have been logged
    out of rt.cpan.org. You're welcome to log back in again." If I leave this
    screen open, I'll be sent back automatically to the previous screen. If I
    keep going, and try to log in with my "bitcard account", I have to click
    through an invalid certificate notice, click, wait, click, wait, click,
    wait, until finally I arrive at a page where it tells me I'm logged in.
    Then, having finally logged in to the system, I have no way to get back
    to the page where I was going to report a bug, except by going back in
    the browser and then reloading the page.

    This contorted login process alone probably puts off about half or more
    of the people who try to report a bug.

    My question is, why is rt.cpan.org so unuseable? Perl should be able to
    do much better. CPAN should tell the people behind rt.cpan.org to make it
    useable, or ditch the whole RT system in favour of something which
    actually works, like Bugzilla (also written in Perl). The fact that this
    cranky, slow software is used as a vital component of CPAN doesn't
    inspire confidence.

    Secondly, while I'm about it, what's wrong with search.cpan.org? I have
    no idea what software is behind the search engine, but sometimes the
    search pages come up totally blank or they miss things which I know are
    there.

    Instead of wasting money on Perl 6, which surely will never be finished:

    http://news.perlfoundation.org/2008/05/tpf_receives_large_donation_in.html

    it would be better if the Perl foundation spent its money employing a
    full-time administrator of CPAN to sort out these bugs.
     
    Ben Bullock, Jun 15, 2008
    #1
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  2. * Ben Bullock wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
    >Whenever I try to submit a bug via rt.cpan.org, I have to go through
    >about five screens in order to log in. First, I get the login screen,
    >which tells me I'm an anonymous guest.


    Actually you can just send a mail to bug-<dist>@rt.cpan.org, the only
    difference is that your report might not be associated with the account
    you use on rt.cpan.org.
    --
    Björn Höhrmann · mailto: · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de
    Weinh. Str. 22 · Telefon: +49(0)621/4309674 · http://www.bjoernsworld.de
    68309 Mannheim · PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 · http://www.websitedev.de/
     
    Bjoern Hoehrmann, Jun 15, 2008
    #2
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  3. Ben Bullock

    Dr.Ruud Guest

    rt.cpan.org works ok (was: Re: rt.cpan.org, search.cpan.org: why so unuseable?)

    Ben Bullock schreef:

    > Whenever I try to submit a bug via rt.cpan.org, I have to go through
    > about five screens in order to log in.


    I go to https://rt.cpan.org and am automatically loggged in, without any
    hassle at all.

    On the top of the initial page it says:
    Please report any issues with rt.cpan.org to
    .


    > what's wrong with search.cpan.org? I
    > have no idea what software is behind the search engine, but sometimes
    > the search pages come up totally blank or they miss things which I
    > know are there.


    I use it every day and have never had that experience, so the problem
    must be at your end.


    > Instead of wasting money on Perl 6, which surely will never be
    > finished:


    Perl 6 is great and is getting greater every day.

    --
    Affijn, Ruud

    "Gewoon is een tijger."
     
    Dr.Ruud, Jun 15, 2008
    #3
  4. Ben Bullock

    brian d foy Guest

    Re: rt.cpan.org works ok (was: Re: rt.cpan.org, search.cpan.org: why so unuseable?)

    In article <>, Dr.Ruud
    <> wrote:

    > Ben Bullock schreef:
    >
    > > Whenever I try to submit a bug via rt.cpan.org, I have to go through
    > > about five screens in order to log in.

    >
    > I go to https://rt.cpan.org and am automatically loggged in, without any
    > hassle at all.


    How do you get automatically logged in? I've never been able to figure
    out that part.
     
    brian d foy, Jun 15, 2008
    #4
  5. Ben Bullock

    brian d foy Guest

    In article <g31o2s$i67$>, Ben Bullock
    <> wrote:

    > Whenever I try to submit a bug via rt.cpan.org, I have to go through
    > about five screens in order to log in.


    Yeah, that's a pain in the ass.

    > Perl should be able to
    > do much better. CPAN should tell the people behind rt.cpan.org to make it
    > useable, or ditch the whole RT system in favour of something which
    > actually works,


    Well, it has been brought up several times before. "CPAN" isn't really
    anything. There isn't a person who can "tell" anyone to fix RT, or
    anything else, and there is no one who can tell any particular module
    author that they have to use RT. Authors are free to use any system
    they like. They might use Sourceforge, or Google Code, or their own
    thing.

    RT is there because Best Practical set it up and automatically creates
    user accounts for all module authors. It's only official in the sense
    that most people use it, not because it was selected or any other
    service was not selected.

    > it would be better if the Perl foundation spent its money employing a
    > full-time administrator of CPAN to sort out these bugs.


    RT is a product of Best Practical, which doesn't need any money to fix
    the problems. Their's is a problem of priority and motivation.

    Money is almost never the problem in things like this. You need to find
    someone who cares to fix it.
     
    brian d foy, Jun 15, 2008
    #5
  6. Ben Bullock

    brian d foy Guest

    Re: rt.cpan.org works ok (was: Re: rt.cpan.org, search.cpan.org: why so unuseable?)

    In article <>, Dr.Ruud
    <> wrote:

    > Ben Bullock schreef:


    > > what's wrong with search.cpan.org? I
    > > have no idea what software is behind the search engine, but sometimes
    > > the search pages come up totally blank or they miss things which I
    > > know are there.

    >
    > I use it every day and have never had that experience, so the problem
    > must be at your end.


    A lot of people (including me), have the same complaints: Don't
    discount what Ben said just because you don't have a problem.

    http://brad.livejournal.com/2342234.html

    http://use.perl.org/~Alias/journal/34801

    https://twitter.com/gisle/statuses/782101160
     
    brian d foy, Jun 15, 2008
    #6
  7. Ben Bullock

    Dr.Ruud Guest

    Re: rt.cpan.org works ok

    brian d foy schreef:
    > Dr.Ruud:
    >> Ben Bullock:


    >>> Whenever I try to submit a bug via rt.cpan.org, I have to go through
    >>> about five screens in order to log in.

    >>
    >> I go to https://rt.cpan.org and am automatically loggged in, without
    >> any hassle at all.

    >
    > How do you get automatically logged in? I've never been able to figure
    > out that part.


    When I am logged in at bitcard, I only need to click the Login button
    (the one with thee double lines border).

    Logging in at bitcard is facilitated by the default password vault of
    Firefox.

    --
    Affijn, Ruud

    "Gewoon is een tijger."
     
    Dr.Ruud, Jun 16, 2008
    #7
  8. Ben Bullock

    Ben Bullock Guest

    On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:44:28 -0500, brian d foy wrote:

    > Well, it has been brought up several times before. "CPAN" isn't really
    > anything. There isn't a person who can "tell" anyone to fix RT, or
    > anything else, and there is no one who can tell any particular module
    > author that they have to use RT. Authors are free to use any system
    > they like. They might use Sourceforge, or Google Code, or their own
    > thing.


    But the "Report a bug" link on the web page of every CPAN module goes to
    rt.cpan.org, which makes it the default way to report a bug, in the same
    way that the "Rate this distribution" link goes to cpanratings.perl.org.
    Perhaps there is a better way to rate distributions or report bugs but
    most people are going to end up at these sites. Similarly with the
    "Annotate this POD" link.
     
    Ben Bullock, Jun 16, 2008
    #8
  9. Re: rt.cpan.org works ok (was: Re: rt.cpan.org, search.cpan.org: whyso unuseable?)

    On Jun 15, 10:45 am, brian d foy <> wrote:
    > In article <>, Dr.Ruud
    >
    > <> wrote:
    > > Ben Bullock schreef:
    > > > what's wrong with search.cpan.org? I
    > > > have no idea what software is behind the search engine, but sometimes
    > > > the search pages come up totally blank or they miss things which I
    > > > know are there.

    >
    > > I use it every day and have never had that experience, so the problem
    > > must be at your end.

    >
    > A lot of people (including me), have the same complaints: Don't
    > discount what Ben said just because you don't have a problem.
    >
    > http://brad.livejournal.com/2342234.html
    >
    > http://use.perl.org/~Alias/journal/34801
    >
    > https://twitter.com/gisle/statuses/782101160



    Brian, Ben,

    As far as I know, Adam is fairly happy with the work we've done over
    the past year to improve functionality and performance. I'm not going
    to speak for brad and gisle as I haven't heard anything from them in
    rather a long time.

    For what it's worth, I've personally had trouble with Bitcard
    authentication. That's why we added support for OpenID logins. And
    CPAN authors can also log in with their PAUSE credentials, which is a
    simple username/password combo.


    Of course, having walked through the archives of the queue we use for
    tracking bug reports and issues in rt.cpan.org, I don't see a single
    email from Brian describing his problems or asking for help. And the
    only thing I see from Ben is a message asking us to respond to people
    complaining on usenet this afternoon.

    So, guys, if you have problems, why don't you write to us asking for
    help rather than starting by publicly complaining? [And yes, that's a
    rhetorical question. We'd be happy to help out if you write to the
    address on the front-page of rt.cpan.org. But usenet is not a valid
    support channel for us]


    -Jesse
     
    Jesse Vincent, Jun 16, 2008
    #9
  10. Ben Bullock

    Ben Bullock Guest

    Re: rt.cpan.org works ok (was: Re: rt.cpan.org, search.cpan.org:why so unuseable?)

    On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 11:46:40 +0200, Dr.Ruud wrote:

    > Ben Bullock schreef:
    >
    >> Whenever I try to submit a bug via rt.cpan.org, I have to go through
    >> about five screens in order to log in.

    >
    > I go to https://rt.cpan.org and am automatically loggged in, without any
    > hassle at all.


    That's very lucky for you.

    > On the top of the initial page it says:
    > Please report any issues with rt.cpan.org to
    > .


    I'll send them an email link to this Usenet conversation on Google Groups.

    > I use it every day and have never had that experience, so the problem
    > must be at your end.


    Well, if it is a problem at my end, it's a problem which spans several
    computers, many operating systems, and many other people.
     
    Ben Bullock, Jun 16, 2008
    #10
  11. Ben Bullock

    Ben Bullock Guest

    Re: rt.cpan.org works ok (was: Re: rt.cpan.org, search.cpan.org:whyso unuseable?)

    On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:30:37 -0700, Jesse Vincent wrote:

    > As far as I know, Adam is fairly happy with the work we've done over
    > the past year to improve functionality and performance. I'm not going
    > to speak for brad and gisle as I haven't heard anything from them in
    > rather a long time.


    Gisle Aas's complaint dates from 3rd April 2008, two and a half months
    ago.

    > So, guys, if you have problems, why don't you write to us asking for
    > help rather than starting by publicly complaining?


    The reason I posted the original "public complaint" rather than sending
    an email was to get some feedback on whether it was "just me" or whether
    other people were experiencing the same problems.
     
    Ben Bullock, Jun 16, 2008
    #11
  12. Ben Bullock

    brian d foy Guest

    Re: rt.cpan.org works ok (was: Re: rt.cpan.org, search.cpan.org: why so unuseable?)

    In article
    <>,
    Jesse Vincent <> wrote:

    > As far as I know, Adam is fairly happy with the work we've done over
    > the past year to improve functionality and performance.


    That wasn't my impression when we were talking about it over lunch this
    weekend when we were figuring out how to avoid using RT but not knowing
    of anything better to use.

    > Of course, having walked through the archives of the queue we use for
    > tracking bug reports and issues in rt.cpan.org, I don't see a single
    > email from Brian describing his problems or asking for help.


    I'm not much of a complainer, and people had already complained about
    what I would have complained about and it's still what it is. It's
    slow. I don't know why, or how, and what you need to do to fix that. I
    don't think it's high on your list of things to do. I'm not looking for
    support because I just deal with it.

    I don't start the discussions about RT sucking. I just acknowledge the
    situation and defend against the "works for me so must be okay for
    everyone" retort.
     
    brian d foy, Jun 17, 2008
    #12
  13. Ben Bullock

    Ben Bullock Guest

    Re: rt.cpan.org works ok (was: Re: rt.cpan.org, search.cpan.org:whyso unuseable?)

    Today, when I tried to press "resolve" on rt.cpan.org, I experienced an
    eight minute delay (from 9.34 to 9.42 pm) from rt.cpan.org before finally
    stopping the web browser. As Jesse Vincent requested, I've reported it to
    the address on the CPAN page.
     
    Ben Bullock, Jul 8, 2008
    #13
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