training?

[Mike]

Can someone recommend a company to use for training of perl?
The person I've recommended has been a COBOL programmer, but
doesn't really know anything about the flexibility of perl.

TIA

Mike

 

[Paul Lalli]

Can someone recommend a company to use for training of perl?
The person I've recommended has been a COBOL programmer, but
doesn't really know anything about the flexibility of perl.

I don't know anyone personally who's ever taken a corporate Perl
course. (A college Perl course is an exception). I know they exist,
however. An example would be the Stonehenge organization which employs
the author of _Learning Perl_, Randal Schwartz, as well as a couple of
the regulars of this newsgroup: http://www.stonehenge.com

I personally think that any programmer should be able to pick up Perl
by reading the documentation and tutorials. Have him buy _Learning
Perl_ (affectionately known as "The Llama", and start reading:
http://perldoc.perl.org/perlintro.html

See also: http://learn.perl.org

Paul Lalli

 

[axel]

I don't know anyone personally who's ever taken a corporate Perl
course. (A college Perl course is an exception). I know they exist,
however. An example would be the Stonehenge organization which employs
the author of _Learning Perl_, Randal Schwartz, as well as a couple of
the regulars of this newsgroup: http://www.stonehenge.com

I personally think that any programmer should be able to pick up Perl
by reading the documentation and tutorials. Have him buy _Learning
Perl_ (affectionately known as "The Llama", and start reading:
http://perldoc.perl.org/perlintro.html

Ah... you misunderstand the nature of corporate training courses.
I used to teach some (not Perl).

For someone in an office, as opposed to people like us, it is a
time to have time to relax and solely concentrate on learning the
topic in hand by being out of the office, not interrupted by
everyone, and probably enjoying a semi-holiday in whichever place
and hotel they are staying. At the employers expense of course.

Axel

 

[Mike]

I don't know anyone personally who's ever taken a corporate Perl
course. (A college Perl course is an exception). I know they exist,
however. An example would be the Stonehenge organization which employs
the author of _Learning Perl_, Randal Schwartz, as well as a couple of
the regulars of this newsgroup: http://www.stonehenge.com

I personally think that any programmer should be able to pick up Perl
by reading the documentation and tutorials. Have him buy _Learning
Perl_ (affectionately known as "The Llama", and start reading:
http://perldoc.perl.org/perlintro.html

See also: http://learn.perl.org

Paul Lalli

All great suggestions, thanks.

Mike

 

[Paul Lalli]

Ah... you misunderstand the nature of corporate training courses.
I used to teach some (not Perl).

For someone in an office, as opposed to people like us,

I take (light-hearted) exception to your false assumption that I do not
work in a corporate office structure.

it is a
time to have time to relax and solely concentrate on learning the
topic in hand by being out of the office, not interrupted by
everyone, and probably enjoying a semi-holiday in whichever place
and hotel they are staying. At the employers expense of course.

True true. I guess my point was that I don't see how a course could be
*necessary* for a programmer to learn Perl. Helpful, beneficial, even
enjoyable, sure. Just not required.

Paul Lalli

 

[axel]

I take (light-hearted) exception to your false assumption that I do not
work in a corporate office structure.

Sorry... I just think that you are not of the corporate mind. But
I apologise in any case.

True true. I guess my point was that I don't see how a course could be
*necessary* for a programmer to learn Perl. Helpful, beneficial, even
enjoyable, sure. Just not required.

It's not. You are quite correct. I have never taken a Perl course...
but then I work as a contractor, otherwise if I were a permi, then
I think I would make noises about wanting to go on a Perl course.

I would hope it would be somewhere interesting where the drink is
cheap and the girls pretty. Hey John... are you running any courses
in Mexico?

Axel

 

[John Bokma]

True true. I guess my point was that I don't see how a course could be
*necessary* for a programmer to learn Perl. Helpful, beneficial, even
enjoyable, sure. Just not required.

For one thing it makes time available to learn it I am trying to learn
Python, but I am sure I would learn it faster if everyday I had to go to
class for one hour

 

[John Bokma]

I would hope it would be somewhere interesting where the drink is
cheap and the girls pretty. Hey John... are you running any courses
in Mexico?

Actually I have been asked to run a Perl course quite some time ago, but it
was very hard to find people :-(

 

[axel]

For one thing it makes time available to learn it I am trying to learn
Python, but I am sure I would learn it faster if everyday I had to go to
class for one hour

Bizarre... I just opened my O'Reilly copy of _Learning Python_
yesterday although I have owned it for a few years closed.

Axel

 

[John Bokma]

Bizarre... I just opened my O'Reilly copy of _Learning Python_
yesterday although I have owned it for a few years closed.

Python comes with a kind of "quick" introduction to the language. Also,
check out Dive into Python: http://diveintopython.org/ (downloadable pdf).

I bought the Dutch (!) edition of Programming Python (IIRC, it was cheap),
but it's still in the Netherlands, gathering dust.

Also I recall that Learning Python is not a very good book, I have seen it
called the worst book O'Reilly ever published (which probably still makes
it better compared to many other publishers ).

 

[axel]

Python comes with a kind of "quick" introduction to the language. Also,
check out Dive into Python: http://diveintopython.org/ (downloadable pdf).

Thanks for the link.

I bought the Dutch (!) edition of Programming Python (IIRC, it was cheap),
but it's still in the Netherlands, gathering dust.

I think I bought my (English language copy) in Amsterdam. I didn't know
O'Reilly also published in Dutch.

Also I recall that Learning Python is not a very good book, I have seen it
called the worst book O'Reilly ever published (which probably still makes
it better compared to many other publishers ).

It is not very good, that is for certain, even after perusing a
few pages it is obvious.

Actually I think the worst O'Reilly programming book was the C++ one which
was just C with a few extra bits for C++.

Axel

 

[Matt Garrish]

It is not very good, that is for certain, even after perusing a
few pages it is obvious.

Actually I think the worst O'Reilly programming book was the C++ one which
was just C with a few extra bits for C++.

My vote would go to Learning Perl/Tk. Terribly written and so far below the
standard you come to expect from an O'Reilly Perl book. I have no interest
in finding out if Mastering Perl/Tk improved any on it.

Matt

 

[Paul Lalli]

My vote would go to Learning Perl/Tk. Terribly written and so far below the
standard you come to expect from an O'Reilly Perl book. I have no interest
in finding out if Mastering Perl/Tk improved any on it.

I never saw Learning Perl/Tk, but Mastering Perl/Tk is by my side the
instant I type 'use Tk;'. It's the only reference that gives any kind
of definitions or examples. The Tk POD docs are incomplete at best,
and the various online repositories are close to worthless.

.... all in my opinion, of course.

Paul Lalli

 

[Matt Garrish]

I never saw Learning Perl/Tk, but Mastering Perl/Tk is by my side the
instant I type 'use Tk;'. It's the only reference that gives any kind
of definitions or examples. The Tk POD docs are incomplete at best,
and the various online repositories are close to worthless.

... all in my opinion, of course.

Then they must have done a serious rewrite. Learning Perl/Tk was overly
redundant and left you with the feeling that the author hadn't progressed
very far beyond the docs - here is a widget and these are the attributes;
here is another widget and here are its attributes (and who cares that you
just read about half of them, here they are again).

The book also never got around to providing meaningful examples or
information, or even examples that would work more often than not.

Matt

 

[Bob]

True true. I guess my point was that I don't see how a course could be
*necessary* for a programmer to learn Perl. Helpful, beneficial, even
enjoyable, sure. Just not required.

Well, I could learn nuclear physics and build my own reactor from a
book too but I think a course or two would get me going faster

Perl is a *serious* change for a COBOL programmer as mentioned by the
OP. It's a whole different world. I've programmed in several
languages, but I still have problems learning Perl due to the
flexibility and cryptic nature of Perl syntax. The upfront load is
large.

Also, the docs are deep, but they are intimidating to a newbie - you
don't even know what to look for. I think a course in this case would
be appropriate (not that I'd personally ever take one, even though I
spent many years teaching people to program and develop software, I go
nuts sitting in a classroom).

 

[A. Sinan Unur]

Well, I could learn nuclear physics and build my own reactor from a
book too but I think a course or two would get me going faster
....

Also, the docs are deep, but they are intimidating to a newbie - you
don't even know what to look for.

http://www.ebb.org/PickingUpPerl/

By the way, setting X-No-Archive is a good way to find your way into
killfiles.

Sinan

 

[Tad McClellan]

By the way, setting X-No-Archive is a good way to find your way into
killfiles.

If X-No-Archive is set, you have _already_ found your way into some killfiles.

 

[ced]

..
I personally think that any programmer should be able to pick up Perl
by reading the documentation and tutorials. Have him buy _Learning
Perl_ (affectionately known as "The Llama", and start reading:
http://perldoc.perl.org/perlintro.html

For a high skill level or certain programming backgrounds, I'd
agree but I think an excellent instructor can sometimes explain
the more esoteric topics in ways books can't. Or impart advice
or personal examples that'll be tailored to the actual experience
level of the class.

As great as the "Llama" is, I'd recommend live Stonehenge classes
if you can swing it. Tom Christiansen's group (TPC)is equally good
IMO.

 

[Dr.Ruud]

Tad McClellan:

A. Sinan Unur:

If X-No-Archive is set, you have _already_ found your way into some
killfiles.

It can also be set to 'No'.
Or to 'Gamble'.

 

[Nomen Nescio]

Well, I could learn nuclear physics and build my own reactor from a

book too but I think a course or two would get me going faster

It worked for me. I'm now living off the grid, but I happen to live
near a pitchblende area.