Yacht Brokerage website - Comments please.

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Angie Gibson, Apr 11, 2004.

  1. Angie Gibson

    Angie Gibson Guest

    A colleague of mine is having this website built, (URL below), but I'm not
    happy about the way it looks or navigates, but would appreciate some
    opinions from the people here as to what could be improved, or changed
    before it progresses further, so I can advise them more accurately.

    Thanks, Angie,
    The URL is http://www.bristolyachtbrokerage.com
     
    Angie Gibson, Apr 11, 2004
    #1
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  2. Angie Gibson

    brucie Guest

    in post: <news:OBbec.1090$>
    "Angie Gibson" <> said:

    > A colleague of mine is having this website built, (URL below), but I'm not
    > happy about the way it looks or navigates, but would appreciate some
    > opinions from the people here as to what could be improved, or changed
    > before it progresses further, so I can advise them more accurately.
    > The URL is http://www.bristolyachtbrokerage.com


    i have difficulty reading grey text on a grey background and the page
    hasn't got any navigation. frames? you have got to be shpxvat joking.

    http://moreshit.bruciesusenetshit.info/screencap0231.png [46k]


    --
    b r u c i e
     
    brucie, Apr 11, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Angie Gibson

    Eric Bohlman Guest

    "Angie Gibson" <> wrote in
    news:OBbec.1090$:

    > A colleague of mine is having this website built, (URL below), but I'm
    > not happy about the way it looks or navigates, but would appreciate
    > some opinions from the people here as to what could be improved, or
    > changed before it progresses further, so I can advise them more
    > accurately.
    >
    > Thanks, Angie,
    > The URL is http://www.bristolyachtbrokerage.com


    Navigation is completely Javascript-dependent; it disappears completely if
    JS is disabled.

    Design is fixed-width.

    Several sentences appear to be missing words.

    Home page contains an active direct link to itself; on any page, the
    dropdown has an active link to the same page.
     
    Eric Bohlman, Apr 11, 2004
    #3
  4. Angie Gibson wrote:
    > A colleague of mine is having this website built,
    > (http://www.bristolyachtbrokerage.com), but
    > I'm not happy about the way it looks or navigates, but would
    > appreciate some opinions from the people here as to what could be
    > improved, or changed before it progresses further, so I can advise
    > them more accurately.


    1. Set a background colour (my browser sees grey text on a grey
    background)
    2. Remove the frameset. It provides no function and gets in the way of
    bookmarking pages. Incoming links from search engines will go deep into
    the site without the frameset anyway and then your masthead is missing
    3. The site cannot be navigated without javascript, this is inaccessible
    and will prevent search engines from indexing your site. Consider a more
    accessible form of site navigation, e.g.
    http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dropdowns/. Make the "homepages",
    "information", "sales list" etc. links proper links to index pages for
    those sections.
    4. I didn't see a sitemap
    5. I didn't see a site search (may not be critical for your site)
    6. The masthead logo is not a link to the front page of your site
    7. Beware of cheesy clip-art
    8. Use semantic markup (a heading is a heading tag not plain text with a
    large font size)
    9. No doctype
    10. Pointless use of layout tables in many places that restrict site
    width and induce excessive scrolling of small viewports
    11. Partial use of CSS mixed with depreciated font tag markup (makes
    site more bulky and more difficult to maintain amongst other reasons)
    12. No alt attributes on images
    13. IE-only scripting with misguided browser sniffing
    14. Fixed font sizes when CSS is used
    15. Use <style type="text/css"> not <style>
    --
    Andrew Urquhart
    - Contact: www.andrewu.co.uk/contact/
    - Employ me: Front/middle tier ASP developer with WAI & web standards
     
    Andrew Urquhart, Apr 11, 2004
    #4
  5. Angie Gibson

    Neal Guest

    On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 13:19:42 GMT, Angie Gibson <>
    wrote:

    > A colleague of mine is having this website built, (URL below), but I'm
    > not
    > happy about the way it looks or navigates, but would appreciate some
    > opinions from the people here as to what could be improved, or changed
    > before it progresses further, so I can advise them more accurately.
    >
    > Thanks, Angie,
    > The URL is http://www.bristolyachtbrokerage.com
    >
    >


    Oh dear...

    By using Javascript as the sole meas of navigation, the author has
    effectively excluded Google from doing anything with the site, along with
    other users who choose not to run Javascript. See
    http://users.rcn.com/neal413/yacht.gif for a screenshot of Opera 7.23
    without JS.

    The frameset isn't valid HTML by a long shot, and the noframes element
    should be pointing users to an alternate means of access, not a "sorry
    charlie". Not that frames are at all useful to this site. They provide
    absolutely no benefit except to make it harder to access and bookmark.

    Funny, a core value of this company is approachability, ought to be a bit
    more easy to use the site!

    (Oh, while I'm there, what's with the picture of a dictionary open to the
    word "trust"? Does that work? A photo of a dictionary, and people start
    trusting you? That's cool. I'm getting some of those pics on my site.)

    The Javascript navigation feels too flimsy, anyway. Even if Js navigation
    weren't bad, this one would be.

    Recommend gutting the nav and replacing with standard links, eliminating
    frameset, and lastly getting a bit better contrast on the page colors.
     
    Neal, Apr 11, 2004
    #5
  6. Angie Gibson

    Karl Groves Guest

    "Angie Gibson" <> wrote in message
    news:OBbec.1090$...
    > A colleague of mine is having this website built, (URL below), but I'm not
    > happy about the way it looks or navigates, but would appreciate some
    > opinions from the people here as to what could be improved, or changed
    > before it progresses further, so I can advise them more accurately.
    >
    > Thanks, Angie,
    > The URL is http://www.bristolyachtbrokerage.com
    >
    >


    It isn't terrible looking. In fact, it is nice and clean. But there's not
    enough contrast on any of the site's text (including navigation) between
    text & background.

    The site uses frames. Frames are shit.
    The site uses tables. Tables are shit.
    There are some (very infrequent) instances where frames and/or tables are
    warranted - this is not one of them.

    The top-level link on the DHTML menu dealy is not clickable. This is a major
    no-no. First, DHTML menus are a big usability problem anyway. They're often
    described as "slippery" by test participants and can be completely unusable
    by older people or people with mobility problems.
    At the absolute least, the top links (i.e. "Information", "Sales List",
    "Associated Services") must be actual links. People *will* be confused by
    this menu structure. Moreover, the menu can be completely unusable for the
    8-14% of users without javascript-enabled browsers.

    The navigational structure/ information architecture of the site is in
    serious need of improvement. It is obvious that the IA of the site was
    dictated by someone at the company saying "This is how I want it". Since the
    #1 reason why people use the Web is "get information on a particular topic"
    and because this is basically a brochureware website, the IA of the site is
    of primary importance and IMO must be redone completely. I'd recommend a
    card-sort with people who fit the company's target demographics. With the
    cost of a good yacht, they can afford to have a professional information
    architect come in and work out the IA.

    -Karl
     
    Karl Groves, Apr 11, 2004
    #6
  7. Angie Gibson

    Dave Guest

    In article <OBbec.1090$>,
    says...
    > A colleague of mine is having this website built, (URL below), but I'm not
    > happy about the way it looks or navigates, but would appreciate some
    > opinions from the people here as to what could be improved, or changed
    > before it progresses further, so I can advise them more accurately.
    >
    > Thanks, Angie,
    > The URL is http://www.bristolyachtbrokerage.com
    >
    >
    >

    go to http://www.widexl.com/remote/search-engines/metatag-analyzer.html
    put http://www.bristolyachtbrokerage.com/ into the little grey box and
    see what results you get... sh1te eh?

    never mind, one lives and learns. Happy Easter!

    --
    Dave
     
    Dave, Apr 11, 2004
    #7
  8. Angie Gibson

    Augustus Guest

    "Angie Gibson" <> wrote in message
    news:OBbec.1090$...
    > A colleague of mine is having this website built, (URL below), but I'm not
    > happy about the way it looks or navigates, but would appreciate some
    > opinions from the people here as to what could be improved, or changed
    > before it progresses further, so I can advise them more accurately.
    >
    > Thanks, Angie,
    > The URL is http://www.bristolyachtbrokerage.com


    You got some good replies.. a couple of quick thoughts on my part:

    Navigation:
    - Agree what they all say about javascript navigation
    - To have the navigation bar go all the way across the screen is kind of
    pointless if you only have 4 tiny "buttons" to click on. What you might
    want to do here intead is:
    change "information" to "ABOUT US" and then move "contact" out of the
    "information" sub group and rename to "CONTACT US". Include on that page:
    email form, mailing address and the map from information

    Main Text body:
    - I'd just go with black text on the white background. The "faint" color on
    white isn't really doing anything for me and makes it harder to read.

    Stretchy:
    - If you go with the blue background for the logo and then the photo on the
    right hand side, you could put extra blue in the middle and make the
    logo/title stretch across the site. If you are worried about having content
    run from the far left all the way to the far right you could put in a right
    hand column on each page and either put in some trivia facts about boats and
    yachting or put in photos about the product with some basic stats.
    Example: on the home page you might have a 2 column layout (one column, the
    main body, might take up 80-90% of the page width) and then in the right
    hand column you randomly show a couple of pictures of one of the boats up
    for sale with some stats and a link under it to MORE INFO which takes the
    user to the sales page for that item if they click on it

    Associated Services:
    - Personally I don't like the term "associated services", but the big
    question on this page I see is the "mark rolt shipwrights". From the sounds
    of it, aren't they somewhat of a competitor to the client? Either way once
    you are done this clients site you might be well advised to contact them and
    use these guys as leverage to get in there and redo their website (its a tad
    ugly, lacking information and could use a redesign... a good way in there
    would be: "Hi, I am ______ and I was just wrapping up the webite for _______
    and on one of their pages I they had a link to your site... perhaps you
    would be interested in having your website redesigned? I have some ideas
    and suggestions for improvement..."
     
    Augustus, Apr 11, 2004
    #8
  9. Angie Gibson

    Bill Logan Guest

    "Angie Gibson" <> wrote in message
    news:OBbec.1090$...
    > A colleague of mine is having this website built, (URL

    below), but I'm not
    > happy about the way it looks or navigates, but would

    appreciate some
    > opinions from the people here as to what could be

    improved, or changed
    > before it progresses further, so I can advise them more

    accurately.
    >
    > Thanks, Angie,
    > The URL is http://www.bristolyachtbrokerage.com
    >

    While I am a fan of js in this case it is probably best to
    avoid.
    When the window is resized the text disappears (in the js)

    Boat brokerage site visitors tend to be (mainly) non
    computor savy people who generally use their browser out of
    the box.

    They are also likely to look for, be most familier with, and
    know how to use, links that are the simplest underline in
    standard colors.

    The main things they are looking for is
    Easy to find listings that meet their criteria - price, loa,
    type and use
    Lots of picturse - thumb-nails they can enlarge in a
    seperate pop up is good
    Table style layout with consistant pattern.

    To meet the above use tables for layout - get rid of the
    frames - have a single option in the top menu (no js) and
    put a side menu to the left.

    Do not have the main page an info (about us) type. Most of
    your visitors wont care about that until later (maybe) What
    your visitors are looking for are boats! On the front page
    have a Boat of the week / month / latest listing etc. Wet
    the whistle as it were.

    Most 'useful' boat sites have a strong multiple search
    facility that gives a selective result. They are also fairly
    basic from a designers point of view and generally quite
    wrong from a purist view of. Ignore any negative comments
    you may get about using tables etc. Tables work perfectly
    for this type of site. More important, they work for the
    sort of visitor this type of site attracts!

    Suggest you have a look at some of the top brokerage sites
    in that regard.
    http://www.apolloduck.com/ is a good one.

    If you want to check out some sites in the best yachting
    country in the world then
    http://www.yachtfindersglobal.co.nz/
    http://www.boatsforsalenz.com/

    All have in common a basic (ugly) tables layout but get
    right to the point for their visitors which is 'show me
    pictures and specs of the boat I am looking for.

    Looking at what you have done so far I am sure you can do a
    lot better than those I have linked as far as looks go. Add
    in the searchable db, get rid of the js and frames and your
    on to it!

    By the way - I am not a designer but I do frequent yacht
    sites as a boat owner and a looker for that special boat :)
     
    Bill Logan, Apr 11, 2004
    #9
  10. On Sun, 11 Apr 2004, brucie wrote:

    > frames? you have got to be shpxvat joking.


    Even worse:

    <p>This page uses frames, but your browser doesn't support them.</p>

    <panto>OH YES IT DOES</panto>

    Translation: "This page uses frames, but your author does not support
    them".
     
    Alan J. Flavell, Apr 11, 2004
    #10
  11. brucie wrote:
    > in post: <news:OBbec.1090$>
    > "Angie Gibson" <> said:
    >
    >> A colleague of mine is having this website built, (URL below), but
    >> I'm not happy about the way it looks or navigates, but would
    >> appreciate some opinions from the people here as to what could be
    >> improved, or changed before it progresses further, so I can advise
    >> them more accurately.
    >> The URL is http://www.bristolyachtbrokerage.com

    >
    > i have difficulty reading grey text on a grey background and the page
    > hasn't got any navigation. frames? you have got to be shpxvat joking.
    >
    > http://moreshit.bruciesusenetshit.info/screencap0231.png [46k]


    I can't reduce or enlarge the text size.


    --

    Bonnie Granat
    www.granatedit.com
     
    Bonnie Granat, Apr 11, 2004
    #11
  12. Angie Gibson

    Clive Moss Guest

    "Angie Gibson" <> wrote in message
    news:OBbec.1090$...
    > A colleague of mine is having this website built, (URL below), but I'm not
    > happy about the way it looks or navigates, but would appreciate some
    > opinions from the people here as to what could be improved, or changed
    > before it progresses further, so I can advise them more accurately.
    >
    > Thanks, Angie,
    > The URL is http://www.bristolyachtbrokerage.com
    >
    >

    The javascript menu disappears when I resize the widow in IE6 (OK in
    Mozilla, NS6.2 and Opera)

    CM
     
    Clive Moss, Apr 11, 2004
    #12
  13. "Angie Gibson" <> wrote in message
    news:OBbec.1090$...
    > A colleague of mine is having this website built, (URL below), but I'm not
    > happy about the way it looks or navigates, but would appreciate some
    > opinions from the people here as to what could be improved, or changed
    > before it progresses further, so I can advise them more accurately.
    >
    > Thanks, Angie,
    > The URL is http://www.bristolyachtbrokerage.com


    Navigates? I couldn't see any navigation, just a page with a phone number.
    Looks-wise etc it's fine.
    --
    Charles Sweeney
    www.CharlesSweeney.com
     
    Charles Sweeney, Apr 11, 2004
    #13
  14. Angie Gibson

    brucie Guest

    in post: <news:p>
    "Alan J. Flavell" <> said:

    >> frames? you have got to be shpxvat joking.


    > Even worse:
    > <p>This page uses frames, but your browser doesn't support them.</p>


    aaahhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaa <rushes off to wash eyes out with soap/>


    --
    b r u c i e
     
    brucie, Apr 11, 2004
    #14
  15. Angie Gibson

    Andy Mabbett Guest

    In message <OBbec.1090$>, Angie
    Gibson <> writes
    >A colleague of mine is having this website built, (URL below), but I'm
    >not happy


    I should think not:

    p { font-family: verdana; color: #808080; font-size: 10pt
    }
    h1 { font-family: verdana; font-size: 10pt; color: #808080;
    font-weight: bold }
    tr { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10pt; color: #808080
    }

    then later:

    <table border="0" width="778" cellspacing="10" cellpadding="0"
    id="table1">
    <tr>
    <td><font size="5">ABOUT BRISTOL YACHT BROKERAGE LTD.</font><p>
    [...]


    Despite the style of H1 being declared, no level one header is present n
    teh page...
    --
    Andy Mabbett
    "The Internet is a reflection of our society[ ...]. If we do not like what we
    see in that mirror the problem is not to fix the mirror, we have to fix
    society." Vint Cerf
     
    Andy Mabbett, Apr 11, 2004
    #15
  16. Angie Gibson

    Angie Gibson Guest

    Angie Gibson wrote in message ...
    > A colleague of mine is having this website built, but I'm not
    > happy about the way it looks or navigates, but would appreciate some
    > opinions from the people here.


    Thank you to everbody who replied.

    I have printed off the relevant parts of the replies to hand to my friends
    to confirm my worries, and hopefully they will not allow this web designer
    to further develop the website without some major changes and improvements.

    Thanks all, Angie,
     
    Angie Gibson, Apr 12, 2004
    #16
  17. Angie Gibson

    CW Guest

    <uk.net.web.authoring , Angie Gibson , >
    <Dzrec.1582$>
    <Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:29:39 GMT>

    > > A colleague of mine is having this website built, but I'm not
    > > happy about the way it looks or navigates, but would appreciate some
    > > opinions from the people here.

    >
    > Thank you to everbody who replied.
    >
    > I have printed off the relevant parts of the replies to hand to my friends
    > to confirm my worries, and hopefully they will not allow this web designer
    > to further develop the website without some major changes and improvements.
    >


    Wouldnt like to come home to you with a broken pay packet :)

    Its far from being the worst website i've seen and the so called experts
    on here often talk out their arse & are blinded by their own hatred .

    Dont you think more comments from the average joe would be more valuable
    as its them who would be using the actual website .


    --
    http://www.cannabiswindow.co.uk
    (buy cannabis online)
     
    CW, Apr 12, 2004
    #17
  18. Angie Gibson

    Andy Mabbett Guest

    In message <>, CW
    <> writes

    [snip drivel]

    >Dont you think more comments from the average joe would be more
    >valuable as its them who would be using the actual website .


    Or not, when it fails to work.
    --
    Andy Mabbett
    "The Internet is a reflection of our society[ ...]. If we do not like what we
    see in that mirror the problem is not to fix the mirror, we have to fix
    society." Vint Cerf
     
    Andy Mabbett, Apr 12, 2004
    #18
  19. CW wrote:

    > Dont you think more comments from the average joe would be more valuable
    > as its them who would be using the actual website .


    Imagine I ran a restaurant and I'd just had a plumber come in and do some
    work on the customers' toilets. I'm unsure about the quality of the
    plumbing work -- whether or not the pipes are likely to burst in the next
    few months, say.

    Who should I turn to for advice:

    - a panel of plumbing experts; or

    - my customers, as they're the ones who are going to *use* the
    actual toilets?

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132
     
    Toby A Inkster, Apr 12, 2004
    #19
  20. Angie Gibson

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > > Dont you think more comments from the average joe would be more valuable
    > > as its them who would be using the actual website .

    > Imagine I ran a restaurant and I'd just had a plumber come in and do some
    > work on the customers' toilets. I'm unsure about the quality of the
    > plumbing work -- whether or not the pipes are likely to burst in the next
    > few months, say.
    > Who should I turn to for advice:
    > - a panel of plumbing experts; or
    > - my customers, as they're the ones who are going to *use* the
    > actual toilets?


    I hear all the time that it is not what "I the developer" want, but
    what the VISITOR wants. What if the visitors wants that. Then is it
    ok?

    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
     
    Whitecrest, Apr 12, 2004
    #20
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