:(

[Weyoun the gowd damn Dominion Vorta who certainly]

www.dancingborg.co.uk/Site.gif


it disturbs me that when I sent this to one of my
(probably-not-any-more-from-the-tone-of-their-reply) clients, they just
replied with:


"ROTFLOL!!!"



Did I to something incredibly wrong with it???

 

[SpaceGirl]

"Weyoun the gowd damn Dominion Vorta who certainly didn't dance"

www.dancingborg.co.uk/Site.gif


it disturbs me that when I sent this to one of my
(probably-not-any-more-from-the-tone-of-their-reply) clients, they just
replied with:


"ROTFLOL!!!"



Did I to something incredibly wrong with it???

Payment is at the wrong end. You need at least some payment up front....

 

[brucie]

in post: <Weyoun the gowd damn Dominion Vorta who certainly didn't dance

www.dancingborg.co.uk/Site.gif

it disturbs me that when I sent this to one of my
(probably-not-any-more-from-the-tone-of-their-reply) clients, they just
replied with:

"ROTFLOL!!!"
Did I to something incredibly wrong with it???

sex it up, it looks disgusting and very amateurish.
use the proper symbols and layout.
add more info.
think about having one professionally created (about $1k)

 

[Weyoun the Dancing Borg]

sex it up, it looks disgusting and very amateurish.

oh big deal.

use the proper symbols and layout.

I dont need to. the client is asking for a website designed for £100 ($175).

add more info.

such as?

think about having one professionally created (about $1k)

"$1K" - exactly.



Brucie, if I did a google search on your posting history, would I find
one single post in which you were nice to someone? you know, without the
insults and stuff?

 

[Weyoun the Dancing Borg]

Payment is at the wrong end. You need at least some payment up front....

for doing what? a 1 hour photoshop JPEG of a site design?

not worth the bother tbh. I dont charge until the product is completed.

 

[brucie]

in post: <

oh big deal.

you're not going to impress clients showing them rubbish like that

I dont need to. the client is asking for a website designed for £100 ($175).

all your clients should be given a generic flowchart of the process so
they know whats going on and at what step in the process they're up to.
it comforts them.

such as?

you seem to be missing bits and the bits you have need a bit of info to
explain what you need from the client and what they can expect from you.

"$1K" - exactly.

which you can use over and over again.

Brucie, if I did a google search on your posting history, would I find
one single post in which you were nice to someone?

i really hope not

you know, without the insults and stuff?

then what would be the point of posting?

 

[Weyoun the Dancing Borg]

in post: <


you're not going to impress clients showing them rubbish like that

I'm not trying to impress them, I'm telling them how I work. Is that not
how a web designer works? (barring payment, some ask for some upfront im
aware)

all your clients should be given a generic flowchart of the process so
they know whats going on and at what step in the process they're up to.
it comforts them.

or puts them in fits of giggles. no one else has complained before.

you seem to be missing bits and the bits you have need a bit of info to
explain what you need from the client and what they can expect from you.

it's not a contract it's a rough guideline of how I work. the contract I
create specifies the details you mentioned.

which you can use over and over again.

lol give me $1000 and I'd be happy to buy one. but first I'll pay off
the debt I'm in, and rent and food and stuff...

i really hope not
heh




then what would be the point of posting?

ce sera sera... (sp?)

 

[brucie]

in post: <

I'm not trying to impress them, I'm telling them how I work.

perhaps thats why your potential client "ROTFLOL"ed

it's not a contract it's a rough guideline of how I work. the contract I
create specifies the details you mentioned.

a flowchart with a few summary bullets at each step is much easier than
wading through a contract to see what is needed and needs to be done.

its much easier for you and the client to keep track of everything. at
the consultation stage they're very handy for you and the client to +/-
bits at each stage if needed.

it also saves a lot of time when the client can see two steps ahead they
need to supply some goodies and have them ready to go.

your flowchart is absolutely crap, its at the early rough draft
not-to-be-shown-to-anyone stage of development. its embarrassing. i
completely understand the "ROTFLOL" you got, it made me cringe.

believe it or not i don't post to be nasty but if you want gentle pats
on the head you'll have to ask someone else. if i think something is
fucked i'm going to tell you its fucked. i gave you my opinion which you
are free to ignore if you like, i don't care but i believe my criticisms
are valid.

 

[Augustus]

for doing what? a 1 hour photoshop JPEG of a site design?

not worth the bother tbh. I dont charge until the product is completed.

If all you are doing is $100 websites (or £100, currency doesn't really
matter here, its that you are charging so little) then asking for money up
front probably might not make much sense

But once you are doing a few for more money (even $500 or more) and get
stung by some deadbeat who decides he doesn't want to pay, then you'll
change your tune

I found that web design can be a funny market... because building a website
doesn't "cost" you anything to build except your time, some people think
that if they change their mind or back out that since it didn't cost you
anything its OK to do and they don't owe you anything

Thats why people charge up front (either some or all of the cost) and
definitly don't turn the site over to the customer until after they've paid
in full or some kind of payment contract has been done up.

As for your flowchart... it really was beyond simplistic. I understand your
point of "I'm not trying to impress them" but there is a point where
something can have a negative impact, rather than neutral or good... in this
case it'd be pretty close to negative

Also, you have a spelling mistake: "procede" should be "proceed"

When I was doing that web design stuff, my general procedure was:
1. Initial Consultation
2. Do rough sketches of layout, have client look over color schemes or
suggest other sites they liked the colors/layout on
3. Agree to roughly what the client wants in the way of pages, content and
functionality
4. Do contract
5. Money
a) if cost <= $1000 then 100% up front
b) if cost <= $2000 then 50% up front, 25% at halfway mark, 25% upon
completion
c) if cost >$2000 then 35% up front, 35% at the halfway mark, 30% upon
completion
d) if cost >$10,000 then pay schedule drawn up that both agree upon
6. Design initial template(s)
7. Consult client, get approval for which template to use
8. Consult client, get content for site finalized
9. Build site
10. Halfway mark
a) Consult client on design of site and how it is proceeding. Cover any
pitfalls or new suggestions to improve
b) Get more money from client
11. Finish site
12. Get final payment
13. Give client site (including uploading, etc)

Thats about it in a nutshell... mighta been more than that, but I can't
think of anything more off the top of my head.

 

[Grahammer]

"Weyoun the gowd damn Dominion Vorta who certainly didn't dance"

www.dancingborg.co.uk/Site.gif


it disturbs me that when I sent this to one of my
(probably-not-any-more-from-the-tone-of-their-reply) clients, they just
replied with:


"ROTFLOL!!!"



Did I to something incredibly wrong with it???

What is it supposed to be? If it's a flowchart it's not very well done.
Looks like something an 8 year old would draw up. Same with your posting
here... No capitalization at the beginning of your sentence. Extra blank
lines where they aren't needed, etc.

First of all, under the "consulation" bubble, why does the next bubble jog
to the right (and keep jumping left and right all the way down)? "Yes" and
"No" are part of the decision bubbles, not on their own. Why do you need two
lines to the final bubble? Why did you combine two steps in the final
bubble?

If this is the quality of the stuff you will be presenting to clients I
wouldn't expect too many of them to continue. They WILL pass judgement on
your skills based on this document.

Personally, I think it's the wrong way to go. A simple step by step list
would work just as well.

Not trying to be nasty, just my opinion.

 

[Kris]

13. Give client site (including uploading, etc)

Thats about it in a nutshell... mighta been more than that, but I can't
think of anything more off the top of my head.

14. Occasional evaluation with the client

Our experience is that clients like it when we care and we have often
gotten to expand their sites because of that.

 

[Bernhard Sturm]

Did I to something incredibly wrong with it???

If I were your customer I would be quite confused for the least:

As far as I understood they want a website. Now you are presenting them
the planned workflow for the entire project in such a flow chart diagram
where the largest box containes the word 'payment', and the smallest
containes the word 'consultation'. That's the sort of message you are
sending.
As a client I would then ask: we want a website. In your workflow you
identify the process of designing in a somehow detailed way (although I
don't get the step 'Client to hand over design' and later on you have
preliminary designs (by whom? the client?), but then the main part:
produce the website is just summarised in a small box before the payment.

If you really want to be taken serious, and if you plan your project
then I suggest you identify work packages for each process. Assign
responsibilites to each step within a work package (e.g. who will
deliver content, who is responsible for editing the delivered content?
the client or you?)
As a famous designer once said: god is in the details....


bernhard

 

[Augustus]

14. Occasional evaluation with the client

Our experience is that clients like it when we care and we have often
gotten to expand their sites because of that.

I was just stopping at the end of the site design process... but yes, you
definitly want to follow up with the client, network with them for possible
other job leads, send them a card during the holidays, let them know when
you are offering any specials/deals, etc

 

[Weyoun the Dancing Borg]

Augustus wrote:

I was just stopping at the end of the site design process... but yes, you
definitly want to follow up with the client, network with them for possible
other job leads, send them a card during the holidays, let them know when
you are offering any specials/deals, etc

<interested>

Does that really work? My dad owns a business (medical one) and he does
this with people; follows them up 6 months after he doesn't need to,
sends them a card etc but I never really asked why - i thought he was
just being nice

So... by doing little thigns like this, it can actually make a big
impression on the client? When I get cards from my bank and whatnot, I
just chuck them away thinking "they only want my money" and for me it
creates a negative reaction - but perhaps i'm in a minority here then

</interested>

 

[Kris]

you

When I get cards from my bank and whatnot, I
just chuck them away thinking "they only want my money" and for me it
creates a negative reaction

One should send those things to clients who are appreciating it, who
already have a positive impression of you. Clients who hate you may hate
you more; clients who are neutral about you may wonder too much about
why.

Delivering a good product and sevice is key to appreciation; it cannot
be replaced by a postcard, but it can definately be recalled by one.

 

[Augustus]

Augustus wrote:



<interested>

Does that really work? My dad owns a business (medical one) and he does
this with people; follows them up 6 months after he doesn't need to,
sends them a card etc but I never really asked why - i thought he was
just being nice

So... by doing little thigns like this, it can actually make a big
impression on the client? When I get cards from my bank and whatnot, I
just chuck them away thinking "they only want my money" and for me it
creates a negative reaction - but perhaps i'm in a minority here then

</interested>

Everybody will interpret it their own way, but I think in general it does
help.
- It lets the customer know that you are still thinking of them and that you
are taking the time to follow up or send them a card
- If the customer has lost your business card or forgotten your
name/email/url then things like cards or followups can be a good way to help
them remember you

Its all about building a relationship with your customers... and it is about
generating more business for yourself. For your father he is callling to
not only follow up on the items/services he sold in the past, but also to
check if their are other services they need now.

In your case as a web designer you might call them to follow up with a "Hi,
how are you doing? How is the website going for you? How is traffic? Are
you getting any customer comments?" and then following up with "Sounds
great! And you know that if you do want to move up from just a static
website we can build you one where you can actually sell your product
online... if you are ever interested in that, just give me a call and I can
go over all your options in that regard"

Doing a followup is an important thing... I think calls are best, but even
just sending them an email every couple of months to see how things are
going.

Sending cards can be iffy, I personally enjoy getting them and we put them
up around the office... when sending them you have to think about who you
are sending them to. IE: I have alot of restaurant franchisees... a good
portion (70% or so) of my customer base is from India, China and Korea... so
I don't send "Merry Christmas" cards, instead sending "Season's Greetings".

The other thing with cards is they can build up... its like an endless
cycle. If you send ____ a card, odds are they will send you one back...
which means they'll probably send you one next year, so you have to be sure
to send them one next year... which keeps the cycle repeating.... as you add
more clients your christmas card list can get pretty big (and therefore
expensive). Last christmas I sent out about 1200 cards and received atleast
1000, and wound up adding another 75 people to my card list... so it just
keeps growing and can eventually get unwieldy

 

[Bernhard Sturm]

<interested>

Does that really work? My dad owns a business (medical one) and he does
this with people; follows them up 6 months after he doesn't need to,
sends them a card etc but I never really asked why - i thought he was
just being nice

So... by doing little thigns like this, it can actually make a big
impression on the client? When I get cards from my bank and whatnot, I
just chuck them away thinking "they only want my money" and for me it
creates a negative reaction - but perhaps i'm in a minority here then

</interested>

I always consider 'being nice to my clients' as part of my business
philosophy. It doesn't have to pay back imediately. I send them cards in
order to show them: we care and we have a point to make. (I never
advertise anything on my cards.. they are just there as a sign..

the following link shows the series of seasons greetings cards I sent to
my customers this year:

http://www.daszeichen.ch/new9911/thesign_03.htm

 

[KirstyH]

So... by doing little thigns like this, it can actually make a big
impression on the client? When I get cards from my bank and whatnot, I
just chuck them away thinking "they only want my money" and for me it
creates a negative reaction - but perhaps i'm in a minority here then

Imagine you're not very computer literate which is why you've had a
website designed for you. Two days after you pay your money and it goes
live you find a minor niggling thing wrong with it which you wish you'd
noticed before payment. A couple of days after that the design company
calls you back to ask if everything is alright and offers to fix the
problem at no further cost.

What do you think of them? Greedy money grabbing b*stards who are only
doing it to make sure they get your next contract? Or a good decent
company to work with who is very likely to get your next contract?

Kirsty
"You only get one chance to make a first impression" (who said that?)

 

[Andy Dingley]

Looks like something an 8 year old would draw up.

Nowt wrong with that....
http://napkinlaf.sourceforge.net/

 

[Grahammer]

Nowt wrong with that....
http://napkinlaf.sourceforge.net/

Doh!

Brings up a very important point when dealing with your boss!

Too bad I can see it in action. : (