A couple of question

[mario]

Hi guys, I have a couple of question for you.

I'm trying to rebuild an amatorial web application. I would like to
include blog and forum functionality. The problem is that I'd like to
share the same user management. I would like that a user registered to
my site is registered to blog and forum as well without having to user
different accounts. Are there any open source blog + forum that use
same user management? Otherwhise is there any chance to make two
different blog and forum platform to share same users without having
to use an LDAP?

Other question: I would like to give some user the option to load
contents and images. I would like to include a very simple image
editor in this content managament (just crop, resize, brightness-
contrast, rotate). I've checked around and the most suitable is
something like pixenate (http://pixenate.com/productinfo/
Features.html) but it's not free. Do you know any free image editor
that I can implement in my application?

Thanks a lot in advance!

mario

 

[Andrew Thompson]

..
...I would like to give some user the option to load
contents and images. I would like to include a very simple image
editor in this content managament (just crop, resize, brightness-
contrast, rotate).

You might be able to base it on Sun's Draw 4 app.*

* <http://java.sun.com/javase/technologies/desktop/javawebstart/apps/
draw.jnlp>

 

[mario]

Draw is for drawing and is a standalone application, I would prefer
some flash or javascript code to implement easily in my site, not some
applet.

 

[Ian Shef]

Draw is for drawing and is a standalone application, I would prefer
some flash or javascript code to implement easily in my site, not some
applet.

Then you would do better to ask your question in a flash or javascript
newsgroup. This newsgroup is for Java, not javascript.

Best wishes!

 

[mario]

Draw is for drawing and is a standalone application, I would prefer

Then you would do better to ask your question in a flash or javascript
newsgroup.  This newsgroup is for Java, not javascript.

Hi, I know this, but what I'm looking for is both a backend and
frontend tool. If I'd post in a javascript or flash group I would
probably get some code working on php crap, and I want a java backend
on image manipulation, that would be presented with jscript or flash
frontend. Like this one http://pixenate.com/productinfo/ but open
source
Thanks

mario

 

[Roedy Green]

frontend tool. If I'd post in a javascript or flash group I would
probably get some code working on php crap, and I want a java backend
on image manipulation, that would be presented with jscript or flash
frontend. Like this one http://pixenate.com/productinfo/ but open
source

This baffles me. IT is not just you.

Using Flash is like volunteering for a straitjacket. Why give Adobe
your nuts on a platter with Flash proprietary lockin? Why limit your
clients to Flash supported platforms?

Then JavaScript, is like building your house out of old plastic cups
and found bits of string. Why not use proper tools? Why invite the
headache of so many incompatible implementations?

PhP is was invented so novices could rapidly kludge together a
personal home page. It is way out of its depth for large propjets. It
is not even OO. Look how buggy the large sites are that use it.

--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

Never discourage anyone... who continually makes progress, no matter how slow.
~ Plato 428 BC died: 348 BC at age: 80

 

[Richard Riley]

This baffles me. IT is not just you.

Using Flash is like volunteering for a straitjacket. Why give Adobe
your nuts on a platter with Flash proprietary lockin? Why limit your
clients to Flash supported platforms?

Then JavaScript, is like building your house out of old plastic cups
and found bits of string. Why not use proper tools? Why invite the
headache of so many incompatible implementations?

PhP is was invented so novices could rapidly kludge together a
personal home page. It is way out of its depth for large propjets. It
is not even OO. Look how buggy the large sites are that use it.

All SW is buggy if written badly. PHP is fine if managed correctly and
the proper QA processes are in place.

I agree with your comments about Flash however and have noticed a
backlash from the average user who is sick of overly heavy and "flashy"
websites.

 

[Lew]

All SW is buggy if written badly. PHP is fine if managed correctly and
the proper QA processes are in place.

Assembly language is fine if managed correctly and the proper QA processes are
in place.

The advantage of high-level languages like PHP and Java is that they increase
productivity and make it easier to avoid error compared to low-level languages
like assembly.

The advantage of strict languages with good package structures and solid
paradigms for O-O, assertion, exceptions, type-checking and the lot, like
Java, is that they increase productivity and make it easier to avoid error
compared to the looser languages like PHP.

 

[Arved Sandstrom]

This baffles me. IT is not just you.

Using Flash is like volunteering for a straitjacket. Why give Adobe
your nuts on a platter with Flash proprietary lockin? Why limit your
clients to Flash supported platforms?

Then JavaScript, is like building your house out of old plastic cups
and found bits of string. Why not use proper tools? Why invite the
headache of so many incompatible implementations?

Come on, Roedy. I know you're no fan of JavaScript...I'm not exactly in
love with it either. The fact remains, however, that it is indispensable
for doing certain things in web pages, certainly for realistic
business applications. In this environment you can control what browsers
are used. Also, if you know what you're about, you let the JavaScript
experts write the code, and simply leverage their tested libraries.

I use CSS to the maximum extent that I can - and CSS can do amazing
things. But certain things it cannot do, and JavaScript can.

PhP is was invented so novices could rapidly kludge together a
personal home page. It is way out of its depth for large propjets. It
is not even OO. Look how buggy the large sites are that use it.

PHP, since version 5, has had pretty decent OO features. If you follow
best practices as described in articles like
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-php-7oohabits/
you'll do OK. I worked on a medium-sized PHP 5 project about 3 years ago
that compared well to Java in terms of being tight, maintainable and
efficient.

Would _I_ write a large application using PHP? No. But it would have to
be quite sizeable before I'd think that an accomplished PHP programmer
should consider another technology.

AHS

 

[Andrew Thompson]

Draw is for drawing and is a standalone application, I would prefer
some flash or javascript code to implement easily in my site, not some
applet.

Why? I think somebody mentioned the 'backlash
against Flash'. For my part, my internet is bought
by the Meg (of download). One way I save download
is to /not/ have Flash installed! Plus, I never
wanted to watch 'videos in a web page' in the first
place.

 

[Roedy Green]

Come on, Roedy. I know you're no fan of JavaScript...I'm not exactly in
love with it either. The fact remains, however, that it is indispensable
for doing certain things in web pages, certainly for realistic
business applications. In this environment you can control what browsers
are used. Also, if you know what you're about, you let the JavaScript
experts write the code, and simply leverage their tested libraries.

I detest JavaScript. I think I should file it in the Java glossary
under obfuscators.

JavaScript lets you generate HTML on the fly at the client. That is
its only redeeming virtue. Java could do that too much better if it
had the proper hook in the browser.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

Never discourage anyone... who continually makes progress, no matter how slow.
~ Plato 428 BC died: 348 BC at age: 80

 

[Richard Riley]

Assembly language is fine if managed correctly and the proper QA processes are
in place.

What a silly comparison. It was clear what my statement intended to mean
in the context.

The advantage of high-level languages like PHP and Java is that they increase
productivity and make it easier to avoid error compared to low-level languages
like assembly.

Of course.

The advantage of strict languages with good package structures and solid
paradigms for O-O, assertion, exceptions, type-checking and the lot, like
Java, is that they increase productivity and make it easier to avoid error
compared to the looser languages like PHP.

Languages like PHP can be perfectly well structured in my experience. OO
does not necessarily make for more robust in my experience. Decent API
design, parameter checking and unit testing makes PHP as good as
anything for many tasks. Good well tested code does not suddenly fall
apart or morph into a bug ridden mess.

Is PHP perfect? No. Of course not. But it serves its purposes and there
is some damn good application SW out there written in it.

I realise here in a Java group it might not be pc to support PHP, but it
has its uses and, personally, I like it.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

..
I detest JavaScript.  

That much is abundantly apparent.

..I think I should file it in the Java glossary
under obfuscators.

On what basis? Well written JavaScript is just as
easy to read and understand as well written Java.
The unfortunate aspect for reading JS is that very
little of it is well written, combined with some
scripts being obfuscated to trim the download size.

 

[Lew]

What a silly comparison. It was clear what my statement intended to mean
in the context.

Yes, I agree, your statement was quite clear.

 

[Lew]

That much is abundantly apparent.


On what basis? Well written JavaScript is just as
easy to read and understand as well written Java.
The unfortunate aspect for reading JS is that very
little of it is well written, combined with some
scripts being obfuscated to trim the download size.

And poorly-written Java can be a monster to read.

Sometimes it's clear to read, though. I was reading over a piece of
production Java code today and I involuntarily laughed out loud.

(It was a series of 'if (argument instanceof Type)' tests.)

 

[John B. Matthews]

What a silly comparison. It was clear what my statement intended to
mean in the context.

Yes, I agree, your statement was quite clear.[/QUOTE]

At the same time, I found the comparison quite apt. For creating a
web-based application, one developer might prefer PHP; another might
prefer Java; a third, GWT. Almost no one would choose Cobol, despite its
wide deployment and venerable heritage. In each case, the preference
hinges on such human aspects of software engineering as security,
maintainability, and team development. I found this article apropos:

<http://www.ddj.com/architect/217701907>

 

[Stefan Ram]

I agree with all of this, but it still drives me up a wall. I shouldn't
have to use JavaScript in web development. The choice of language should
really be up to the programmer. So why isn't anyone fixing this issue?

The Microsoft® Internet Explorer can be programmed using COM,
which is language neutral. But one can not access all functions
that are accessible using JavaScript.

Possibly, Microsoft, Inc., also has taken some effort to create
an API for scripting. IIRC, one can also use VBScript in a web
page displayed via the Microsoft® internet explorer, and possibly
every other language implementing some scripting API (I guess).

But this might not work with other browser. So the use of JavaScript
might make it easier for both authors of web pages and of web browser
to choose a scripting language, because there only is one. Otherwise
one might have to worry about whether browser X supports scripting
language Y. (There already were or are some differences between
JavaScript dialects in browser.)

I know at least one site that starts a hidden Java applet when
a user starts a visit. It seems that then JavaScript is used as
a glue code between this applet and the DOM. The applet then
communicates with the server and changes the DOM - that is, it
kind of replaces the browser part that is handling the communication
and uses the browser only as an HTML renderer - like AJAX, but
involving Java. So, if you take some care and effort to establish
such a framework, then you should be able to use Java on the
client side to do what usually is done with JavaScript.

Another means to use another language than JavaScript is to use
a compiler that can compile to JavaScript.

 

[Arved Sandstrom]

I agree with all of this, but it still drives me up a wall. I shouldn't
have to use JavaScript in web development. The choice of language should
really be up to the programmer. So why isn't anyone fixing this issue?
Why is it that there isn't a single browser that allows other cross
platform scripting languages? How hard would it be to allow programmers
to use a full fledged java implementation on the client side these days.

I really just don't understand this.

I'm looking forward to seeing something like this:
http://ejohn.org/blog/the-browser-scripting-revolution/. I don't have
any idea of how the projects referenced in that article are coming
along, mind you.

Used sparingly I don't myself find JavaScript to be that bad. While it
does give you enormous leeway to make errors that inevitably you
discover only at runtime, and the errors can be very cryptic, the main
JS debuggers out there, like Venkman, do a pretty decent job once you've
invested the time to figure them out.

AHS

 

[Joshua Cranmer]

Why is it that there isn't a single browser that allows other cross
platform scripting languages? How hard would it be to allow programmers
to use a full fledged java implementation on the client side these days.

The key problem is that there are two points that such an extension
would need to access: first, the binding point to load off of the
<script> tags or onload, etc., attributes. The second point is the
reification of browser APIs into that extension.

Problem one I will assume is simple for any well-implemented,
extension-minded browser to deal with.

The second problem is non-trivial: you have to cross language boundaries
(most browsers are likely to be written in C or C++, not Java), which
involves a lot of two-way bridging.

I will give you an example using the Mozilla source code, detailing what
needs to be done:
1. Implement the (C++) interface "nsIScriptRuntime", which the parser
uses to create...
2. an nsIScriptContext object (again, C++ interface) which does pretty
much everything else, bridging the parser and the script source, as well
as being the go-between for actual invocation. This more or less
requires turning XPIDL interfaces into the Java objects. There is some
extension to do Java XPCOM calls, but I'm pretty sure you would rather
that events use org.w3c.dom.html.HTMLElement instead of
org.mozilla.interfaces.nsIDOMHTMLElement.

Yet before that, you need to figure out what the syntax of such stuff
should be. You also have the problem that not everyone would have a
browser capable of executing Java script code (that would be painful to
write!)--therein lies a chicken-and-egg problem that is so common in the
technological world.

In short: you're looking at a few thousand lines of code, excluding the
code for an XPCOM-Java bridge. I also don't know how the classloading
schemes work, but I can bet that you'll probably need to write one,
which is also going to be painful. Getting Mozilla's Python scripting
extension to work took quite a bit of work; Java would be more complex.
Then you need to repeat it for other major browsers.

I think such an extension would be interesting in its own right, but I
don't think the effort would be fully worth it.

 

[mario]

This baffles me. IT is not just you.

Using Flash is like volunteering for a straitjacket.  Why give Adobe
your nuts on a platter with Flash proprietary lockin?  Why limit your
clients to Flash supported platforms?

Then JavaScript, is like building your house out of old plastic cups
and found bits of string.  Why not use proper tools?  Why invite the
headache of so many incompatible implementations?

PhP is was invented so novices could rapidly kludge together a
personal home page. It is way out of its depth for large propjets. It
is not even OO. Look how buggy the large sites are that use it.

--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Productshttp://mindprod.com

Never discourage anyone... who continually makes progress, no matter how slow.
~ Plato 428 BC died: 348 BC at age: 80

Ok, I agree with you, and I usually don't like to use flash, but look
at this:

http://www.pixlr.com/editor/

This is impressive isn't it? And there are other similar made in
jscript. Ok, I don't need something like that, I just need a very
simple rotate, crop, resize, brightness-contrast editor to implement
in my site, but I thought maybe is just easier to find a ready to use
code in flash or jscript to do what I'm looking for.
Anyway, apart from the image editor, any hint on blog + forum? This is
strict java code

Thanks!