Algebra Rizing

K

Kenneth Tilton

Now you can ask for hints (and a bunch more is fixed):

http://teamalgebra.com/

I like -3x > 15 because then it offers two hints, one about dividing on
both sides and one about flipping the inequality.

That is the qooxdoo JS library driven by a Lisp server app running
AllegroServe, all with Cells Inside(tm), running on an AWS 64-bit instance.

Don't mind the whacky color scheme, that is just leftover debuggery to
help me sort out the qooxdoo layout manager. It's pretty powerful hence
sometimes surprising.

Bit of a bummer: that is still running on a 64-bit AWS instance because
the app hangs somewhere installed on a 32-bitter. Hmmm, I have VM
Workstation....awesome, I will be able to debug using the ACL IDE.

kt
 
K

kodifik

Don't mind the whacky color scheme, that is just leftover debuggery to
help me sort out the qooxdoo layout manager. It's pretty powerful hence
sometimes surprising.

FYI
It does not seem to work well with a spanish keyboard.
--http://www.stuckonalgebra.com
"The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself."
Macworld

You seem to be also stuckonproprietarysoftware
 
R

Richard Cornford

Now you can ask for hints (and a bunch more is fixed):

http://teamalgebra.com/
<snip>

OK, what is the point of positing to a javascript group a link to a
web page that produces a javascript error before it even finishes
loading (that being a total failure by any javascript standard)? That
error being:-

Line: 5180
Char: 9
Error: Image modification not possible because elements could not be
replaced at runtime anymore!
Code: 0
URL: http://temoalgebra.com/

(It is a custom error, presumably produced by whatever library you are
using, but what on earth is that "anymore" about? A browser either can
replace elements at runtime or it cannot; it is not a faculty that
comes and goes).

And don't you think that a 2.5 MB download is a little excessive for a
single web page (even if it were actually functional)?

Richard.
 
K

Kenneth Tilton

Richard said:
<snip>

OK, what is the point of positing to a javascript group a link to a
web page ...

It is based on qooxlisp, a great JS library, is the point.

that produces a javascript error before it even finishes

Works for me on Chrome, FireFox, Safari, and IE. And slowly on Opera.

loading (that being a total failure by any javascript standard)? That
error being:-

Line: 5180
Char: 9
Error: Image modification not possible because elements could not be
replaced at runtime anymore!
Code: 0
URL: http://temoalgebra.com/

What the hell is temoalgebra? Try: http://teamalgebra.com/

Nice bug report. No browser, no OS...
(It is a custom error, presumably produced by whatever library you are
using, but what on earth is that "anymore" about? A browser either can
replace elements at runtime or it cannot; it is not a faculty that
comes and goes).

And don't you think that a 2.5 MB download is a little excessive for a
single web page (even if it were actually functional)?

Last I looked it was ~800k and the "single web page" is the entire web
application (which was 40mb as a desltop app).

Kids will work on Algebra for 10-50 minutes at a time, they'll wait 2-3s.

kt
 
R

Richard Cornford

It is based on qooxlisp, a great JS library, is the point.

The point you are making about qooxlisp is probably not the point you
think you are making.
that produces a javascript error before it even finishes

Works for me on Chrome, FireFox, Safari, and IE. And slowly
on Opera.

That seems to be an exaggeration.
What the hell is temoalgebra? Try:http://teamalgebra.com/

It is a typo.
Nice bug report. No browser, no OS...

What has the OS got to do with anything? And there is only one browser
that outputs its error reports in that style (which means that only
someone who was not looking at their error reports would not recognise
it (which would also be someone who thought something was fine while
it was generating errors)).
Last I looked it was ~800k

It sounds like you are not measuring your HTTP traffic very
effectively.
and the "single web page" is the entire web
application

That is probably a mater of perspective.
(which was 40mb as a desltop app).

Kids will work on Algebra for 10-50 minutes at a time, they'll
wait 2-3s.

35 seconds here for an initial load, and gambling on the patience of
children doesn't sound like it has as much mileage as you think.

Richard.
 
H

His kennyness

The point you are making about qooxlisp is probably not the point you
think you are making.

Sorry, I meant qooxdoo. qooxlisp is my integration of Lisp and qooxdoo.
That seems to be an exaggeration.

No luck with Konqueror. Or Opera. FireFox and Chrome are fine on Ubuntu.
It is a typo.


What has the OS got to do with anything?

Oh, right, the same browser on different OSes always works exactly the
same. Not a programmer, eh?
And there is only one browser
that outputs its error reports in that style (which means that only
someone who was not looking at their error reports would not recognise
it (which would also be someone who thought something was fine while
it was generating errors)).


It sounds like you are not measuring your HTTP traffic very
effectively.

What I measured was the 2s it took for the app to come up. Case closed.
That is probably a mater of perspective.

No, that is how it works. After the page loads it's all the JS sailing
back and forth altering what the user sees.

You should talk less and learn more.
35 seconds here for an initial load, ..

I get 2s no matter where I try it, so I will just ignore your report
unless you have a stack to report as well.
and gambling on the patience of
children doesn't sound like it has as much mileage as you think.

Talk about childish...

kt
 
H

His kennyness

FYI
It does not seem to work well with a spanish keyboard.

What browser? I just saw the hyphen keystroke come through as "m" using
Opera (and had reports similar to yours from users of said:
You seem to be also stuckonproprietarysoftware

Yeah, we're going to put all you Communists out of business.

kt
 
J

John G Harris

Nice bug report. No browser, no OS...
<snip>

It gets javascript errors for me as well. (More than one).

Hint:
It's the browser that Microsoft security updates recommend.
It's the browser that's being heavily advertised in magazines and
newspapers.

And it's XP SP3.

John
 
E

Evertjan.

John G Harris wrote on 29 jun 2010 in comp.lang.javascript:
It's the browser that Microsoft security updates recommend.
It's the browser that's being heavily advertised in magazines and
newspapers.

And it's XP SP3.

That's not a browser.
 
R

Richard Cornford

Sorry, I meant qooxdoo. qooxlisp is my integration of Lisp
and qooxdoo.

Alright, the point you think you are making about qooxdoo is probably
not the point that you are making.
No luck with Konqueror. Or Opera. FireFox and Chrome are fine
on Ubuntu.

See, as you get more specific the list gets shorter.
Oh, right, the same browser on different OSes always works exactly
the same.

Yes, to the extent that they are the same browser.
Not a programmer, eh?

If you say so.
What I measured was the 2s it took for the app to come up. Case
closed.

Returning to the point of your post; wasn't there some intention to
make that point to a wider audience?
No, that is how it works.

I ma talking about the label. You show me a broken toy and call it an
"application", I don't see it that way.
After the page loads it's all the JS sailing
back and forth altering what the user sees.

You should talk less and learn more.

Possibly I should learn to identify those who are not capable of
listening more quickly.
I get 2s no matter where I try it, so I will just ignore your
report unless you have a stack to report as well.

A somewhat arbitrary reason for ignoring someone (though I doubt that
it will be followed through).
Talk about childish...

?

Richard.
 
H

His kennyness

<snip>

It gets javascript errors for me as well. (More than one).

Errors or are you see the logging to the console I forgot to take out?

Does the app come up and let you do Algebra?
Hint:
It's the browser that Microsoft security updates recommend.
It's the browser that's being heavily advertised in magazines and
newspapers.

And it's XP SP3.

I just tested on XP Pro 2002 SP3 with IE, no problems.

But I really should get those console.logs out of there.

thx for the report.

kt
 
H

His kennyness

Alright, the point you think you are making about qooxdoo is probably
not the point that you are making.


See, as you get more specific the list gets shorter.

I'll struggle along without selling to people who cannot use FireFox,
Chrome, Safari, and IE as long as I can.
Yes, to the extent that they are the same browser.


If you say so.


Returning to the point of your post; wasn't there some intention to
make that point to a wider audience?


I ma talking about the label. You show me a broken toy and call it an
"application", I don't see it that way.

Hey, it's just a POC right now, and pretty damn exciting to anyone who
knows the desktop app and knows how little time it is taking me to get a
similar GUI up under all the browsers that matter.

The big win was jsMath, which took care of the math layout which I used
to do (badly) myself.
Possibly I should learn to identify those who are not capable of
listening more quickly.


A somewhat arbitrary reason for ignoring someone (though I doubt that
it will be followed through).

Sorry, we call this triage: someone making un-reproducible reports of
behavior 20 times slower than is observed elsewhere has to be ignored
until I can outsource your call to India.

kt
 
J

John G Harris

Errors or are you see the logging to the console I forgot to take out?
Errors.


Does the app come up and let you do Algebra?

Can't tell. What is it supposed to do?

I just tested on XP Pro 2002 SP3 with IE, no problems.

Which IE ?

John
 
E

Evertjan.

His kennyness wrote on 29 jun 2010 in comp.lang.javascript:
I requested as much info as possible so I could try to reproduce.

Not that much info is necessary, just a mate of the opposite sex.
Then it is just like debugging, trial and error correction.
 
H

His kennyness

Errors or are you see the logging to the console I forgot to take out?

btw, were you seeing 404s on things like char3E.png?

I thought I had provided all the support files required by jsMath, but I
did not even come close. Now rectified. Opps, one more font directory to
go. Glad you asked.

kt
 
R

RobG

Now you can ask for hints (and a bunch more is fixed):

http://teamalgebra.com/

Very slow to load, over 20 seconds. Sometimes it gets stuck and just
stops loading in a dysfunctional state and a reload is required to get
it to "work".

Freestyle section:

Seems dysfunctional and very slow. Selecting "Simplify" and entering:

y = 2x + 3x

does not seem to do anything useful. The delete key does nothing.
Pressing return after finishing typing does nothing. Entering "==" as
suggested in the typing tutorial does nothing. Clicking "Hint" does
nothing.

I have no idea whether the application is supposed to simplify the
function or if I am expected to enter the simplification and it will
check if I'm right. I couldn't do either to find out.

Typing tutorial section:

When instructions on the screen are followed precisely, things go as
planned (more or less, if you have a lot of patience and wait
diligently for the display to update). Any deviation can have
unpredictable results.

The UI is awful. Apart from being very slow (glacial) and jerky when
keys are pressed, it doesn't work as one might expect:

1. The delete key doesn't do anything
2. Selecting multiple characters and pressing backspace should delete
the selected characters - it doesn't.
3. Shift+left arrow should select one or more characters to the left
of the cursor - it doesn't.
4. Inside a text field, the cursor should be able to be positioned
using the mouse, it can't
5. Pressing the tab key 3 or 4 times results in the cursor jumping
around more or less randomly between fields. Text may be entered into
any field, or different ones. The random jerkiness continues for some
time, minutes at least.

Other sections don't have any useful content yet.

Overall, it rates somewhere between dysfunctional and unusable.

For the record, I used Firefox 3.6.6 on Windows XP.

An OT question: what place does automatic parenthesis insertion have
in an algebra tutorial? Shouldn't students be learning where to put
them themselves?

I like -3x > 15 because then it offers two hints, one about dividing on
both sides and one about flipping the inequality.

Where? When? How?
That is the qooxdoo JS library driven by a Lisp server app running
AllegroServe, all with Cells Inside(tm), running on an AWS 64-bit instance.

So if I want a slow, dysfunctional application I should use those
technologies?

Don't mind the whacky color scheme, that is just leftover debuggery to
help me sort out the qooxdoo layout manager. It's pretty powerful hence
sometimes surprising.

On the contrary, I think Qooxdoo is a significant part of your
problem. Have you tried a minimalist approach, using HTML and CSS as
much as possible and keeping scripting to an absolute minimum? How
about an approach where the user types into a field and can see the
resulting formatted expression in a separate part of the page?

Creating an entire UI in javascript is rarely a good idea, that is why
frameworks like Qooxdoo are almost certain to fail when applied to
applications on the web.

--http://www.stuckonalgebra.com
"The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself."
Macworld

Perhaps you should ask them to review your web version.
 

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