Another spinoza challenge

B

Ben Bacarisse

James Kuyper said:
Eighth grade, for me.


Do they need an excuse? Most students forget such esoteric facts
shortly after the final exam. It's mainly the ones who actually end up
using those facts that really remember them for any length of time.

Is it just me, or is "any length of time" a wonderful example of what
this sub-thread is about? At the very least, there is too much irony
in it's use for it to pass unnoticed.
 
I

Ike Naar

I think the UK "Weights and measures act" does not agree.

Not sure what part of the sentence your commenting on, or where
you're getting at; perhaps you can elaborate?

A quick glance at the 1985 version of the Act reveals that it makes
no distinction between "mass" and "weight"; part I, sec 1, sub (2)
defines "weight" as equivalent to "mass" for the purposes of the Act.
The unit of measurement of mass or weight is the kilogram or the pound.

The Act doesn't mention gravitation at all, and only mentions the newton
once, in the definition of the ampere, where it's unrelated to weight.

Apparently, in a legal context, just like in everyday use, there
is no need to make a distinction between mass and weight. That does
not mean that in certain scientific contexts the distinction can't be
made or isn't a useful one.

The UK Act, by the way, has no jurisdiction where I live.
 
K

Keith Thompson

Judging by the quality of the other questions, I think it's *very*
likely that the author didn't know that certain identifiers are
reserved.
More likely, the author was merely testing student's knoweldge of what
tokens can be use in a variable name - regardless where it comes from.
I recall that a valid variable name it's an alphanumeric or
underscore, followed by alphanumeric or underscore, and cannot be a
keyword (either from the standard or implementation).


Note that I'm not the only one who considerd it to be a valid identifier.
This isn't a decmocracy though.

The actual question was whether it's a valid variable name.
And the sticking point is the meaning of the word "valid", a word
which is not defined by the C standard and whose English meaning
is not sufficiently precise to provide an unambiguous answer.

In any case, the fact that people with thorough knowledge of the
rules of C disagree about the correct answer suggest that it's a
bad question, at least if the goal of the question was to have a
single correct answer.
 
K

Keith Thompson

Nick Keighley said:
free fall

Non-accelerating with respect to what? In low Earth orbit, you're
accelerating at nearly 1 G with respect to the planet.

Hey, wait, is this off-topic?
 
C

chad

because no one walks into the bathroom wondering what their torque is
today.

"Join Torque Watchers today and watch the newton metres just fall
away!"

Isn't torque a form of a force? I guess I'm curious because I was
always under the impression that when you weigh yourself in the
bathroom, the weight you look at was the result of some kind of
vertical force (vs a torque). Of course, I believe the weight would
change if would abruptly turn on the scale because a naked woman just
walked into the room. I believe this abrupt turn is called a torque.
 
R

Rui Maciel

Richard said:
Or "tonnage", for short?

I doubt that, as tonnage is a measurement of mass while a Newton is a measurement of force.

If I'm not mistaken, in some languages the term ton is named "tonelada", a term that referred to the mass
amount that could be stored in a "tonel", which is a type of barrel. As a typical barrel usually had a
capacity of around 1m^3 and 1m^3 is the volume occupied by exactly 1000kg of water...


Rui Maciel
 
M

Moi

Isn't torque a form of a force? I guess I'm curious because I was always

Is "angular force" a correct term in English?
under the impression that when you weigh yourself in the bathroom, the
weight you look at was the result of some kind of vertical force (vs a
torque). Of course, I believe the weight would change if would abruptly
turn on the scale because a naked woman just walked into the room. I
believe this abrupt turn is called a torque.

Well it depends on the moment, IMNSHO.

AvK
 
J

jameskuyper

chad wrote:
....
Isn't torque a form of a force?

No, torque is caused by application of force, but it is not itself any
kind of force. It's the force multiplied by the displacement from a
pivot point (to be precise, it's a vector cross-product), and the
choice of pivot point is arbitrary, so in general you need to specify
the pivot point in order to know what the torque means (though in many
contexts there will be an obvious choice for the pivot).
... I guess I'm curious because I was
always under the impression that when you weigh yourself in the
bathroom, the weight you look at was the result of some kind of
vertical force (vs a torque). Of course, I believe the weight would
change if would abruptly turn on the scale because a naked woman just
walked into the room. I believe this abrupt turn is called a torque.

No. When you turn to face the woman, your legs apply forces to your
torso. Since your legs are attached to your torso at different points,
the forces cause a net torque, which makes your torso turn. The torque
is not the force, though it is caused by the force. The turn itself is
not a torque, though it is caused by the torque.
Note that there are balancing forces applied by your feet to the
scale, which is in contact with the earth. As a result, your legs are
also applying an equal and opposite torque to the entire earth.
Because the moment of inertia of the earth is much greater than the
moment of intertia of your torso, the resulting rotation of the earth
is far too small to measure, but in principle it must be occurring,
even if we can't measure it.
 
M

Moi

Moi said:



Normally it's described as "turning force".

Thanks.

BTW This is rather strange, because the corresponding terms "angular
moment", "angular velocity" would suggest the existence of "angular
force".

AvK
 
R

Rui Maciel

chad said:
Isn't torque a form of a force?

No. While force is measured in [N], torque/moment is measured in [N.m]. It's a mathematical entity which may
be used to express, among other things, the stress distribution acting on a structure's given section.


Rui Maciel
 
C

cognacc

I also learned to deistifguish between mass and weight.
I had physics training in school in 7.grade it started.
thats 13 years old...
i was interested in physics like things, so i might have known some a
bit earlier.?

Well i always had a problem with only exists a force when
accelerating.
Which started on philosifying what "force" was, and if there were
differnt kinds of ""forces""
(bending the terminology somewhat)!
Therefore i liked "pulse" calculations better, (M*v) and it also very
easy to use with vector
calculations. "YEAH" it was 1 of my favorite physics subjects.

Any way mass is not the same as weight, is the side i take .. :)
This was drilled into us both school (folk), at high school, and more.
So in a science context is bad form :) uhuh to use those
interchangably.

And a link that agrees with me..
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/mass.html

also look at wikipedia first sentence elegently and short tells the
difference.
Maybe i missed it in what context was it? (the interview!).
Any way forgive the interviewer if its in his field its hard not to be
rigourous about
this.


mic
 
O

osmium

"luserXtrog" wrrote:
Upon adjusting my answers to discover the test's notions of the
right answers, some oddities emerged:
C is considered "high-level", not "low-level".

"Considered" is a waffling word, so a bad guess here should not change a
numerical score. They should remove the word or remove the question if they
want to be taken seriously.
 
D

Dik T. Winter

>
> Not sure what part of the sentence your commenting on, or where
> you're getting at; perhaps you can elaborate? ....
> Apparently, in a legal context, just like in everyday use, there
> is no need to make a distinction between mass and weight. That does
> not mean that in certain scientific contexts the distinction can't be
> made or isn't a useful one.

Which implies that a statement like you made (quoted above) point-blank
is in fact wrong. In some contexts it is better, in other contexts it
is not better.
 
I

Ike Naar

Which implies that a statement like you made (quoted above) point-blank
is in fact wrong. In some contexts it is better, in other contexts it
is not better.

I can only admid that.
 
S

spinoza1111

Hmm.

Question 1: C is a low/mid/high level language.  Depends largely on
context.  Compared to assembly, it's high level.  Compared to 4GLs, it's
low level.  Most reasonable is mid-level, but how does one objectively
determine this?

Good answer
Question 3: True or false: "Computers understand C".

Computers understand nothing, at least yet; that's a concept reserved for
sentient beings.  
Excellent.

Therefore false.  On the other hand, if computers
didn't understand C, compilers wouldn't work, so the answer must be
true.  On the other hand, the CPU probably doesn't deal with C directly
(I'm unaware of any that do, though I presume it's not impossible to
create one), so the answer must be true.  On the other hand...

We're not worthy
er, shall we just flip a coin on this one?

Question 5: "Which language does NOT have a syntax similar to that of C":
C++, JavaScript, VB, Perl, Java.

Hmm.  Frankly, none of them are particularly similar, IMO, but again,
it's a judgement call.

Oops. The clear answer is Visual Basic. All the others have a VERY
IMPORTANT feature, and this is explicit block structure. VB doesn't
have explicit block structure:

If a>b then
c = 0
else
d = 0
end if

As I show in my book, there is a "virtual" block structure. The "then"
keyword in VB both ends the if condition, disposing with C's, perl's
and Java's need for a curley brace, and starts a block that is ended
by the closest Else, which must balance in the same way as the curley
brace.

But this was a confusing add-in to an original Basic which was like
Fortran and assembler in that it used Go To to express block
structure. It works well once you know it (I've written a compiler in
VB) but it tends to expose the narrowness, incompetence, and utter
proviciality of C programmers who've learned only a syntactical rule,
and not what block structure actually means.
Question 7: Which is a valid C comment?
/* comment */
<!-- comment -->
/* /* comment */ */
// comment
' comment

Didn't C99 ratify the use of C++ style // comments?  If so, how does one
pick two answers here?

Use your common sense and test-taking knowledge. Reason that in this
question, the narrower definition of C (which prohibits // comments,
as Heathfield reminded me) is meant.

If you can't deal with ambiguity, don't talk to end users.

Question 9: which is a valid "Hello, world" program?

I won't copy out all the options available, I'll simply note two issues:
none of them end the output with either a \n or an fflush, which in this
particular instance may not be such a big deal, but is piss-poor style...
but worse, none of them appear to have the requisite newline at end-of-
file, meaning none of them are valid.

What does "requisite" mean? If it means boo hoo I didn't see what I
wanted, welcome to the real world. Surely C is not THAT bad. Surely
you don't need a newline to push the last character out. Let me try
it...

int main()
{
printf("Goodbye, cruel world");
return 0;
}

No, it is not necessary.
Question 10: #include is a ??? command
Rootprocessor
Postprocessor
Preprocessor
...

AFAIK, it's not a command at all, so what does one answer here?

Now, this response is IDIOTIC, and its based on the Great Illusion of
the Dweeb: that unless words have fixed meanings, thought isn't
possible.
Question 11: To use printf, you need the ??? file:
idiots.h
stdio.h
stdio.c
studio.h
studio.c

None of the above; what you need is a valid prototype in scope.  Aside
from that, nothing in C requires any of the standard includes to actually
be files, last I heard.

Oh, COME ON.

In a recent essay of Knuth, Knuth properly identifies the REAL
function of programming languages: to help human beings communicate
their intentions in using their computers.

If this wasn't necessary, you could wire plugboards or code machine
language!

But, human language is contextual, with ambiguity that is resolved
only when a communicative act is performed.

This is for the same reason, in fact, that what linguists call an
"open" part of speech can only be associated with a word when that
word is used: for example, in Hong Kong English, we can say "no
smoking I will crazy", using "crazy" not as an adjective but as a
verb. We can also say lan dak wu to, it's not easy to get stupid, but
das ist ein anders.

The fact is, that programmers, unless intimidated by fat thugs, use
words like "command" to refer to #include statements.

False precision is not fungible with regards to intelligence.

The vicious attacks here on good people like Herb Schildt and Jacob
Navia are the direct result of this fucking illusion about the nature
of human language.
Question 12: All C programs must have a ??? function:
man
min
root
goto
main

Correct answer: none of the above.  Freestanding implementations, last I
checked, are allowed to have implementation-defined starting points.

Smartass. This means, in fact, that C is broken if it is true, for no
usable language depends upon external settings (compiler switches) for
its semantics. Many Options are a sign of sodom.
Question 15: Which of the following are data types?
car
triple
single
str
string
float
double
fraction
int
char

Hmm, potentially all of them.  No way to know without seeing the code.- Hide quoted text -

Well, you have failed the test.
 
J

James Kuyper

Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
....
Question 5: "Which language does NOT have a syntax similar to that of C":
C++, JavaScript, VB, Perl, Java.

Hmm. Frankly, none of them are particularly similar, IMO, but again,
it's a judgement call.

Most strictly conforming C code can, with re-writes that are usually
relatively minor, be compiled with either C or C++ to generate the same
behavior as the original code. I'd say that's a fair amount of similarity.
 
P

Paul

No, it means that C is portable even to machines with a
fixed entry symbol.

Or it means that C is useful in an embedded software programming
environment where the developers are responsible for all code starting
with the microprocessor/microcontroller reset vector including the C
static memory initialization. This is just one example of a free-
standing environment. Even then we sometimes use main() as the entry
vector but not always defined in one of its two primary forms in a
hosted environment.
No, many options are a sign of flexibility.
<snip>
 

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