C# or VB.NET?

[M. Ali Qureshi]

Hi,

I am a beginner in .NET. I have been coding in plain asp before, using
VBScript, and now when i'm migrating to .NET, i obviously chosed VB.NET.

But.... when i see code samples on net, they are mostly in C#, i also saw a
post in this newsgroup where someone mentioned that it was a very "heated
topic back in 2002 about VB.NET vs C#".

So, my question is... what was the result of that topic?
What is best to go for, VB.NET or C#? and why?

Thanks and regards

 

[Kevin Spencer]

Which language you choose depends on a number of factors. If you are a
professional and have career in mind, C# is going to give you better odds at
advancing your career. In addition, as you've noticed, it is much easier to
find examples and samples written in C#. On the other hand, if you are a
casual or part-time developer, and you have little or no experience with the
C or Java language families, and are familiar with VB or VBScript, and you
are not familiar with object-oriented programming, it might be easier for
you to ease into ASP.Net with VB.Net, and worry about learning or not
learning C# later on. The difference between the programming paradigm of ASP
classic and ASP.Net is quite a learning curve. However, it might be argued
that learning C# when you start learning ASP.Net will help you keep from
falling into the trap of thinking in ASP classic terms when doing ASP.Net.

Ultimately, it's entirely up to you, and, as Led Zeppelin once said, "there
are 2 paths you can go by, but in the long run, there's still time to change
the road you're on."

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Chicken Salad Surgeon
Microsoft MVP

 

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

I am a beginner in .NET. I have been coding in plain ASP before, using
VBScript, and now when I'm migrating to .NET, I obviously chose VB.NET.

Obviously??? You've clearly fallen into the trap that VB.NET is somehow an
upgrade of Visual Basic and that ASP.NET is somehow an upgrade of ASP
Classic. Apart from some peripheral syntactic similarities, nothing could be
further from the truth. The reason, of course, is the .NET Framework...

Since you're familiar with ASP Classic, you no doubt enjoy the comfort
factor of Dim This As That, If...Then...Else...End If etc... But, since
you're familiar with ASP Classic, you've almost certainly had some exposure
to JavaScript, so basic C# syntax will already be totally understandable to
you...

But.... when i see code samples on net, they are mostly in C#, i also saw
a post in this newsgroup where someone mentioned that it was a very
"heated topic back in 2002 about VB.NET vs C#".

That was me...

So, my question is... what was the result of that topic?

There was no result, because there is no right or wrong answer... Both
languages are (almost) identical in terms of functionality - the only main
advantage that C# had over VB.NET was support for unsafe code i.e. pointers.
The reason that both languages are (almost) identical is because they both
target the .NET Framework. At it most simplistic level, it really doesn't
matter at all what .NET language you use - they are all identical...

What is best to go for, VB.NET or C#? and why?

Both, and then decide which you prefer.

It's my personal opinion that VB.NET is a totally unnecessary language, and
it exists purely for reasons of marketing. Back in early 2002, outside of
Microsoft and a tiny beta test community, there were no C# programmers at
all. But there were millions and millions of VB programmers, and Microsoft
weren't about to alienate them by releasing a new development suite with no
flavour of Basic...

Prior to .NET, I'd made my living almost exclusively with the various
dialects of Basic right back as far as QuickBasic and on through VB for DOS,
VB for Windows, VBScript, AccessBasic, WordBasic, VBA etc.

But, after about a day with C#, I knew that I never wanted to write another
line of Basic again! And, apart from one piece of work in 2004 that I simply
couldn't turn down, I never have...

However, that's just my opinion...

 

[CMoya]

I disagree with you. Although I like C#, it's only because of a sense of
cachet that it gives you that you probably feel the way you do (because of
the fuzzy feeling you get when you think it's somehow related to C++ in some
way-- when really it's not). Aside from C#'s pointer and rudimentary
unmanaged code ability (useless in most business solutions), VB does MORE
than C#. VB event wiring is better (withevents), intellisense + syntax
checking much much better (background compiling as you type), built in
functions that wrap a lot of code up (for example, Asc, Left, Mid etc...
that handle exceptions gracefully) in both the VisualBasic Library namespace
and the handy "My" namespace. Add to that VB2008's superior LINQ/XML
implementation and you have a clear superior.

Now, you're perfectly welcome to prefer the C# syntax. But in terms of
functionality VB is not "identical" to C#... it's better.

C. Moya
http://www.cmoya.com

 

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

I disagree with you. Although I like C#, it's only because of a sense of
cachet that it gives you that you probably feel the way you do (because of
the fuzzy feeling you get when you think it's somehow related to C++ in
some way-- when really it's not).

Not true at all - I've never used C/C++ at all in my entire career...

Aside from C#'s pointer and rudimentary unmanaged code ability

You mean unsafe code, not unmanaged code...

VB event wiring is better (withevents),

WithEvents is totally unnecessary in C#, otherwise it would have it:
http://www.thescripts.com/forum/thread255585.html

Asc
http://www.thescripts.com/forum/thread441566.html

Left, Mid
http://www.thescripts.com/forum/thread246103.html

Now, you're perfectly welcome to prefer the C# syntax. But in terms of
functionality VB is not "identical" to C#... it's better.

We'll have to agree to disagree...

 

[M. Ali Qureshi]

Just as i was about to be convinced to go with c#, CMoya's comments have
again put me back at 0-point

Well, i am a part-time/casual developer. By profession i am a SysAdmin.
Developing is something i just like doing in my free time, and i create
small applications for internal use i our company, which are often
appreciated, since the developers are always working for customers.

The reason why i started with vb.net is because of the familiar syntax of
VBScript (Dim, if then else, for each etc etc...). I do have very good
knowlege og Javascript and a bit knowlege of J2EE as well. So, i dont really
think it will be much of trouble for me to switch to c#. Also because i'm
still a beginner with .NET.

But again, CMoya's comments sounds quite promising in favour of VB. Though
honestly, i didn't understand quite a few things he mentioned . But all
i'm looking for is "best" way to choose.

Thank you all for your helpful replies.

Regards.

 

[M. Ali Qureshi]

Hi,

Just as i was about to be convinced to go with c#, CMoya's comments have
again put me back at 0-point

Well, i am a part-time/casual developer. By profession i am a SysAdmin.
Developing is something i just like doing in my free time, and i create
small applications for internal use i our company, which are often
appreciated, since the full-time developers are always working for
customers.

The reason why i started with vb.net is because of the familiar syntax of
VBScript (Dim, if then else, for each etc etc...). I do have very good
knowlege og Javascript and a bit knowlege of J2EE as well. So, i dont really
think it will be much of trouble for me to switch to c#. Also because i'm
still a beginner with .NET.

But again, CMoya's comments sounds quite promising in favour of VB. Though
honestly, i didn't understand a few things he mentioned . But all i'm
looking for is "best" way to choose.

Thank you all for your helpful replies.

Regards.

 

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

But all I'm looking for is "best" way to choose.

Why do you actually have to choose at all...?

 

[M. Ali Qureshi]

Why do you actually have to choose at all...?
Maybe that was wrong choice of words. "Best way to begin" maybe

Well, i have alot to learn in .NET yet, and if i go to c#, then syntax will
be yet another thing to learn. Besides, most of the samples online are in
c#, and by converting them always to VB for me will give me some knolege of
c# as well.

But since you are an MVP in asp.net. What would you suggest a beginner with
my background. VB or C# to begin learning?

Regards.

 

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

Maybe that was wrong choice of words. "Best way to begin" maybe

Fair enough.

But since you are an MVP in asp.net. What would you suggest a beginner
with my background. VB or C# to begin learning?

I would suggest you begin with C#, for no other reason that it will force
you to think in an object-orientated .NET way and prevent you from carrying
over any of the VBScript baggage...

I've known quite a few new (to .NET) developers who have begun with VB.NET
and then switched to C# - I've never known the reverse...

And, if ever you find yourself thinking "How would I have done this in ASP
Classic?", then have a five-minute break and approach the problem again from
the beginning...

 

[CMoya]

You missed the point.... with your links. For example:
The replacement for VB's "str2 = Left(str, 5)" is not string.Substring(...).
It's

if (str != null)
{
if (str.Length >= 6) {
str2 = str.Substring(0, 5);
}
else {
str2 = str;
}
}
else {
str2 = string.Empty;
}

The C# way! Sure you can encapsulate this (and everyone will do it
differently... and forget a conditional here or there... and u might see the
encapsulation in a bunch of places if many developers work on the same
project). But, this is just one of example of VB's "moreness" and robustness
compared to C#.

 

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

But, this is just one of example of VB's "moreness" and robustness
compared to C#.

OK.

 

[CMoya]

VB event wiring is better (withevents),

WithEvents is totally unnecessary in C#, otherwise it would have it:
http://www.thescripts.com/forum/thread255585.html

Also, I guess VB doesn't need WithEvents/Handles either since it supports
both the C# manual += adding of events (via AddHandler... remember to remove
it too at some point!) AND a cleaner "declarative" WithEvents / Handles way.

Private Sub Button1_Click(...) Handles Button1.Click
....
End Sub
or (to similate old school VB control arrays)
Private Sub Buttons_Click(...) Handles Button1.Click, Button2.Click,
Button3.Click
....
End Sub

No need to tear down the event handler either.

 

[CMoya]

I would suggest you begin with C#, for no other reason that it will force

you to think in an object-orientated .NET way and prevent you from
carrying over any of the VBScript baggage...

How is VB any less object-oriented than C#? Inheritance? Check. Interfaces?
Check. Namespaces? Check.
And what exactly is VBScript baggage and how is it different than JScript
baggage?

I mean, I'm not trying to be argumentative.... but you don't really posit
any real reason why C# is better than VB.

 

[sloan]

My two sides of the coin are:

If you have a asp/vb6 background..then

Side 1 : You'll be more used to using the "dim x" syntax. You'll get "on
board" slightly quicker.


Side 2 : You'll be more likely to bring bad habits with you, most of which
resolve around non OO practices.
Creating a billiion concrete classes is not OO development.
And asp.net is NOT an upgrade or extension of asp. Accept that truth
early, and you'll get on board faster.



Here is an article to look at:
http://www.cmswire.com/cms/featured-articles/not-another-c-versus-vb-article-000591.php

Its your choice ultimately.

The last small tid-bit thing is.... google searches.
When you search for C# tidbit and syntax, you'll only have to filter through
1.1 vs 2.0 stuff for the most part (ok, maybe 3.0 and 3.5, but 3.0 and 3.5
are more extensions of 2.0). which isn't that hard.
When you do a syntax search for vb/vb.net, you'll have to wade through 10+
years of vb snipplets (non vb.net stuff) to find the vb.net stuff you're
looking for.
To put it another way, it is (IMHO) easier to find what you're looking for
when faced with an issue...googling C# syntax.
Heck, sometimes ...4-5 years ago when I did vb.net, the only way I could
find .Net specific stuff was to artificially translate my snipplet into
C#...to avoid that "google overload syndrome"........

Last advice:
If you're ever interested in anything like WCF....or similar (more 3.0 and
3.5 stuff), then most (not all but most) examples are in C#.
And you will save time...because you don't constantly have to artificially
translate the syntax every single time you find a great C# snipplet.
This was finally the thing that I said "Ok, c# it is", because I got tired
of translating samples into vb.net just for the sake of translating samples
into c#.

And after I used c# for 2 months......it was over. The language feels
"cleaner" to me. (Which I would say you can figure out why alot of people
feel this way from the article above "not another".

The article above isn't perfect, but I like the historical aspect of it.


Good luck with your decision.

 

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

I mean, I'm not trying to be argumentative....

OK.

 

[CMoya]

My two sides of the coin are:

If you have a asp/vb6 background..then

Side 1 : You'll be more used to using the "dim x" syntax. You'll get "on
board" slightly quicker.


Side 2 : You'll be more likely to bring bad habits with you, most of
which
resolve around non OO practices.
Creating a billiion concrete classes is not OO development.
And asp.net is NOT an upgrade or extension of asp. Accept that truth
early, and you'll get on board faster.



Here is an article to look at:
http://www.cmswire.com/cms/featured-articles/not-another-c-versus-vb-article-000591.php

Its your choice ultimately.

The last small tid-bit thing is.... google searches.
When you search for C# tidbit and syntax, you'll only have to filter
through
1.1 vs 2.0 stuff for the most part (ok, maybe 3.0 and 3.5, but 3.0 and 3.5
are more extensions of 2.0). which isn't that hard.
When you do a syntax search for vb/vb.net, you'll have to wade through 10+
years of vb snipplets (non vb.net stuff) to find the vb.net stuff you're
looking for.
To put it another way, it is (IMHO) easier to find what you're looking for
when faced with an issue...googling C# syntax.
Heck, sometimes ...4-5 years ago when I did vb.net, the only way I could
find .Net specific stuff was to artificially translate my snipplet into
C#...to avoid that "google overload syndrome"........

Now this is certainly true. And I agree. It's a good point. Although
sometimes all that old VB classic knowledge base on the web comes in handy
too..... especially when you find that the .NET framework doesn't do
something you want and you need to use Win32 API's via p/invoke. Lots of old
good stuff there.... no C# examples.

Last advice:
If you're ever interested in anything like WCF....or similar (more 3.0 and
3.5 stuff), then most (not all but most) examples are in C#.
And you will save time...because you don't constantly have to artificially
translate the syntax every single time you find a great C# snipplet.
This was finally the thing that I said "Ok, c# it is", because I got tired
of translating samples into vb.net just for the sake of translating
samples
into c#.

And after I used c# for 2 months......it was over. The language feels
"cleaner" to me. (Which I would say you can figure out why alot of people
feel this way from the article above "not another".

I agree here too. C# is definately aesthetically cleaner than VB. It's not
always easier to read, but it is sparse ... while VB is verbose. I hate
having to type CType or DirectCast instead of C's beautiful casting way. But
even here too when I'm reading discussions on this topic (I lurk a lot), C#
folks' ignorance rears its ugly head... when, for instance, they call VB's
casting "function calls" (they're not... the compiler treats them as inline
casts... just like C#..... we just have to type a little more to do it.

 

[M. Ali Qureshi]

I mean, I'm not trying to be argumentative.... but you don't really posit

any real reason why C# is better than VB.

Good point.

I would suggest you begin with C#, for no other reason that it will force
you to think in an object-orientated .NET way and prevent you from
carrying over any of the VBScript baggage...

How is VB any less object-oriented than C#? Inheritance? Check.
Interfaces? Check. Namespaces? Check.
And what exactly is VBScript baggage and how is it different than JScript
baggage?

I mean, I'm not trying to be argumentative.... but you don't really posit
any real reason why C# is better than VB.

 

[M. Ali Qureshi]

I would suggest you begin with C#, for no other reason that it will force

you to think in an object-orientated .NET way and prevent you from
carrying over any of the VBScript baggage...

I think this point has alot of weight. I do still think about "how i would
have solved a perticular issue in classic ASP"

Why i even touched this "heated topic" here is because i just wanted to know
what is "best". During my learning also i've been trying to stick with
"best-practices". using n-tier application structure etc...

But i must say, VB.NET and C# is not a "choice" one can make. One way or
another, in the end i'll actualy be having my hands on both.

Thank you everyone for very helpful input. I've learnt alot from this
discussion.

 

[cfps.Christian]

Side 2 : You'll be more likely to bring bad habits with you, most of which

resolve around non OO practices.

This is probably the best argument against VB. Nothing was worse than
working with a bunch of programmers that went from VB6 to .NET with no
learning at all. Every single horrible thing they could do in VB6 (it
was bad then too) went directly over to .NET. When you force yourself
to learn a new language you can to wield it the correct way from the
beginning dumping those bad habits from the beginning rather than
"knowing" how you can do something and it be bad. This is even more
true with VB since they carried over the functions from older versions
into .NET (i.e. LTrim() Mid() cInt) whereas the .NET way is
different. The advantage to going to C# and having a VBScript
background is you should be able to read/write VB.NET fairly from
knowing C# and VBScript while it doesn't work as well the other way
(only VB with no C# learning).