evaluating posts with stars

[Twisted]

[various childishness and churlishness deleted, including the
apparently obligatory misattribution]

Now who's misattributing? You told me to leave, and I said I would stay.
How do you get a threat to continue flaming you from that?

Simple: almost 100% of your posts to comp.lang.java.programmer are
flaming me, therefore it's reasonable to guess that a large proportion
of any future posts by you to this group will likewise be flaming me,
and thus that any threat you make to continue posting here is
tantamount to a threat to continue flaming me. And besides, by posting
this latest off-topic turd to cljp you've proven my point by example;
you made good on the very threat you are denying having made, even
while denying having made it!

Now buzz off.

 

[Joshua Cranmer]

No, he didn't. I did. Quit mixing me up with that guy.

Just out of curiosity, I googled "Paul Derbyshire" and looked at the
first hit...

It was about fractals and mentioned that fractal lovers should visit
sci.fractals. Since the Twisted in this forum obviously knows detailed
topics in mathematics (yes, that is a complement), I decided to
investigate further.

Second page was the index of the aforementioned site.
Newest news items: addition of Java pages. Other news items mentioned
pokes at Windows....
Self-description: "in Quake circles they call me Twisted"
"I am currently working on my B.Math in Computer Mathematics at
Carleton University" ... yep, definitely accounts for the knowledge of
mathematics evident in previous posts.

Site contents: [...]
# Microsoft Rants and Crash Anecdotes
[ ... ]
# Poking fun at the software inductry


Definitely seems like the Twisted I know.

Googling for (e-mail address removed) and fractal revealed a post talking
about the semantics of a fractal-generation program; changing the second
word to quake indicates that you have a certain fondness for mentioning
Quake in comparison with software.

None of this information is authoritative, but the coincidences are a
high enough to warrant an investigation. I'd give the probability at
50-50 that Paul Derbyshire is your real name, but I see no point in
trying to figure out for sure. I respect your opinion that if someone
wants to use a pseudonym, they should be able to. Irrespective of my
beliefs, I will continue to call you "Twisted" in this forum unless you
indicate a different desire...

Just out of curiosity, what are your opinions on the similarity between
StarCraft and Aliens?

 

[Twisted]

[further speculation about my real-world identity, this seemingly
fairly benign rather than hostile, snipped]

Any resemblance between that guy and me is purely coincidental,
although it seems there are some resemblances, which is rather
curious. Then again, I doubt Hunter Gratzner's guess was *completely*
random so perhaps it is unsurprising his guess was some guy he knew
that bears a passing similarity to me...

Just out of curiosity, what are your opinions on the similarity between
StarCraft and Aliens?

I'm not really familiar with StarCraft, sorry. (Was that the old
Genesis game that involved a lot of mining minerals and finding relics
and blowing up alien ships? I remember the comic tendency of the ship
to "orbit" planets with its engines visibly on, yet not consuming
fuel...the thing was clearly heavily influenced by Star Trek TNG, even
unto featuring a borg-like enemy with an unpronounceable name ...
Uhlik, or something similar to that. Landing party used a rover that
was susceptible to all kinds of hostile wildlife and bad weather as I
recall. Anyway this game, which very well may not be the same one
you're thinking of, resembled Star Trek far more than it did Aliens.
Right down to the authors' questionable grasp of the laws of physics.)

 

[Joe Attardi]

Just out of curiosity, I googled "Paul Derbyshire" and looked at the
first hit...

There are also a few messages in the OpenOffice.org mailing list archive
from Paul Derbyshire, with a Reply-To header of (e-mail address removed).

Paul thinks I somehow falsified these archived messages, but he gives me
too much credit.

 

[Joe Attardi]

Nonetheless, it is so. What else would you call what is, in effect, a
blanket declaration that "nobody from this entire domain is worth my
time"? It's not a specific person that you have a problem with. It's,
in your mind, everyone at an entire site.

For what it's worth, though, most of the spam postings I've seen in this
and other newsgroups do seem to be posted through Google Groups. That
alone is justification enough to block the entire domain. Car air
conditioners, Make Money Online, etc.

as what ISP they use or their skin's shade of brown is
pretty much bigotry *by definition*.

You're comparing blocking Google Groups to being racist? Wow. That's a
stretch.

Stop arguing with me!

What a ridiculous thing to say.

 

[Lew]

There are also a few messages in the OpenOffice.org mailing list archive
from Paul Derbyshire, with a Reply-To header of (e-mail address removed).

Paul thinks I somehow falsified these archived messages, but he gives me
too much credit.

I don't see how he could actually think that, no matter how much he asserts it
for public consumption.

 

[Joe Attardi]

I don't see how he could actually think that, no matter how much he
asserts it for public consumption.

Good point. I should say, Paul wants people to believe that I somehow
falsified these archived messages.

 

[Twisted]

[snip bullshit and attempted privacy invasion]

Go **** yourself.

 

[Twisted]

For what it's worth, though, most of the spam postings I've seen in this
and other newsgroups do seem to be posted through Google Groups. That
alone is justification enough to block the entire domain. Car air
conditioners, Make Money Online, etc.

Keep in mind that spammers often forge message headers.

There's also the niggling little matter that tens of thousands of
legitimate users use GG; most have no real choice for various reasons
that have already been discussed to death around here.

Blocking all of them out means blocking a lot of signal even while
possibly blocking a lot of noise.

You're comparing blocking Google Groups to being racist? Wow. That's a
stretch.

No, I'm demonstrating that Lew is either wrong or disputing the very
dictionary definition of "bigotry", which amounts to any tarring with
one brush of any large group as defined by something irrelevant. So
"All criminals are crooks" is not bigotry (the group is defined by
something relevant) but "All GG users are a waste of time" clearly is
(being a GG user is orthogonal to being a waste of time).

What a ridiculous thing to say.

It is not. He's wrong, he's obviously wrong, and still he keeps
arguing!

 

[Twisted]

I don't see how he could actually think that, no matter how much he asserts it
for public consumption.

How I can think that is simple: There is no other logical explanation
for my email address appearing on posts apparently written by somebody
else. The posts are therefore forgeries.

 

[Twisted]

[snip a load of BS]

Leave me alone.
**** off.
Go to hell.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

Twisted wrote:
...

There's also the niggling little matter that tens of thousands of
legitimate users use GG; most have no real choice

*rubbish* As has been communicated to *you* before,
GG users may not be able to choose a desk-top news
client, but GG is not the only *WITUN* on this WWW.

Further, most of the claims against GG have been in
relation to Spam. These claims are well justified, and
Google apparently has *no* intention of doing anything
about it..
<http://groups.google.com/group/Groups-Suggestions/browse_frm/thread/2a5e4a9399cb8be7/
#>

As far as 'blocking all GG users' goes, I would not
blame anyone for doing that, it would save them from
a lot of spam. It would also block them from seeing
the initial posts of other non-spamming GG users, but..
tough luck to the GG users - it is their *choice* to use
*GG*,

Ultimately, you are reacting as if "GG users have a
right to be heard!" when in reality nobody around here
has any *guarantees* of being heard, or helped, by
anyone else.

Either grow up & accept some people won't listen to you,
or get yourself a WITUN that is not the source of 90%+ of
spam to these usenet newsgroups, or both.. but *please*
stop whining about it as though it were a matter of civil rights.

...for various reasons
that have already been discussed to death around here.

You have a bad habit of "discussing to death" matters
but not listening to reasoned reply. Let's see if I have any
more success at getting the point across, this time.

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200708/1

 

[Lew]

Twisted wrote:
...

*rubbish* As has been communicated to *you* before,
GG users may not be able to choose a desk-top news
client, but GG is not the only *WITUN* on this WWW.

Further, most of the claims against GG have been in
relation to Spam. These claims are well justified, and
Google apparently has *no* intention of doing anything
about it..
<http://groups.google.com/group/Groups-Suggestions/browse_frm/thread/2a5e4a9399cb8be7/
#>

As far as 'blocking all GG users' goes, I would not
blame anyone for doing that, it would save them from
a lot of spam. It would also block them from seeing
the initial posts of other non-spamming GG users, but..
tough luck to the GG users - it is their *choice* to use
*GG*,

Ultimately, you are reacting as if "GG users have a
right to be heard!" when in reality nobody around here
has any *guarantees* of being heard, or helped, by
anyone else.

Either grow up & accept some people won't listen to you,
or get yourself a WITUN that is not the source of 90%+ of
spam to these usenet newsgroups, or both.. but *please*
stop whining about it as though it were a matter of civil rights.

Extremely well presented, and resonates with the logic I presented. There is
no "right to use Google Groups" in any nation's charter. There is no "right
to tyrannically force people to read posts from GG" in any nation's charter.
It's not one of the essential human rights; /au contraire/ it's fascism to
force people to accept GG posts; in fact, it would tend to promote a state
monopoly if we were all forced to hear what GGers say. Why should Google hold
special anticompetitive status over its WITUN and other competitors, free and
for pay?

That would be communism.

 

[Twisted]

[snip a whole lot of blather]

This is getting ludicrous. I never claimed you were breaking any laws
or ought to be shot. I just claimed that blanket judgments of large
groups of random people on the basis of accidental things like ISP,
geography, or skin color inevitably indicate a bigoted frame of mind.
That is true almost by definition!

 

[kaldrenon]

[snip a whole lot of blather]

This is getting ludicrous. I never claimed you were breaking any laws
or ought to be shot. I just claimed that blanket judgments of large
groups of random people on the basis of accidental things like ISP,
geography, or skin color inevitably indicate a bigoted frame of mind.
That is true almost by definition!

You want to know what else is true almost by definition? A large
number of users on a free, easily accessed web portal to a mass
communication medium are going to use it for advertising,
profiteering, and spam. By consequence, a large number of the other
users on that system will be irritated by spammers. They have the
right, upon weighing the deluge of crud against the percentage of
valid information coming from that source, to turn off that source.

No one here has ever said that they consider all GGers spammers. Only
that the spam is bad enough that they consider it worth the sacrifice.

And I agree with those who have said that equating the significance of
ISP and skin color is patently ridiculous. I highly recommend you
present your case at an NAACP meeting instead of here. I'm bracing
myself for Godwin's Law to be proven here soon.

 

[Bent C Dalager]

I'm bracing
myself for Godwin's Law to be proven here soon.

You, sir, breathe air, just as Hitler did before you!

(Unfortunately, purposedly using Godwin in an attempt to end a
discussion is frowned upon at best, so you may actually be
Godwin-proofing the thread . . .)

Yours Jestfully,
Bent D

 

[kaldrenon]

You, sir, breathe air, just as Hitler did before you!

I also didn't go to art school.

(Unfortunately, purposedly using Godwin in an attempt to end a
discussion is frowned upon at best, so you may actually be
Godwin-proofing the thread . . .)

And all the better for it.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

Twisted wrote

Hey, I often avoid getting into ..long threads with you.

I am inclined to think of you as a 'trollish' poster, and
have labelled you (publicly) as such in the past, but
something that keeps pulling me back from 'writing
you off' as 'just another troll' is that you can often come
up with quite interesing and valid technical points about
subjects directly relevant to Java programming, and OO
design.

..And at times, you also display a *wicked* funny
sense of humor. A major point in your favor, in
the eyes of this Aussie.

For those reasons, I ..bother, to 'risk' dipping back
into this thread.

...

This is getting ludicrous.

(shrugs) Maybe.. *Maybe* it was never anything
*but* ludicrous. (I present that not as any form of
conclusion or statement, but merely something to
ponder, ..and OK, comment on and argue against,
if you feel so inclined.)

...I never claimed you were breaking any laws
or ought to be shot. I just claimed that blanket judgments of large
groups of random people on the basis of accidental things like ISP,
geography, or skin color inevitably indicate a bigoted frame of mind.

Umm.. OK? But.. what do *ISP*, geography or skin color
got to do with any of this?

Do you know what skin color *I* have? You can probably
make some educated guesses, based upon my name,
but can you even be sure that is actually my name?

You might well know my physical location, it has been
discussed (perhaps too much) on the group recently.

..but ISP?!

*Whatever* ISP I am using - I can post to the groups via,
either JavaKB (my usual source, at the moment) or
GG. In fact, I 'subscribe' to Google alerts for things like
'applet' that are constantly throwing up mentions of Java
related tech. on Groups that are *not* covered by JavaKB.

I pop straight over to my (existing and current) GG posting
identity and make a post from whatever internet enabled
computer I happen to be sitting in front of. At most times
even I would have no idea what ISP 'I' am using, so how
is that relevant at all?

Please confirm to me that you understand that even
people with no 'personal ISP', have alternatives to GG,
for posting to the *Java* related groups. (I almost bet
there are other ways to contribute to most of the major
hierarchy of usenet newsrgoups, but would have to go
..Googling* to prove it)

* It always does seem kind of ironic to use the the
'G' search engine to look for alternatives to ..'GG'.

That is true almost by definition!

..hmmm. Stuff that doesn't 'compile' usually takes
a *lot* more justification. ;-)

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200708/1

 

[Bent C Dalager]

I also didn't go to art school.

Aha! And no doubt you are in favour of highways and rather like the VW
Beetle as well!

Cheers
Bent D

 

[kaldrenon]

Aha! And no doubt you are in favour of highways and rather like the VW
Beetle as well!

I also eat food, know how to read, enjoy shouting loudly in German
(although I don't know much, because my high school's language program
was weak), and can die. The list of things I have in common with
Hitler is probably quite long, really.

Come to think of it, I bet if Hitler were still a live, we'd have one
more thing in common - a penchant for going OT on Usenet. =P

-Andrew