Google down?

R

Roedy Green

Google appears to be down. Anonymous wanted to protest CISPA. Did
they shut down Google as part of the protest, or is this just a local
outage?
 
L

Lew

Google appears to be down. Anonymous wanted to protest CISPA. Did
they shut down Google as part of the protest, or is this just a local
outage?

Nope.

And this is off topic.
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

Google appears to be down. Anonymous wanted to protest CISPA. Did
they shut down Google as part of the protest, or is this just a local
outage?

I think it is local - probably a radius of a few feet around your PC.

:)

Arne
 
R

Roedy Green

BTW, that is an hysterical piece of conspiracy theorizing.

I am gathering evidence from people I know, such as yourself

Google has never been down before. Since google has massive
redundancy it would be odd for it to go down.

Why must you use EVERY opportunity to be rude?
 
L

Lew

Roedy said:
Lew wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

I am gathering evidence from people I know, such as yourself

Google has never been down before. Since google has massive
redundancy it would be odd for it to go down.

And it wasn't down this time.
Why must you use EVERY opportunity to be rude?

You suggested that Anonymous was hacking Google.

That was an outrageously paranoid remark based on less than no evidence.

It was not a suggestion designed to engender respect.

Sorry, just calling it as I see it.

Don't say outrageously paranoid things based on no evidence if you don't like it.
 
J

Joshua Cranmer ðŸ§

Google has never been down before. Since google has massive
redundancy it would be odd for it to go down.

So obviously, Gmail hasn't failed once. Well, at least not since last
week. Discount that, and it hasn't failed since... March?

In my experience, "noticeable" periods of downtime for Google services
are surprisingly common.

This is also discounting the fact that there are about a dozen things
that could go wrong between you and Google transiently. The more you
learn about how the Internet works, the more surprised you become that
it hasn't all fallen to pieces yet.
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

I am gathering evidence from people I know, such as yourself

Google has never been down before.

Of course it have. Quite frequently.

Google it.

Hm. Google it when you can get to Google agian.
Since google has massive
redundancy it would be odd for it to go down.

Google is massive parallel. That does not equal massive
redundant.
Why must you use EVERY opportunity to be rude?

You did come up with a conspiracy theory.

Without any evidence or indications at all.

It is not that far fetched to call that hysterical.

Arne
 
Z

znôrt

Joshua Cranmer 🧠said:
a dozen things that could go wrong between you and Google
transiently. The more you learn about how the Internet works, the more
surprised you become that it hasn't all fallen to pieces yet.

that's by design. it's supposed to be a reliable network built upon
unreliable parts. the real threat to internet doesn't reside in the
architecture or the transport layer, it's in society not being up to
defend its neutrality and loosing it to merchants, and control
freaks. this is indeed already starting to happen.

oh, and internet is not google. not yet.
 
J

Jan Burse

Arne said:
Google is massive parallel. That does not equal massive
redundant.

Google search can refetch data from the websites
it indexes at any time, so I guess it is less
redundant.

But I guess the other services are implemented
with some redundancy, i.e. database replication
etc.. Probably using:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanner_(database)
"It uses the Paxos algorithm as
part of its operation."

Bye
 
J

Joshua Cranmer ðŸ§

that's by design. it's supposed to be a reliable network built upon
unreliable parts

Ha ha ha.

A brief list of major networking issues:
1. Traffic in the internet core is routed pretty much by "hot
potato"--give it to somebody else as fast as possible.
2. The routing algorithms we use (in BGP) are not guaranteed to have a
nice fixed point solution.
3. To route packets at current speeds, you can do about 2 memory lookups
to figure out how to route a packet based on an arbitrary IP address prefix.
4. We ran out of IPv4 address space, and we're still not IPv6-compatible
everywhere. Solution? Put entire ISPs under a single NAT...
5. TCP has congestion control mechanisms, but these can cause
problematic jank in streaming video. So every streaming video defines
its own variant protocol without congestion control. (Netflix is one of
the biggest threats to the Internet!)
6. Underlying control mechanisms on the Internet are not authenticated
in any way. This allows, for example, Pakistan to accidentally kill
worldwide access to Youtube.

Reliability was one of the secondary goals of TCP, but it was not the
primary goal. But TCP is not the internet; many of the most vital
components of the Internet explicitly eschew TCP.

I reiterate, the more you know about how the Internet works--about all
of the jumbled lottery of protocol acronyms--the more surprised you are
that it works at all. This is a belief that has been explicitly stated
to me by several professional network researchers.
 
G

Gene Wirchenko

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 20:22:24 -0500, Joshua Cranmer ?

[snip]
This is also discounting the fact that there are about a dozen things
that could go wrong between you and Google transiently. The more you
learn about how the Internet works, the more surprised you become that
it hasn't all fallen to pieces yet.

Agreed in spades.

I have a Bachelor of Computing Science degree with a
concentration in computer networking. That means that I can
definitely appreciate the situation in general, but that I do not know
very much fine detail.

Just under a hour ago, I just finally cleaned up an issue that I
had for about two weeks with one E-mail list that I subscribe to. For
some reason, I was unable to post to it. My E-mail otherwise worked
just fine. The issue *might* have been related to a problem with my
ISP having SSL certs expire just before then. Or maybe not.
Unfortunately, I do not know what it was that finally did it and got
me back on the list.

Chewing gum and baling wire.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

Ha ha ha.

A brief list of major networking issues:
1. Traffic in the internet core is routed pretty much by "hot
potato"--give it to somebody else as fast as possible.
2. The routing algorithms we use (in BGP) are not guaranteed to have a
nice fixed point solution.
3. To route packets at current speeds, you can do about 2 memory lookups
to figure out how to route a packet based on an arbitrary IP address
prefix.
4. We ran out of IPv4 address space, and we're still not IPv6-compatible
everywhere. Solution? Put entire ISPs under a single NAT...
5. TCP has congestion control mechanisms, but these can cause
problematic jank in streaming video. So every streaming video defines
its own variant protocol without congestion control. (Netflix is one of
the biggest threats to the Internet!)
6. Underlying control mechanisms on the Internet are not authenticated
in any way. This allows, for example, Pakistan to accidentally kill
worldwide access to Youtube.

Reliability was one of the secondary goals of TCP, but it was not the
primary goal. But TCP is not the internet; many of the most vital
components of the Internet explicitly eschew TCP.

I reiterate, the more you know about how the Internet works--about all
of the jumbled lottery of protocol acronyms--the more surprised you are
that it works at all. This is a belief that has been explicitly stated
to me by several professional network researchers.

I am not so surprised.

The internet is not a well designed solution.

It is not really designed at all. It is more like random permutations
and survival of the fittest.

The result of such an evolution may be a bit chaotic, unstructured
and confusing.

And you may wonder how the heck did it ever work at all.

But each part has only survived because it fills a requirement and
have no flaws that are fatal in practice.

Would it have been possible to design a set of protocols
that would have been more robust/safe and more elegant.

Theoretical yes.

In practice I doubt it.

The big designs typical end up with big flaws.

Arne
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

Google search can refetch data from the websites
it indexes at any time, so I guess it is less
redundant.

But I guess the other services are implemented
with some redundancy, i.e. database replication
etc..

I am sure that most of Google stuff are replicated, so it
is redundant. But I am note sure that it is massive
redundant. It is not business critical for Google.
Probably using:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanner_(database)
"It uses the Paxos algorithm as
part of its operation."

That stuff is used for Googles advertising and that
is what generates most of Google revenue, so it is
business critical and it may very likely be massive redundant.

Arne
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

What are you blathering about now for goodness sake

If you go back in the thread you will find the topic
under discussion.

#Google appears to be down. Anonymous wanted to protest CISPA. Did
#they shut down Google as part of the protest, or is this just a local

May I suggest that you read the thread if you are confused about
what the topic really is about.
Someone asked a perfectly reasonable question,

No.

Someone posted an off topic and conspiracy theorizing question.

This is comp.lang.java.programmer not
comp.speculate-on-whether-a-website-has-attacked-and-by-whom-and-why.
Bloch local replied with
his customary rudeness and ignorance and here you are deciding what is
and is not acceptable in c.l.j.p ...

"The pot calling the kettle black".

Arne
 

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