J'accuse

F

Flash Gordon

Seebs said:
That would, indeed, violate the terms of the GNU license.

Only one of them, the GNU Public License, under which that library
happens to be released. Other GNU software is licensed under the GNU
Lesser Public License, and that you cn link against and then sell your
software whilst keeping it closed source. Almost every company selling
software for Linux is doing this (including mine) since the standard C
library on Linux has this license!

... BTW, commercial companies do indeed give away source code in many
cases. It turns out, the source code is not the essence of the value
in the product.

Yes indeed. In fact, some of the software my company sells is written in
scripting languages, so whenever we sell that software we are selling a
copy of the source!
 
R

Richard Bos

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:21:11 -0700 (PDT), spinoza1111


I think that I can say without contradiction that you and
Heathfield are not in the same league.

I'll gladly contradict that.

Richard
 
S

spinoza1111

[snips]

This person (Bjarnason) is a known linux activist.

That's nice.  You said you give your software away for free, yet you
failed to provide the link to said software.  So, again, where is the
link to the free compiler - free for all purposes, as you didn't limit
the scope.  Or were you simply lying?

If your compiler is so bad you have to lie to get people to use it, it
can't really be worth even the cost of the download, now can it?

Huh? I got the compiler at http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32/ with
no problem. I typed in lccwin in the Google search bar. At
http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32/ I clicked the first blue link
and was taken to a download site immediately. I clicked the first link
and got the Windows download screen. I downloaded and started using
the compiler.

To call Navia a liar is civil and possibly criminal libel, especially
but not only in the UK. If Navia pays only my expenses (coach from
Hong Kong to London or Paris, one star hotel) I will sit in a UK or
French court, and, using my netbook and my cell phone projector, I
will demonstrate that in calling him a liar, you're a liar and you
libel him.
 
S

spinoza1111

[snips]

Kelsey, I think you're overreacting here.
lcc-win32, according to its web page, is free for noncommercial use,
non-free for commercial use (that may be an oversimplification).

I'm well aware of that.
jacob's
statement above that "I manage to give my software for free" is
consistent with that.  He *does* give his software for free (i.e., at no
monetary charge).  He *also* sells it for money.

As I see it, there are three possible options:

1) It is free - period - in which case he's not a slimeball, spamming
scuzzball, but a decent sort of chap.

2) It is not free, but he only brings it up in proper advertising venues,
making him simply a businessman.

3) He uses CLC as a marketing medium, trying to pretend to be the good
guy ("See?  I give it away free!") while, in fact, being a scum-of-the-
earth spamming asshole.

Wow. Jacob, I'll pay for my hotel room if the trial in in Paris. I
love Paris. It'd be worth it to nail this asshole.
As far as I can tell, he's quite firmly and happily planted in category
3... making his "I give my software away free" at *best* a completely
disingenuous attempt to portray himself as something other than the scum
he really is.

Screw it. Air France still has good deals, and their food is edible. I
love Paris. If you want to take this man to court, I will come to
Paris, like Henri IV.
On the contrary.  As I believe I noted elsewhere, if the compiler were
worth having, legitimate marketing would suffice.  The fact he cannot use
legitimate marketing and must resort to spam, to lies, to deception and
dishonesty, is sufficient to conclude that the compiler *cannot* be good
enough to make it without such tactics - i.e. is a worthless piece of
crap.

Paris is well worth a Mass, and Paris would be well worth nailing this
ass.
 
S

spinoza1111

[snips]

I think a fair comparison is in order. What's the download link for the
Kelsey Bjarnason compiler?

I don't recall saying I had one, and I don't recall marketing compilers
*ever* being topical in CLC.  

(1) Navia is not "marketing compilers". He writes scientific prose in
which he describes work he's performed which you can't.

(2) Marketing language would be preferable to the adolescent attacks I
see here.
 
J

jacob navia

Kelsey Bjarnason a écrit :
3) He uses CLC as a marketing medium, trying to pretend to be the good
guy ("See? I give it away free!") while, in fact, being a scum-of-the-
earth spamming asshole.
Mr Kelsey Bjarnasson had a business about porting applications from
windows to linux. This explains his virulence and insults.

Happily linux hasn't the dominant position of Microsoft Corp.

What would happen if this kind of people were in the dominant position?

They would be much worse than Microsoft!
 
S

spinoza1111

as technical people we like to be precise in the language we use.
I f you want to waffle go and be socialogist, oh wait...

Where you are precise, you are too often precisely wrong. Truth isn't
always precise, and precision isn't always the truth.

Elsewhere you create confusion which is nearly the opposite of
precision, especially when you're trying to destroy someone. A good
example is approximately one half the discussion here about the stack,
in which people who fancy themselves "precise" have completely
confused the issue of the stack by trying to "demonstrate" that Herb
was wrong.

Had these people known computer science, they would have known from
the Turing machine alone that the stack isn't fundamental, and from
formal language theory that it's terribly important. Instead, mere
programmers who fancy themselves scientists have presented absurd
counter-examples which prove nothing about Seebach's false charges.
He could avoid these arguments by saying "lcc-win32 is free for
non-commercial use"

That's what he said. But as in the case of Schildt, you are "trashing"
him.

The practice of "trashing" a person dates from certain feminist covens
and religious cults of the 1970s, and from "struggle sessions" in the
Chinese cultural revolution. For its origins in "acid fascism" of the
1970s, cf
http://www.amazon.com/Mindfuckers-F...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252842643&sr=8-1,
while Jung Chang's Wild Swans and biography of Mao describes practises
in the Cultural Revolution.

Prior to the 1970s and 1960s, "trashing" also has sources in
McCarthyism and the Stalinist "show trials" of the 1930s.

In "trashing", the group turns upon a person (Sandy Bull, the musician
and member of the Mel Lyman family, Jung Chang's parents, the
Rosenbergs, the Old Bolshevists) and accuses them of responsibility
for group failings: the failure of the commune's crops, the theft of
the atom bomb, the failure of Mao's or Stalin's Five Year Plans, the
latter day mess that is the C programming language...

In "trashing", as opposed to procedure in a court of law in a society
under rule of law, the testimony given by the victim is admissable as
physical evidence of guilt. Note that in a decent courtroom, the
attention of the jury is directed by the judge to the facts, the law,
and the crime as charged, and it is the jury's duty to ignore the
accused's testimony, in most cases, when it seems to be evidence of
guilt, unless the accused changes his plea. This right, which is
withheld in "trashing", appears in the US Bill of Rights as "nor shall
be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself".
But Navia's words are forever here being used against him!

In "trashing", sticking up for the victim becomes transitively risky
for in an effort to rid itself of guilt, the community reasons that
anyone who defends the victim must be a perpetrator.

"Trashing" is legal regression which is used by Fascists to secure
their power.
 
J

jacob navia

Kelsey Bjarnason a écrit :
[snips]

Kelsey Bjarnason a écrit :
Mr Kelsey Bjarnasson had a business about porting applications from
windows to linux.

No, he didn't. Not once, not at any point in his life, nor had he - or
has he - any intent to have such a business.

Any *more* lies you'd like to spew?

Your sig maybe?

This confirms what I am saying:

http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t313994-ease-of-use.html

Look at your sig at the end of the post. Remember now?
 
C

cognacc

Your sig maybe?

This confirms what I am saying:

http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t313994-ease-of-use.html

Look at your sig at the end of the post. Remember now?

Maybe it's services, like mailsystems, collabarative calendars,
backup and so on.
Meaning he moves the services to unix based systems, but doesnt port
anything.

outlook exchange -> zimbra/evolution
doc(Word) -> odt(Openoffice)
print services ?
sourcesafe -> git/svn
Visio -> dia (urghh)

??

ps isnt it odd that there is no good modern network diagramming open
source software
of hight qaulity ?.
xfig still rules there. (i looked for ages)


mic
 
B

bartc

Richard Bos said:
That may make it your copyright, but it doesn't make it your work.


No, but you do make a point of never mentioning them until called on
your dishonesty.

Unless he recounts the full history of lccwin32 on every mention, he either
mentions only the product name (then being accused of not disclosing his
connection with the product), or says that is his product (and then is
accused of ripping off someone else's work).

JN simply can't win!

The lccwin32 website tells the potential downloader everything they need to
know. That seems fair enough to me. The site doesn't ask for money up-front
and doesn't just supply a 30-day time-limited trial version, so is not
particularly commercial. He doesn't even give the website address as part
his signature block on most of his postings I've seen.

Some posters however do have signature blocks that include websites for
fully commercial products. That, apparently, is allowed. All that's needed
then to allow any advertisement is to precede it with "-- ".
 
K

Keith Thompson

bartc said:
Unless he recounts the full history of lccwin32 on every mention, he
either mentions only the product name (then being accused of not
disclosing his connection with the product), or says that is his
product (and then is accused of ripping off someone else's work).

JN simply can't win!

He is rarely, if ever, accused of "ripping off" someone else's work,
and any such accusations are, to the best of my knowledge, incorrect.
But when he claims that lcc-win is entirely his own work, he is
generally called on it.

[...]
 
F

Flash Gordon

bartc said:
Unless he recounts the full history of lccwin32 on every mention, he
either mentions only the product name (then being accused of not
disclosing his connection with the product), or says that is his product
(and then is accused of ripping off someone else's work).

JN simply can't win!

When Jacob advises people to use his compiler and its extensions without
stating that it is his he gets complaints for not making his connection
clear. This does *not* mean that he needs for posts like that to say
that it is derived from the original lcc. That is one type of post and
issue he gets complaints for.

When he claims it is free when a lot of us here would have to pay for a
license to use it (and I'm sure some times when people have asked for
compilers for use in businesses who would therefor have to pay), that is
misleading and he gets called on it. If he simple said "free for
non-comercial use" rather than just free there would be no complaint.

On other completely unrelated posts he has frequently claimed it is all
his own work, these posts normally being nothing to do with advising
someone to use it. Obviously he gets called on that. However, this is
not to do with posts where he suggests using it.
The lccwin32 website tells the potential downloader everything they need
to know. That seems fair enough to me. The site doesn't ask for money
up-front and doesn't just supply a 30-day time-limited trial version, so
is not particularly commercial.

Plenty of companies make money like that. You can download a full copy
of Oracle for free, and there are no restrictions on it apart from words
in the license agreement! Are you claiming that Oracle is not
particularly commercial?
He doesn't even give the website address
as part his signature block on most of his postings I've seen.

That is one of the things sig blocks are actually there for! There would
be no complaint about him putting something along the following lines in
his sig block...

Visit http://whereever/ to download lcc-win32,
free for non-commercial use.

Or alternatively
Jacob Navia
Whatever Company Name
http://whatever/
lcc-win32 available, free for non-commercial use

It even fits in to 4 lines!
Some posters however do have signature blocks that include websites for
fully commercial products. That, apparently, is allowed. All that's
needed then to allow any advertisement is to precede it with "-- ".

A sig block is very different from the body of the post. I would even
consider it implicit that if you include a URL in your sig block that
you may well have a connection to the site thus advertised.
 
K

Kenny McCormack

Kelsey Bjarnason a écrit :
Mr Kelsey Bjarnasson had a business about porting applications from
windows to linux. This explains his virulence and insults.

Mr Kelsey Bjarnasson is certifiably nuts.

I really don't think anything else needs to be said.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
473,777
Messages
2,569,604
Members
45,233
Latest member
AlyssaCrai

Latest Threads

Top