K&R analog

[Jeff R. Edgarson]

Hi guys

Looking for some book suggestions.

For C, it's K&R2.

For C++, it's Stroustrup, "C++ Prog Lang"

For Java, it's... what??

There seem to be heaps of low-level dummy-type books aimed at college
kids, but what's a serious Java introduction-cum-reference for an
experienced programmer?

Cheers.

 

[Nelu]

Hi guys

Looking for some book suggestions.

For C, it's K&R2.

For C++, it's Stroustrup, "C++ Prog Lang"

For Java, it's... what??

You should probably ask in comp.lang.java.programmer.

 

[Keith Thompson]

Looking for some book suggestions.

For C, it's K&R2.

For C++, it's Stroustrup, "C++ Prog Lang"

For Java, it's... what??

Why ask about Java books in a C newsgroup? Try one of the Java
newsgroups.

 

[Jeff R. Edgarson]

Hi Nelu

I don't think many people in comp.lang.java.programmer would be familiar
with K&R - its style and what it represents. I'm not just looking for any
old Java book, but the nearest equivalent to K&R. I'm guessing that people
who are familiar with K&R would know it if they saw it.

Cheers.

 

[Nelu]

(corrected quoting)
Hi Nelu

I don't think many people in comp.lang.java.programmer would be familiar
with K&R - its style and what it represents. I'm not just looking for
any old Java book, but the nearest equivalent to K&R. I'm guessing that
people who are familiar with K&R would know it if they saw it.

You're not nice to the guys in comp.lang.java.programmer . Why do you
think that they know any less about K&R than people in comp.lang.c know
about something equivalent in JAVA?

You may also have chances of getting good answers from comp.programming.

I think that JLS and JAVA API are a good equivalent for K&R.

Some people like Head First JAVA. Actually maybe this is better for an
introduction and then you can switch to JLS and J API for more
information and you can also use them as a reference.

However, you should ask in other groups as well. You may be able to get
better answers.

 

[Kaz Kylheku]

Hi Nelu

I don't think many people in comp.lang.java.programmer would be familiar
with K&R - its style and what it represents.

Guy Steele wrote the Lisp equivalents of K&R1 and K&R2, namely cltl1 (base
document for standard, like K&R1) and cltl2 (slightly incompatible
post-standard item, like K&R2) where cltl == Common Lisp, The Language.

Steele also co-autored _The Java Language Specification_ along with Bill Joy
and James Gosling. That would be it.

 

[user923005]

Hi Nelu

I don't think many people in comp.lang.java.programmer would be familiar
with K&R - its style and what it represents. I'm not just looking for any
old Java book, but the nearest equivalent to K&R. I'm guessing that people
who are familiar with K&R would know it if they saw it.

It's not possible to teach a language as complex as Java in the same
space as a language as tiny as C.
I read your question as:
"I have read the document on how to build a bicycle. Can you show me
the corresponding document for how to build the Space Shuttle?"

I suggest reading this:
http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/download/langspec-3.0.pdf
which is a fair start, but 684 pages compared to 272 for K&R2 and it
does not even _begin_ to cover the true extent of the Java language.
For instance, JDBC is not even *mentioned* in this document (no, I'm
not kidding).
If you examine all the documents mentioned in the introduction to this
document, it will get you half way there.

 

[Richard]

It's not possible to teach a language as complex as Java in the same
space as a language as tiny as C.
I read your question as:
"I have read the document on how to build a bicycle. Can you show me
the corresponding document for how to build the Space Shuttle?"

I suggest reading this:
http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/download/langspec-3.0.pdf
which is a fair start, but 684 pages compared to 272 for K&R2 and it
does not even _begin_ to cover the true extent of the Java language.
For instance, JDBC is not even *mentioned* in this document (no, I'm
not kidding).
If you examine all the documents mentioned in the introduction to this
document, it will get you half way there.

I disagree.

its not the language that's difficult in Java. Its the heaps of exclusive
libraries.

 

[Elros]

Hi guys

Looking for some book suggestions.

For C, it's K&R2.

For C++, it's Stroustrup, "C++ Prog Lang"

For Java, it's... what??

There seem to be heaps of low-level dummy-type books aimed at college
kids, but what's a serious Java introduction-cum-reference for an
experienced programmer?

Cheers.

I thought that ``Thinking in Java'' would be just _fine_ (?)

 

[thomas.mertes]

I thought that ``Thinking in Java'' would be just _fine_ (?)

Not really. If you compare the size and compactness of
K&R2 with 'Thinking in Java' you see the difference.

IMHO unexperienced people are looking for the most
voluminous book while experts are looking for a small
compact book.

It seems to be easy to write voluminous books for
everage users and hard to write compact books for
experts. At least what is sold in bookstores looks
like that.

Greetings Thomas Mertes

Seed7 Homepage: http://seed7.sourceforge.net
Seed7 - The extensible programming language: User defined statements
and operators, abstract data types, templates without special
syntax, OO with interfaces and multiple dispatch, statically typed,
interpreted or compiled, portable, runs under linux/unix/windows.

 

[thomas.mertes]

I thought that ``Thinking in Java'' would be just _fine_ (?)

Not really. If you compare the size and compactness of
K&R2 with 'Thinking in Java' you see the difference.

IMHO unexperienced people are looking for the most
voluminous book while experts are looking for a small
compact book.

It seems to be easy to write voluminous books for [sorry - typing error] average
users and hard to write compact books for
experts. At least what is sold in bookstores looks
like that.

Greetings Thomas Mertes

Seed7 Homepage:  http://seed7.sourceforge.net
Seed7 - The extensible programming language: User defined statements
and operators, abstract data types, templates without special
syntax, OO with interfaces and multiple dispatch, statically typed,
interpreted or compiled, portable, runs under linux/unix/windows.

 

[Jeff R. Edgarson]

Thanks, guys, for the reply.

I notice that the latest (3rd) edition of The Java Language Specification
came out in 2005, so I assume it therefore refers to Java 5.

Would it be worth waiting to see if a new edition is released in the next
couple months for Java 6?

Cheers.

 

[Nelu]

Thanks, guys, for the reply.

I notice that the latest (3rd) edition of The Java Language
Specification came out in 2005, so I assume it therefore refers to Java
5.

Would it be worth waiting to see if a new edition is released in the
next couple months for Java 6?

<OT>
The link for JLS in the API docs for JAVA SE 6 leads to JLS 3. The same
API doc has a section that describes the differences between it and the
previous release. It either doesn't affect the JLS (well, I actually had
a source compatibility problem but I don't remember what it was...
probably an Override) or it's not enough to mandate a new JLS.
</OT>

But this is definitely off-topic, now. And the guys in the java groups
may be a lot more helpful.

 

[user923005]

I disagree.

its not the language that's difficult in Java. Its the heaps of exclusive
libraries.

And I do not disagree with you.

The libraries that are part of the language are part of the language.
To use Java effectively, you need to understand (for instance) Swing.
You must also understand JDBC, that whole org.* branch and awt, etc.

Similarly, for C++ we must understand templates, STL, Boost, etc.

By contrast, learning the C grammar and standard library is a good
order of magnitude easier.
That is the real beauty of C. You can learn the basics in a few
months and be an expert in a few years.

 

[Kaz Kylheku]

Thanks, guys, for the reply.

I notice that the latest (3rd) edition of The Java Language Specification
came out in 2005, so I assume it therefore refers to Java 5.

Would it be worth waiting to see if a new edition is released in the next
couple months for Java 6?

Given that you can download it for free in PDF or HTML from java.sun.com,
I don't see the point in waiting.

Note that this is no longer even remotely a valid comp.lang.c question!

But to connect it to the K&R topic: anything that is to be like K&R should be
a bit old and outdated.

Look, is there a new K&R3 being released in the next couple of months for C99?
And would that K&R be as the language specification?

The proper K&R analog isn't even the third edition, but rather some older
edition.

 

[Zach]

Hi guys

Looking for some book suggestions.

For C, it's K&R2.

For C++, it's Stroustrup, "C++ Prog Lang"

For Java, it's... what??

There seem to be heaps of low-level dummy-type books aimed at college
kids, but what's a serious Java introduction-cum-reference for an
experienced programmer?

Cheers.

Please stop posting this stuff in comp.lang.c, the topic of this
newsgroup is C not Java!

Zach