Lattice's Online Store Now Sells Silicon - No Minimum Order Quantity

[bart]

Lattice's online store now offers silicon devices. The store can be
accessed at http://www.latticesemi.com/store

The silicon store is powered by one of our distribution partners,
Mouser Electronics. The online store is particularly helpful for
customers looking for programmable logic devices that are readily
available and do not require a minimum order quantity. Customers also
can use a credit card, which makes the purchase process both quick and
convenient.

The store's shelves offer programmable logic devices, including
selected 90nm FPGAs, as well as its ispLEVER software design tool
suite, a wide variety of FPGA and CPLD development boards, and
download cables. Shipping is available worldwide, frequently on the
same day the order is received.

~Bart Borosky, Lattice

 

[Antti]

Lattice's online store now offers silicon devices. The store can be
accessed at http://www.latticesemi.com/store

The silicon store is powered by one of our distribution partners,
Mouser Electronics. The online store is particularly helpful for
customers looking for programmable logic devices that are readily
available and do not require a minimum order quantity. Customers also
can use a credit card, which makes the purchase process both quick and
convenient.

The store's shelves offer programmable logic devices, including
selected 90nm FPGAs, as well as its ispLEVER software design tool
suite, a wide variety of FPGA and CPLD development boards, and
download cables. Shipping is available worldwide, frequently on the
same day the order is received.

~Bart Borosky, Lattice

gosh,

this online store is just doing database query into mouser !

so there is no such thing as "lattice online store", it just means
that lattice is not selling anything (same as Xilinx) but instead
redirects to mouser

and whats even worse - there are NO XP2 devices, not in stock, not
orderable. And NO XP2 development boards etiher.

when lattice web says (for development kits) contact lattice sales,
then this usually measn "NOT AVAILABLE for purchasing.."

Antti
who has been waiting for XP2 since August 2006, and is still waiting...

 

[Sean Durkin]

when lattice web says (for development kits) contact lattice sales,
then this usually measn "NOT AVAILABLE for purchasing.."

Contact them anyway At least MSC told us that there are in fact
XP2-parts available right now as engineering samples. Unfortunately not
the tiny 8x8mm csBGA-package that would be the most interesting at the
moment...

Maybe Mouser doesn't stock engineering samples, and that's why they
don't have XP2 parts available.

cu,
Sean

 

[Antti]

Contact them anyway At least MSC told us that there are in fact
XP2-parts available right now as engineering samples. Unfortunately not
the tiny 8x8mm csBGA-package that would be the most interesting at the
moment...

Maybe Mouser doesn't stock engineering samples, and that's why they
don't have XP2 parts available.

cu,
Sean

ok, thanks,

yes I am sure silicon samples are available, I was more refereffing to
those
lattice evaluation kits that are "contact lattice" those are usually
not for sale,
but only to lease.. this is STUPID STUPID... i have tried to purchase
some
lattice boards, only to get offer to lease the board.

Antti

 

[Jim Granville]

yes I am sure silicon samples are available, I was more refereffing to
those
lattice evaluation kits that are "contact lattice" those are usually
not for sale,
but only to lease.. this is STUPID STUPID... i have tried to purchase
some
lattice boards, only to get offer to lease the board.

Maybe that's driven by some 3rd party SW license issue - seems a silly
idea for hardware, and it has to cost them more to admin that, than a
straight sale ?

-jg

 

[Antti]

Maybe that's driven by some 3rd party SW license issue - seems a silly
idea for hardware, and it has to cost them more to admin that, than a
straight sale ?

-jg

nono

I think they only get very little yield on first batch of silicon so
they only make maybe 20 boards
- so those are not for sale only to lease...

Antti

 

[bart]

gosh,

this online store is just doing database query into mouser !

so there is no such thing as "latticeonline store", it just means
thatlatticeis not selling anything (same as Xilinx) but instead
redirects to mouser

Antti, the major operational difference between the Xilinx and Lattice
store is that there is NO MINIMUM ORDER QUANTITY on the Lattice site.
You do not have to buy a full tube, tray, or a $XXX order minimum. On
the Lattice store, you can purchase one part if you want to.
Mouser is specialized in a very high service level for small order
quantities, and can even ship orders the same day if they have stock
of the product!
As for the LatticeXP2 not being available on the online store, the
device is currently in engineering sample mode. Thus, if you want to
get parts, you have to work with our sales team or FAEs. When the
device moves to the next phase, it will be available on Lattice store.
~bart

 

[Antti]

Antti, the major operational difference between the Xilinx and Lattice
store is that there is NO MINIMUM ORDER QUANTITY on the Lattice site.
You do not have to buy a full tube, tray, or a $XXX order minimum. On
the Lattice store, you can purchase one part if you want to.
Mouser is specialized in a very high service level for small order
quantities, and can even ship orders the same day if they have stock
of the product!
As for the LatticeXP2 not being available on the online store, the
device is currently in engineering sample mode. Thus, if you want to
get parts, you have to work with our sales team or FAEs. When the
device moves to the next phase, it will be available on Lattice store.
~bart

bart

Xilinx does use digikey, so they also have NO MINIMUM order.

I see no difference here, BOTH ARE BAD in that sense that the latest
and greatest silicon is NOT AVAILABLE.

not from Xilinx online, not from Lattice online.

Lattice could do an example here, and OFFER IMMEDIATE 1 OFF XP2
example ONLINE orders

I bet most people would instanlty order.

just 1 per customer, GIFT PACKAGED XP2 sample. One click order, no
questions, just PAY and get it.

but eh, one can always dream... I do

well, while dreaming that Xilinx/Lattice would improve their online
store to include ES silicon, guess what I am designed in? Actel PA3,
gee the QFN132 package is real nice one, glad to see XP2 includes this
package as well. To Lattice, I would have preferred XP over PA3, but
there was no tiny package available. Xilinx, same words: S3AN in
QFN132 would win many designs over MAX2,machXO,PA3,XP2... but S3AN
only has big ugly packages

Antti

 

[bart]

Xilinx does use digikey, so they also have NO MINIMUM order.

I see no difference here, BOTH ARE BAD in that sense that the latest
and greatest silicon is NOT AVAILABLE.

not from Xilinx online, not fromLatticeonline.

Latticecould do an example here, and OFFER IMMEDIATE 1 OFF XP2
example ONLINE orders

I bet most people would instanlty order.

just 1 per customer, GIFT PACKAGED XP2 sample. One click order, no
questions, just PAY and get it.

Antti,
Mouser has been a Lattice distributor for quite some time. However,
now they are fulfilling our online store. This is new for Lattice. In
theory, it should make it easier for people to order small quantities
of Lattice devices right off the Lattice website, without having to go
to another website.
In contrast, all I see on the Xilinx website is purchase through Avnet
and NuHorizons, which my understanding, requires a minimum order. Of
course you could go off on your own to the Digikey website. Then find
the right part, etc...
We are trying to make the process easier and more straightforward,
that's all.

As for getting gift packaged samples of the LatticeXP2... I don't
think Lattice will offer any gift packaging to the general public.
However, once the LatticeXP2 product is in the next phase and we begin
to offer the parts through normal distribution channels, the
LatticeXP2 devices will be available on the online store. If you need
them now, please contact a Lattice sales person. Maybe ask a
salesperson nicely, and they will put a gift wrap on it for you?

~bart

 

[rickman]

Xilinx does use digikey, so they also have NO MINIMUM order.

I see no difference here, BOTH ARE BAD in that sense that the latest
and greatest silicon is NOT AVAILABLE.

not from Xilinx online, not from Lattice online.

Lattice could do an example here, and OFFER IMMEDIATE 1 OFF XP2
example ONLINE orders

I bet most people would instanlty order.

just 1 per customer, GIFT PACKAGED XP2 sample. One click order, no
questions, just PAY and get it.

but eh, one can always dream... I do

well, while dreaming that Xilinx/Lattice would improve their online
store to include ES silicon, guess what I am designed in? Actel PA3,
gee the QFN132 package is real nice one, glad to see XP2 includes this
package as well. To Lattice, I would have preferred XP over PA3, but
there was no tiny package available. Xilinx, same words: S3AN in
QFN132 would win many designs over MAX2,machXO,PA3,XP2... but S3AN
only has big ugly packages

The reason that engineering samples are not available through online
ordering is because this is a critical phase for a manufacturer and
they want two things; one is to know who the customers are so they can
learn as much as possible about the customer and application
(including the sales potential, which is crucial and gets reported up
the food chain) and to be able to provide support, sometimes in a
proactive way. With new parts, FPGA makers prefer to give out early
engineering samples to the companies with larger potential and more
experience. The support a company can offer has a finite limit, so
they want to make sure their biggest customers are successful first,
then they can go after the smaller buyers.

You have to consider the vendor's position and give them a little
slack on early sampling. If they don't meet their goals in this early
stage, it can doom a product that may never catch up!

 

[Joerg]

The reason that engineering samples are not available through online
ordering is because this is a critical phase for a manufacturer and
they want two things; one is to know who the customers are so they can
learn as much as possible about the customer and application
(including the sales potential, which is crucial and gets reported up
the food chain) and to be able to provide support, sometimes in a
proactive way. With new parts, FPGA makers prefer to give out early
engineering samples to the companies with larger potential and more
experience. The support a company can offer has a finite limit, so
they want to make sure their biggest customers are successful first,
then they can go after the smaller buyers.

You have to consider the vendor's position and give them a little
slack on early sampling. If they don't meet their goals in this early
stage, it can doom a product that may never catch up!

That can backfire, big time. Many vendors think that only large
companies matter and fail to see that it's often the little guys like us
consultant who really call the shots. Meaning their (big) client's
engineers trust their decision and stick with it. I've had sales guys
literally beg me to reconsider but in pretty much all cases it was too
late. When the work is done a consultant cannot saddle a client with
more NRE just because a vendor shows remorse about not having supported
what they thought was "only a little guy".

A lot of companies, including nearly all European semi mfgs, don't even
know what they have missed out on so far. Never will.

 

[rickman]

That can backfire, big time. Many vendors think that only large
companies matter and fail to see that it's often the little guys like us
consultant who really call the shots. Meaning their (big) client's
engineers trust their decision and stick with it. I've had sales guys
literally beg me to reconsider but in pretty much all cases it was too
late. When the work is done a consultant cannot saddle a client with
more NRE just because a vendor shows remorse about not having supported
what they thought was "only a little guy".

A lot of companies, including nearly all European semi mfgs, don't even
know what they have missed out on so far. Never will.

And if they don't know what they have missed out on, why would you
expect them to take these missed opportunities into account??? They
can only work with the info they have.

That is why it is important for you to explain to the vendors what the
potential of a given product is. I have been in this position
before. Not only did I get samples, when I had some issues I got very
good support (partly to cover some mistakes on the part of the vendor)
and I was given very good pricing all things considered.

So communicate with your distis and reps. Don't treat them like the
enemy, treat them as what they are, a business partner.

 

[Didi]

A lot of companies, including nearly all European semi mfgs, don't even

And if they don't know what they have missed out on, why would you
expect them to take these missed opportunities into account??? They
can only work with the info they have.

I agree with Joerg on that. Clearly they can act only based on
informaton
they have, but if they have not got it in 2007 how the electronics
industry
works when it comes to designing new products they won't get it/change
their attitude no matter what info you give them other than order
zillions
(which would impress any person from the street, it does not take any
qualified personell to act on that).
They just have guaranteed busyness and as long as they don't have to
fight for survival they won't care. This is valid not only for
European,
also for American and whatever companies. Not all of them, of course
(and I believe the percentage among European is higher as Joerg
suggests.
Some - many - are really good to deal with, about data, samples and
all.

So communicate with your distis and reps. Don't treat them like the
enemy, treat them as what they are, a business partner.

Well, while this is a valid point it is also the obvious approach.
The question is what happens next when the vendor tells you "make me a
$20M/quarter
revenue first and we'll consider whether to provide you under NDA
with the data you requested"... or something like that. (I know it
sounds like a joke but I did get this reply from Xilinx several years
ago...).

Dimiter

 

[Joerg]

And if they don't know what they have missed out on, why would you
expect them to take these missed opportunities into account??? They
can only work with the info they have.

They do not listen. I've tried numerous times, then went on to their
competitors and never really looked back. Listening is an important
skill but it seems that it is not taught in marketing school. Ok, ok, on
the other hand I liked my first contact with marketing so much that we
are still married ;-)

That is why it is important for you to explain to the vendors what the
potential of a given product is. I have been in this position
before. Not only did I get samples, when I had some issues I got very
good support (partly to cover some mistakes on the part of the vendor)
and I was given very good pricing all things considered.

So communicate with your distis and reps. Don't treat them like the
enemy, treat them as what they are, a business partner.

I would like to do that. However, most of them are still encrusted in
the regional thinking of yesteryear. That was ok 50 years ago but now an
engineer will not even know where something will be produced. Heck, even
my clients sometimes don't because that is subject to an international
bidding process. Could be China, could be Malaysia, who knows? I
certainly don't. So what should I respond to the first question the
disti fires at me: How many will be used per year and where will it be
produced? Out of principle I do not lie.

So what happens then? They remain polite but promised answers to
questions never materialize, etc. Then we just move on to companies that
provide efficient and direct support. National, TI, AD, and so on. The
design-in rate for the others is approaching zero.

 

[Didi]

Then we just move on to companies that

provide efficient and direct support. National, TI, AD, and so on.

If half of the companies were half as good to deal with as those you
listed are....
It is nice to dream sometimes .

Dimiter