new comers

[deepanageswari]

Being new comers to java programming field, in what way they can
improve their skills to become a best programmers this help all the
new comers, if any body having ideas please tells us which book book
should we refer.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

Being new comers to java programming field, in what way they can
improve their skills to become a best programmers

Is that a question?

Questions, in English, are usually followed by a
question mark (?). The question mark helps
communicate the question to the end reader.

Being able to communicate technical details -
and queries or questions - is an important skill
in many fields, but especially so for computer
programmers.

..this help all the
new comers, if any body having ideas please tells us..

The Java Tutorial, viewable on-line and also available
for download, is an excellent resource.
The codes mentioned in the Java Tutorial often have
a lot of little quirks to them that do not demonstrate
'best practices' as currently understood, so it is valuable
to bring any codes you are working on, into a public
forum (like here, usenet*) and ask for other comments
on the code design and style.

.. which book book
should we refer.

If you prefer books, or also want some books, you might
check here for some good reviews of books related to
Java programming and software design.
<http://www.techbookreport.com/JavaIndex.html>

* The comp.lang.java.* heirarchy of groups is devoted
to discussion of various aspects of the Java programming
language, but the *best* group for those learning Java,
is comp.lang.java.help.

HTH

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200708/1

 

[Patricia Shanahan]

Being new comers to java programming field, in what way they can
improve their skills to become a best programmers this help all the
new comers, if any body having ideas please tells us which book book
should we refer.

The best advice I have for someone learning to program in any language
is to mix reading and practicing programming.

You need the reading to find out how to use the language correctly, but
programming is a skill as well as a field of knowledge, and the skill
comes from practice.

Patricia

 

[Frederick Polgardy]

Being new comers to java programming field, in what way they can
improve their skills to become a best programmers this help all the
new comers, if any body having ideas please tells us which book book
should we refer.

I guess I'd recommend not pigeonholing yourself into technology or
framework fads. Learn tried and true basic programming concepts -
it's remarkable how many people out there know more about the alphabet
soup of technologies than they do about the basics.

And learn different programming languages.

 

[Roedy Green]

Being new comers to java programming field, in what way they can
improve their skills to become a best programmers this help all the
new comers, if any body having ideas please tells us which book book
should we refer.

see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/gettingstarted.html

 

[Roedy Green]

Is that a question?

Questions, in English, are usually followed by a
question mark (?). The question mark helps
communicate the question to the end reader.

PLEASE CUT IT OUT! You spend more time belittling people for
irrelevant imperfections than you do answering questions. Obviously
this person has English as a second language, or comes from a part of
the world where English is quite different from yours. Cut him some
slack.

You had no problem figuring out what he meant. Why do you imagine
everyone else did? You used his grammatical clumsiness as an excuse
for bullying. You are continually putting people down for trivial
infractions of your obsessive rules.

All you will do with your nitpicking is frighten away people from
learning Java. Surely that is counter to your goal too.

You can ask others to change, but demanding they do so, or bawling
them out on the first offense is counter productive. You scare them,
anger them, or shame them. They committed no crime by failing to
comply with your wishes before you even expressed them.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

PLEASE CUT IT OUT!

(Please stop shouting, I an not f*cken deaf.)

...You spend more time ...

Rot. Back that up with numbers (and post titles),
or stop telling lies about me.

..belittling ...

It is *your* perception that I have belittled anyone.
Maybe you need to change *your* perception.

 

[kaldrenon]

It is *your* perception that I have belittled anyone.
Maybe you need to change *your* perception.

FWIW, I generally agree with Roedy, at least to a degree. Helpful
pointers on English spelling and grammar, especially for a likely non-
native English speaker, is all well and good, but when their English
is clear enough that the question they're asking is discernible, it's
a little rude to criticize their grammar and offer no Java-related
advice. This isn't people.lang.english.learn.

No offense intended here, just throwing in my thoughts.

 

[Roedy Green]

(Please stop shouting, I an not f*cken deaf.)

I beg to disagree. You pay absolutely no attention to requests to stop
bullying the newbies. It is time you got a dose of the harsh medicine
you so regularly dish out.

 

[Roedy Green]

Rot. Back that up with numbers (and post titles),
or stop telling lies about me.

BULLSHIT. Count your own bloody posts, ones where you criticised the
questioner without answering the question, ones where you answered the
question and ones where you did both.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

kaldrenon wrote:
...

...but when their English
is clear enough that the question they're asking is discernible,

To who? To someone that is carefully reading every word
of posts, searching for questions? To somone who is
'glancing through' a post to *see* if there are any questions.

The first person might see the question, the second
does not.

I read a lot of threads and do not have the time to go
'hunting' for questions. Many others who are less prolific
also have even *more* limited time, or simply *ignore* the
messages where the poster does not write in a way that
is easy to read.

This is why I encourage (usually new) posters to
make a clear question, and assist the reader in
any way they can.

If they choose not to follow my *advice* - fine for them.
They can do that, and get the 'less answers' that will
result in. No skin off my nose.

...it's a little rude to criticize their grammar and
offer no Java-related advice. ...

That is *priceless*!

The 'Java related' advice I posted on the first reply
to this thread had more length than the grammatical
tips I gave (which were, BTW usenet related advice).
The people that are slagging me, start with a single line
'link' answer, and go on to ..you who provides not *one*
iota of Java related content.

To the OP (the Original Poster - the one who started
the thread). You might get lots of platitudes and sincere
'niceness' from my critics, but ask yourself this.

Why are you posting to this group? Is it more to
start polite conversations with nice people, or rather
to get answers to technical questions?

For the first reason, this is a poor place to post. It is
unmoderated, and people like ..me, Roedy and Kaldrenon
can often get into petty little squabbles, but OTOH, there
is also a lot of highly valuable technical information
exchanged on these unmoderated groups.

If you can understand that corrections or suggestions are
being offered in your best interests, and can profit from
them - this is a good place to post. If you felt that my
initial reply was 'rude' as the later posters seemed to
think, then it is probably a forum that will offend you
regularly.

As an aside. Were you offended by my comment?
Did you think it was rude?

 

[Twisted]

FWIW, I generally agree with Roedy, at least to a degree. Helpful
pointers on English spelling and grammar, especially for a likely non-
native English speaker, is all well and good, but when their English
is clear enough that the question they're asking is discernible, it's
a little rude to criticize their grammar and offer no Java-related
advice. This isn't people.lang.english.learn.

I'm afraid I must jump in here and say that both sides are behaving
like asses.

Andrew, your frequent mild grammar and spelling flames/pedantry often
do seem to take priority over actual on-topic content.

Kaldrenon and Roedy, however, you weren't quite fair here, as Andrew
did actually offer some Java-related advice here -- indeed, he pointed
to the excellent and free Java Tutorial, where a lot of people would
have pushed the n00bs directly towards a pay solution such as a book.
And since they actually asked for books and maybe would prefer
physical books (even expensive ones) to a Web site, he did also
provide a pointer to those.

Nonetheless, there are a few people showing a tendency to post 100%
off-topic responses to on-topic posts from time to time. Andrew was
not 100% off-topic in this particular instance, it's true, but Andrew
and Lew in particular seem to be prone to this nonetheless. This
includes such instances as:
* Answering a Java question that could be reasonably parsed with 100%
pure, Java-free spelling and grammar criticism;
* Answering a Java question with a long essay on the relative merits
of cross-posting and multi-posting that was 100% Java free;
* Responding to posts regarding Java sites or Java software with 100%
off-topic rants denouncing the posters as spammers, despite the post
being clearly on-topic and, in most cases, even non-commercial. (I
would consider on-topic but commercially-motivated postings to be
acceptable given full disclosure and given that there is no excess/
frequent repetition or excessive cross-posting. An announcement, say,
or a response to a question that suggests a commercial solution. Note
"full disclosure"; I have been known to drop a load on someone myself
when they sneakily answer a question by suggesting they use thus-and-
such without mentioning up-front that thus-and-such is proprietary and
expensive. If the poster financially benefits I would especially
consider lack of disclosure, that the solution costs money or that the
poster captures some of that money, to be especially egregious.)
* Flaming that isn't in retaliation to a pre-existing flame, or that
leaves the "score" unbalanced more generally (i.e. is an odd-numbered
flame in its references chain).

 

[Patricia Shanahan]

FWIW, I generally agree with Roedy, at least to a degree. Helpful
pointers on English spelling and grammar, especially for a likely non-
native English speaker, is all well and good, but when their English
is clear enough that the question they're asking is discernible, it's
a little rude to criticize their grammar and offer no Java-related
advice. This isn't people.lang.english.learn.

No offense intended here, just throwing in my thoughts.

You have stated my position rather well.

Thanks,

Patricia

 

[Roedy Green]

It is *your* perception that I have belittled anyone.
Maybe you need to change *your* perception.

It doesn't matter what your perception is, it is the perception of
others that counts. Did even once anyone thank you for the reprimand?
To my eyes you are usually quite rude, sometimes though with a tinge
of humour that takes the edge off.

It is only natural for a professional computer programmer to be picky,
even obsessive about natural language grammar, spelling and
pronunciation. See http://mindprod.com/contact/peeves.html
A few hours ago partner was teasing me that my compulsive behaviour
goes unnoticed because so much of it is directed to computer coding.

I vent my obsession on professional announcers by sending the letters
when they butcher the language. They are supposed to know better.

I sometime indirectly vent it on newsgroup participants by
"translating" their posts into English and correcting spelling then
quietly use > as if my words were their direct quote. I don't think
anyone has ever noticed. At least I have not heard anyone call me on
the deliberate misquoting.

I do it more openly with code, tidying it up, renaming, commenting
etc. then commenting on that code.

A trick I use for reprimanding with less sting is to write a generic
essay about the issue and post it on my website. Then I simply direct
a offender to the essay, e.g.
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/homework.html. The advantage is the
reprimand is clearly not personal, and there is no reason to believe
all of it applies to the reader directed there. They can accept as
much as they are ready to hear.

It bothers me that the traffic on the Java newsgroups is down. It
should logically be going up. I fear you may be part of the cause
scaring people away with your demands for perfection.

 

[Stefan Ram]

It bothers me that the traffic on the Java newsgroups is down.

Here's the traffic of the German Java newsgroup:

http://usenet.dex.de/pix/lifeline/de.comp.lang.java.png

 

[nicky]

Being new comers to java programming field, in what way they can
improve their skills to become a best programmers this help all the
new comers, if any body having ideas please tells us which book book
should we refer.

I have read the book written by Khalid Moughal for java certification.
This book is the best book i ve ever read about any programming
language. This is just like denis retchie book on C. I want to kiss
the hands of Khalid Moughal for writing such a great book.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

Here's the traffic of the German Java newsgroup:

http://usenet.dex.de/pix/lifeline/de.comp.lang.java.png

<I blame Google translate>
Scheiße! Ich wußte, daß ich nicht jene gelegentlichen
Kreuzpfosten als mein Mittel „übersetzen lassen haben
sollte der deutschen Gruppe riskierendes Google“.

Meine Entschuldigungen zum Auswärtigen Amt bitte
übermitteln. Ich würde nicht ein internationales Ereignis
verursachen wollen!
</I blame Google translate>

;-)

 

[Mark Space]

Being new comers to java programming field, in what way they can
improve their skills to become a best programmers this help all the
new comers, if any body having ideas please tells us which book book
should we refer.

This book is not perfect, but it is good. Learning Java by O'Reilly
Press is a great way to learn the basics in an organized fashion. This
book has enough detail to be used as a reference after the basic
learning process is done.

http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/learnjava3/index.html

Make sure you get the third edition. Combine Learning Java with Sun's
online tutorial and the Javadoc reference and you have very complete
introduction to the language.

Also, there is a free online class that is starting now. It's actually
already started, but it's *just* stated and there's still plenty of time
to jump in. A structured class like this is a great way to motivate
yourself and stay focused on learning Java.

http://www.javapassion.com/

http://www.javapassion.com/javaintro/

 

[Twisted]

<I blame Google translate>
Scheiße!

Indeed. Such language! Bad Google -- wash your mouth out with soap!

You all saw it -- Google translate just swore at Andrew!

 

[Guest]

I read a lot of threads and do not have the time to go
'hunting' for questions. Many others who are less prolific
also have even *more* limited time, or simply *ignore* the
messages where the poster does not write in a way that
is easy to read.

Why do you think it is a problem for other to read
cryptic questions and not a problem reading your
comments on english ?

Arne