Opening fullscreen windows using JavaScript

[David Dorward]

"How do I opening a maximised window using JavaScript?" is a question that
comes up here from time to time.

Here is a rather visible example of why doing so is really foolish:
http://david.us-lot.org/tmp/fullscreen.jpeg

 

[David Dorward]

How does using a 2752 x 1200 jpeg file make a case for not using
Javascipt to open a maximised window.

That is a screenshow of my system after a site opened a fullscreen window
using JavaScript. A large portion of it appeared in the dead space where I
don't have a screen, and the main content was split across two screens with
a gap of a few inches between parts of characters (or it would be if I had
turned flash on). It also looked exceptionally silly.

I'm obviously missing the point of your argument, could you demonstrate
the problem again by using your own site http://david.us-lot.org/

No. My own site doesn't open fullscreen windows.

 

[Keith]

That is a screenshow of my system after a site opened a fullscreen window
using JavaScript. A large portion of it appeared in the dead space where I
don't have a screen, and the main content was split across two screens with
a gap of a few inches between parts of characters (or it would be if I had
turned flash on). It also looked exceptionally silly.


No. My own site doesn't open fullscreen windows.

Hi again David,

Am I wrong then in presuming that you were making the point, that for
whatever reason, it is foolish for any site to open another maximised window
using Javascipt.

As an example, (only the relevant lines here) I called your site from
within a site with:

<script language="JavaScript">
<!-- Begin
function Start(page) {
OpenWin = this.open(page, "CtrlWindow",
"toolbar=yes,menubar=yes,location=yes,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes");
}
// End -->
</script>

<a href="javascript:Start('http://david.us-lot.org/')">David's site</a>

and your content displayed ok in the newly opened window.

Regards - Keith

 

[Geoff Ball]

Am I wrong then in presuming that you were making the point, that for
whatever reason, it is foolish for any site to open another maximised
window using Javascipt.

That's what he's saying, yes.

Regards,
Geoff

 

[Mark Parnell]

Am I wrong then in presuming that you were making the point, that for
whatever reason, it is foolish for any site to open another maximised
window using Javascipt.

No, that's pretty much what he's saying. Opening a link in a new window is
foolish. Maximising the user's browser is foolish. Doing both at once?
*Very* foolish.

 

[David Dorward]

Am I wrong then in presuming that you were making the point, that for
whatever reason, it is foolish for any site to open another maximised
window using Javascipt.

No, you are correct.

and your content displayed ok in the newly opened window.

Your system might lend itself to full screen windows. Lots don't, and
authors should not assume that everyone has a system comparable to their
own.

 

[DU]

Keith wrote:




No, you are correct.

<snip> Evil JS </snip>

<script language="JavaScript">
<!-- Begin
function Start(page) {
OpenWin = this.open(page, "CtrlWindow",
"toolbar=yes,menubar=yes,location=yes,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes");
}
// End -->
</script>


There is nothing really evil about this javascript function, except
1- that status bar is missing and can be imposed by Mozilla-based
browser users and Opera 7.x users. Removing the status bar is removing a
browser functionality which is supposed to give to the user genuine,
reliable, unaltered browser info, notifications (about connection, http
requests, url, etc.) to the user.

2- The OpenWin has not been declared as a global variable, so if the
secondary window already exists, or is behind the opener, etc.. no code
has been edited to prevent to abusing the user's resources by destroying
the popup and re-creating it again.

The new window's dimensions will be those of the opener (persistent data
being saved) and its position will be 15 pixels down and 15 pixels to
the right of the opener, assuming the opener is not maximized. The 15
pixels offset is a de facto standard on MSIE for Windows and
Mozilla-based browsers. The logic behind these 15pixels is to best make
sure that the new window will be offset a little and will help the user
noticing that a new window, a secondary windows just was created.
So, in no way can people assume that the given Start(page) function
create maximized or full screen windows. It's relative to the opener
window dimensions and position as it was last saved by the os (at least
under Windows).

Your system might lend itself to full screen windows. Lots don't, and
authors should not assume that everyone has a system comparable to their
own.

DU

 

[Keith]

Thanks everyone for their explanatory reasons sgainst Javascript opening a
new window. However, I'm convinced that Joe Average (and I'm one) who also
as you all know predominantly uses MIE, would not have the slightest problem
with sites opening another window.

Of course, I fully understand that if those site designers who do open
another window had your experience and knowledge, then they would conform to
recognised and correct practise and not open the window.

Regards to you all - Keith

 

[David Dorward]

Am I wrong then in presuming that you were making the point, that for
whatever reason, it is foolish for any site to open another maximised
window using Javascipt.

open(page, "CtrlWindow",
"toolbar=yes,menubar=yes,location=yes,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes");

I looked at the code again.

I said _fullscreen_ not _default_size_.

Opening new windows at all has its problems, but that wasn't the issue I
raised. Obviously opening a new window of the default size will only
exhibit the stupidity shown in the initial example if the user sets their
browser window to a unusable dimension.

 

[DU]

Thanks everyone for their explanatory reasons sgainst Javascript opening a
new window. However, I'm convinced that Joe Average (and I'm one) who also
as you all know predominantly uses MIE,

Joe Average also uses proxomitron and other anti-popups, you know.
Here's the kind of software what Joe Average was using back a few years ago:
http://www.4degreez.com/popupsmustdie/viewvote.htm


would not have the slightest problem

with sites opening another window.

Not true. This is simply not defendable. The "slightest" word in your
statement is simply NOT true and extremely questionable.
90% of all sites using popup windows are BADLY coded and BADLY designed.
Above 80% of users of popup killers have huge difficulties understanding
what are popups, requested popups, unrequested popupss, popups created
via target attribute, popunder, and settings involved with popup
suppression.

Of course, I fully understand that if those site designers who do open
another window

Why talk about other designers? What about you?

had your experience and knowledge, then they would conform to

recognised and correct practise and not open the window.

Regards to you all - Keith

Well, then maybe you should continue this discussion with others from
Microsoft and usability domains who have studied Joe Average behaviors.
Here's what they published in broad daylight:

1) "Research shows that most users don't like to run more than one
application at a time. In fact, many users are confused by multiple
applications."
Windows User Experience team,
Microsoft Windows User Experience Frequently Asked Questions: Why is the
taskbar at the bottom of the screen?,
March 2001

2) "Using pop-up browser windows to display advertising on the Web has
become so commonplace that there is now software that prevents these
windows from opening. This software can have the unwanted side effect of
preventing legitimate Web pages from being displayed, sometimes
suppressing an entire digital media presentation."
Kevin Larkin, Jim Travis, Microsoft New Media Platforms Division,
Using the Windows Media Player 9 Series HTMLView Feature: Advantages of
Using HTMLView,
January 2003

3) "The biggest fault with pop-ups is that it takes the focus away from
the main browser window, and this can be disconcerting. It presents
general usability issues aside from accessibility. How often have you
seen someone launch a pop-up and then inadvertently click back on the
launcher window and thinking that nothing's happened, click the link
again with nothing happening? Of course the window has opened but is now
under the launcher window, and only moving down to the task-bar and
selecting the window from there will solve this."
Ian Lloyd, Accessify.com, November 20th 2002

4) "(...) spawning second browser windows can completely throw users off
track because it removes the one thing they are sure how to use: the
'Back' button.(...) In another recent study, six out of 17 users had
difficulty with multiple windows, and three of them required assistance
to get back to the first window and continue the task."
Carolyn Snyder (IBM), Seven tricks that Web users don't know: 7. Second
browser windows, June 2001

5) "Users often don't notice that a new window has opened, especially if
they are using a small monitor where the windows are maximized to fill
up the screen. So a user who tries to return to the origin will be
confused by a grayed out Back button."
Jakob Nielsen, The Top Ten New Mistakes of Web Design: 2. Opening New
Browser Windows, May 30, 1999

DU