problem with email link.

P

pedro

Does anyone know why the email link in this page does not get the little
hand and finger? It still works as a link, but it's not obvious that it
is, as the pointer does not change. Can anyone suggest how to fix it?
The 'up' arrows don't cause the pointer to change either. However, there
is not these problems in Netscape, except that the blue line in the
heading is not centred, and the links become underlined. (sigh)

http://klausford.vze.com/gradings_standard.html

TIA


rgds,

Pete
-----
 
J

Jose

Does anyone know why the email link in this page does not get the little hand and finger? It still works as a link, but it's not obvious that it is, as the pointer does not change. Can anyone suggest how to fix it? The 'up' arrows don't cause the pointer to change either. However, there is not these problems in Netscape, except that the blue line in the heading is not centred, and the links become underlined. (sigh)

I don't know, but I do notice that the URL does not go to your site.
When I click on the URL I see your site, but show-source doesn't show
the source. It's tricked out as a redirect from shorturl.com.

The actual URL is
http://users.tpg.com.au/ptw356/Klaus_Ford/grading_standard.html
(which isn't much shorter) and show source on this yields a =huge= file.

(Why do you use smart tags?)

IT may be something that the redirector does in its styles, scripts, and
what not. But I'm guessing - I don't see anything obvious.

Jose
 
M

Mark Parnell

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, pedro
Does anyone know why the email link in this page does not get the little
hand and finger?

http://users.tpg.com.au/ptw356/Klaus_Ford/grading_standard.html

Considering there is no doctype (so the browser is in Quirks mode), and
there are 251 validation errors if we assume the most lenient doctype
(HTML 4.01 Transitional), anything is possible.

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbo...om.au/ptw356/Klaus_Ford/grading_standard.html
http://tinyurl.com/b4569

Fix the above, then if problems persist, ask again.

Actually, on a second look it seems it was produced by Word, so scratch
the above - scrap the lot and start again using a real HTML editor (even
Notepad would do) instead of a word processor.
 
J

Jose

I could not locate an email link on the URL that you supplied

It's the envelope picture near the top. And it's not actually at the
supplied URL... it's at the one redirected to.

Jose
 
S

saz

Does anyone know why the email link in this page does not get the little
hand and finger? It still works as a link, but it's not obvious that it
is, as the pointer does not change. Can anyone suggest how to fix it?
The 'up' arrows don't cause the pointer to change either. However, there
is not these problems in Netscape, except that the blue line in the
heading is not centred, and the links become underlined. (sigh)

http://klausford.vze.com/gradings_standard.html

TIA


rgds,

Pete
Problem 1 - you used Word to generate this page. Big mistake. Your
coding is a disaster and it will not display properly in Netscape,
Mozilla or FireFox.

Problem 2 - I can't find an email address anywhere on this page.
 
S

saz

It's the envelope picture near the top. And it's not actually at the
supplied URL... it's at the one redirected to.

Jose
Now I found the email:


<p align=center style='text-align:center'><b><I><span style='font-
size:10.5pt;
font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><a href="mailto:[email protected]"
title="Click here to send email to Klaus Ford"><span style='text-
decoration:
none;text-underline:none'><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000
_t75"
coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@
11@9@11@9@5xe"
filled="f" stroked="f">



This is the kind of garbage coding Word produces. This means absolutely
nothing and will clearly not create an underlined hyperlink.

Get rid of Word and start from scratch. Fixing this would take longer
than re-creating it with proper HTML.
 
P

pedro

saz wrote:

Problem 1 - you used Word to generate this page. Big mistake. Your
coding is a disaster and it will not display properly in Netscape,
Mozilla or FireFox.

You're right. I just used Word and saved (and edited) as a HTML file.

Problem 2 - I can't find an email address anywhere on this page.

It's the picture with the letter at the top of the page.


rgds,

Pete
-----
 
P

pedro

Mark Parnell wrote:

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, pedro
<[email protected]> spouted in alt.html:




http://users.tpg.com.au/ptw356/Klaus_Ford/grading_standard.html

Considering there is no doctype (so the browser is in Quirks mode), and
there are 251 validation errors if we assume the most lenient doctype
(HTML 4.01 Transitional), anything is possible.

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbo...om.au/ptw356/Klaus_Ford/grading_standard.html
http://tinyurl.com/b4569

Fix the above, then if problems persist, ask again.

Actually, on a second look it seems it was produced by Word, so scratch
the above - scrap the lot and start again using a real HTML editor (even
Notepad would do) instead of a word processor.

However I don't want to have to do coding. I just want to be able to use
a WYSIWYG page creator.
 
P

pedro

Jose wrote:

I don't know, but I do notice that the URL does not go to your site.
When I click on the URL I see your site, but show-source doesn't show
the source. It's tricked out as a redirect from shorturl.com.


View souce works for me.

The actual URL is
http://users.tpg.com.au/ptw356/Klaus_Ford/grading_standard.html
(which isn't much shorter) and show source on this yields a =huge= file.

(Why do you use smart tags?)

IT may be something that the redirector does in its styles, scripts,
and what not. But I'm guessing - I don't see anything obvious.


No, the real link or the re-direct produces the same result.
 
J

Jose

However I don't want to have to do coding. I just want to be able to use a WYSIWYG page creator.

Try Netscape composer. It's not the best, but it's what I have and it's
quite adequate for the kind of page you are creating. There are many
others I'm sure. No need to get anything fancy.

And DO NOT use FrontPage under any circumstances!

Jose
 
P

pedro

saz wrote:

It's the envelope picture near the top. And it's not actually at the
supplied URL... it's at the one redirected to.

Jose
Now I found the email:


<p align=center style='text-align:center'><b><I><span style='font-
size:10.5pt;
font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><a href="mailto:[email protected]"
title="Click here to send email to Klaus Ford"><span style='text-
decoration:
none;text-underline:none'><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000
_t75"
coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@
11@9@11@9@5xe"
filled="f" stroked="f">



This is the kind of garbage coding Word produces. This means absolutely
nothing and will clearly not create an underlined hyperlink.

Get rid of Word and start from scratch. Fixing this would take longer
than re-creating it with proper HTML.

OK.
 
M

Mark Parnell

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, pedro
However I don't want to have to do coding. I just want to be able to use
a WYSIWYG page creator.

Then you have to be prepared to accept less-than-ideal code. Though
anything is better than Word (except Excel and Publisher). Word is a
word processor, not an HTML editor.

Of the WYSIWYMG editors, Nvu <http://nvu.com/> is the best. It's also
free.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

pedro said:
Does anyone know why the email link in this page does not get the little
hand and finger? It still works as a link, but it's not obvious that it
is, as the pointer does not change. Can anyone suggest how to fix it?
The 'up' arrows don't cause the pointer to change either. However, there
is not these problems in Netscape, except that the blue line in the
heading is not centred, and the links become underlined. (sigh)

http://klausford.vze.com/gradings_standard.html

The Lord only knows, and would not be worth the effort to wade through
all the gobbly-gook the MS Word put in. The best way to fix the problem
is NOT to use Word for web page creation...

BTW, which version Netscape? Works fin in latest Mozilla, FF, old
Netscape 7.1 and 4.6!!
 
P

pedro

Jonathan N. Little wrote:

The Lord only knows, and would not be worth the effort to wade through
all the gobbly-gook the MS Word put in. The best way to fix the
problem is NOT to use Word for web page creation...

BTW, which version Netscape? Works fin in latest Mozilla, FF, old
Netscape 7.1 and 4.6!!

Version 7.2.
 
P

pedro

Jose wrote:

Try Netscape composer. It's not the best, but it's what I have and
it's quite adequate for the kind of page you are creating. There are
many others I'm sure. No need to get anything fancy.


I have used it before, and I like it. I guess I will just have to bite
the bullet, and re-do it in NS, which means I will have to reformat
everything. I can't just cut and paste, or I will still get all the
crappy Word code, which is causing the problems. (sigh)

And DO NOT use FrontPage under any circumstances!

Jose


Never liked MS stuff anyway.
 
C

Chaddy2222

pedro said:
Mark Parnell wrote:



However I don't want to have to do coding. I just want to be able to use
a WYSIWYG page creator.
http://www.nvu.com
Download that program and give it a go.
It's built on the same technology as NS Composer and works quite well.
 
A

Alan J. Flavell

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, pedro


Then you have to be prepared to accept less-than-ideal code.

In HTML, "what you get" is structured markup, whether you want it or
not. If what the author was seeing was structured markup, then the
term "what you see is what you get" *might* just make some kind of
sense. But what the Great Unwashed think they mean by WYSIWYG is very
far from that. The best that can be said about HTML with that kind of
approach is "what you see is not what others get". It's pretty much
guaranteed that results will be sub-optimal when the authoring tool -
i.e a graphical *manipulation* editor - is at such variance with the
underlying architectural principles - i.e structural markup in HTML
and optional presentational proposal(s) in CSS stylesheet(s). You
can't make e.g structural blockquotes - or anything else that involves
understanding the semantics of the original content - merely by
shoving lumps of text around a graphical screen.
Though anything is better than Word

It's feasible to do a fine job with Word:

- create the Word document using a suitable style template, *not*
by direct formatting[1]

- export the Word document to RTF

- use a suitable third-party RTF-to-web converter (the one I used to
use at work is now obsolete, but I suppose that its successor,
Logictran RTF converter, is even better).

Word has had working structural markup since long before it was
practical to deploy it in WWW technology! The sad part is that so few
Word users have learned to use it.

Stay away (of course) from any MS software which purports to extrude
HTML.
Word is a word processor, not an HTML editor.

Nevertheless, there are ways of using it which make it better than any
soi-disant "wysiwyg" editor. I pity that I haven't had the
opportunity to explore that better in recent times, but from what
limited experience I had in the past, I was satisfied enough with the
results *at that time* (by now those results are outdated HTML/3.2-ish
stuff, and I wouldn't present them here now with any pride, but I
insist that for their time, they stood up well).

It, like Mozilla Composer, is a graphical previewing web page editor.
One can see, and edit, "what one gets", i.e the structural markup, as
well as preview what one browser would display in response. Used
properly, I reckon it's a fine tool (I must admit I still use a
plaintext editor myself, indeed it's got easier since we tossed out
HTML/3.2 and went mainly "Strict").

I can't be bothered with all these "WYSINWOG", "WYSIJOPR", "WYSIWYMG"
confuddling alphabet salads. Can't we try calling things for what
they are, rather than for what ignorant folks who have no
understanding of the underlying principles want to call them?

cheers

[1] If I had my "druthers", the direct formatting buttons in Word
would be ripped out, and their functions hidden away in some obscure
menu for advanced users, leaving the normal user only with style
template settings for paragraph and phrase styles.
 
C

Chaddy2222

Alan said:
Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, pedro


Then you have to be prepared to accept less-than-ideal code.

In HTML, "what you get" is structured markup, whether you want it or
not. If what the author was seeing was structured markup, then the
term "what you see is what you get" *might* just make some kind of
sense. But what the Great Unwashed think they mean by WYSIWYG is very
far from that. The best that can be said about HTML with that kind of
approach is "what you see is not what others get". It's pretty much
guaranteed that results will be sub-optimal when the authoring tool -
i.e a graphical *manipulation* editor - is at such variance with the
underlying architectural principles - i.e structural markup in HTML
and optional presentational proposal(s) in CSS stylesheet(s). You
can't make e.g structural blockquotes - or anything else that involves
understanding the semantics of the original content - merely by
shoving lumps of text around a graphical screen.
Though anything is better than Word

It's feasible to do a fine job with Word:

- create the Word document using a suitable style template, *not*
by direct formatting[1]

- export the Word document to RTF

- use a suitable third-party RTF-to-web converter (the one I used to
use at work is now obsolete, but I suppose that its successor,
Logictran RTF converter, is even better).

Word has had working structural markup since long before it was
practical to deploy it in WWW technology!

That's interesting.
I am sure it could be done, but it's a bit teadious for a lot of people
I would think.

The sad part is that so few
Word users have learned to use it.

Stay away (of course) from any MS software which purports to extrude
HTML.
I agree.
Nevertheless, there are ways of using it which make it better than any
soi-disant "wysiwyg" editor. I pity that I haven't had the
opportunity to explore that better in recent times, but from what
limited experience I had in the past, I was satisfied enough with the
results *at that time* (by now those results are outdated HTML/3.2-ish
I like NVU as it produces valid code without having to really do too
much messing around. The most trouble (that I know of) has been when
some users have tried to update there MS Frontpage sites useing NVU.
Which did / doesn't really work too well due to the large amount of
crappy code that is generated by the MS family of products.
stuff, and I wouldn't present them here now with any pride, but I
insist that for their time, they stood up well).


It, like Mozilla Composer, is a graphical previewing web page editor.
One can see, and edit, "what one gets", i.e the structural markup, as
well as preview what one browser would display in response. Used
properly, I reckon it's a fine tool (I must admit I still use a
plaintext editor myself, indeed it's got easier since we tossed out
HTML/3.2 and went mainly "Strict").

I can't be bothered with all these "WYSINWOG", "WYSIJOPR", "WYSIWYMG"
confuddling alphabet salads. Can't we try calling things for what
they are, rather than for what ignorant folks who have no
understanding of the underlying principles want to call them?
Interesting point.
I do think the WYSIWYG html editors are good, as they do make the
creation of websites a lot quicker and easyer.
But on the other hand. I do believe that people should at least have
some knoledge of html before downloading and useing the products.
Oh and while I think of it, NVU does have a source view, where you can
view the source code. But, like all of these editors, it change the
code, in one way or another.
I should also make mention, that I have not tried creating a document
in Nvu useing a Strict DTD. So I am not sure how well the program would
handle such code,
But judging how well it has worked so far, I think it would go ok.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

pedro said:
Jose wrote:





I have used it before, and I like it. I guess I will just have to bite
the bullet, and re-do it in NS, which means I will have to reformat
everything. I can't just cut and paste, or I will still get all the
crappy Word code, which is causing the problems. (sigh)

No, all you have to do is open your page in your browser copy your text
and then in Composer right-click and select 'Paste without formatting'.
You can go by section to keep yourself organized and style afterward,
saves a bit of typing...
 

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