Programming Newbie Question

[Morgan]

Hi everyone,

I've got three questions for you guys.

A: What is the ultimate (totally utterly ultimate!) desired skillset
for a web-based programmer?

B: What are your thoughts on Perl? How is it useful? Problems with it?
etc

C: What are your thoughts on PHP? I've heard PHP on its way out, is
this true?

Thanks,
Morgan

 

[Morgan]

A thought, wheres your faq?

 

[Randy Webb]

Morgan said the following on 9/16/2005 4:09 PM:

Hi everyone,

I've got three questions for you guys.

A: What is the ultimate (totally utterly ultimate!) desired skillset
for a web-based programmer?

The ability to come up with an *intelligent* solution to a problem and
then either being able to code it, or, having enough intelligence to
hire people that do know how.

B: What are your thoughts on Perl? How is it useful? Problems with it?
etc

No thoughts on PERL, never used it.

C: What are your thoughts on PHP?

I like PHP.

I've heard PHP on its way out, is this true?

Not according to www.php.net

 

[David Dorward]

A: What is the ultimate (totally utterly ultimate!) desired skillset
for a web-based programmer?

Umm "Every skill in the world".

It really depends on the job that needs to be done.

B: What are your thoughts on Perl?

I love it. ITs JSON libraries make it lovely for interacting with
JavaScript. It also has the HTML:rototype module which I haven't used but
sounds rather cool. (http://search.cpan.org to find that module).

How is it useful?

Err - that would be a very long list.

Problems with it?

There is a lot of bad Perl out there, and its very easy to write bad Perl.

C: What are your thoughts on PHP?

Too many core functions. Too inconsistent. Encourages the mixing of
templating and programming. Loves XHTML too much. There is no good reason
for arg.seperator.output to be "&" by default. There is even more bad PHP
out there then Perl (or most programming languages as far as I can tell).

I've heard PHP on its way out, is this true?

Probably not. Its easy for people to pick up and run it (even if they then
tred mud all over the carpet) and is free.

 

[Morgan]

Umm "Every skill in the world".

It really depends on the job that needs to be done.

Thanks guys for replying. I'll try to be more specific about A

I'd need to mess about with databases
I'd need to be able to create server-side programs that are very fast
and effective.
I'd need to be able to create a GUI for online
Generally be able to do very powerful code that's cross platform. Java?

Sorry if these sound a little vague or strange, but I'm new at all
this.

B and C: I'm interested in php and perl, what is the job market for
perl and php developers? And the prospects for them in the next 3
years, 10 years etc

Also another quizzie I've been thinking about.

I was told that a vast amount of code in the world is still COBOL,
there is still huge almounts of C. In other words, would I get more
job security if I learned the older languages?

 

[bgulian]

A: What is the ultimate (totally utterly ultimate!) desired skillset

for a web-based programmer?

I'd just be repeating what Randy Webb already said.

B: What are your thoughts on Perl? How is it useful? Problems with it?
etc

The problem with Perl is that unless you use it every day, you must
relearn it every time you pick it up. It is the least intuitive
language I have come across and I come from a deep C, C++ background.
Having said that, I repeatedly go through the pain of relearning it
because it is also the most powerful language I've come across.

C: What are your thoughts on PHP?

I love PHP because it does very little hiding of functionality like ASP
Vbscript or Java. What you see is what you get. My impression is that
it is growing in popularity, not declining but unfortunately, I use it
only in my personal projects. Work is a Microsoft Server environment
so, of course, .NET is the deal.

 

[David Dorward]

Thanks guys for replying. I'll try to be more specific about A

I'd need to mess about with databases

Perl DBI is nice.

I'd need to be able to create server-side programs that are very fast
and effective.

mod_perl is fast

I'd need to be able to create a GUI for online

Template::Toolkit is nice

Generally be able to do very powerful code that's cross platform. Java?

I find Perl a lot less painful

B and C: I'm interested in php and perl, what is the job market for
perl and php developers?

Job market where? There are a lot of PHP jobs out there, there are quite a
lot of Perl jobs if you know where to look. Perl jobs (in my personal
experience) tend to be better paid (probably due to Perl programmers being,
on average, better then PHP programmers (since PHP attracts people new to
programming rather more than Perl does).

And the prospects for them in the next 3 years, 10 years etc

I would love to own a time machine.

I was told that a vast amount of code in the world is still COBOL,
there is still huge almounts of C. In other words, would I get more
job security if I learned the older languages?

There is lots of code written in COBOL, but not much new code. There is
likely to be plenty of demand for people to maintain Perl, PHP, Java,
COBOL, C and everything else under the sun for a long time to come.

This doesn't have much to do with the topic of the newsgroup though, does
it?

 

[Morgan]

Perl DBI is nice.


mod_perl is fast
Ok.


Template::Toolkit is nice

Never heard of it before now, the templates I saw on the gnome site
look dead nice though.

I find Perl a lot less painful

Really? I got the impression you almost had to relearn it every time
you pick it up from an above poster.

Job market where? There are a lot of PHP jobs out there, there are quite a
lot of Perl jobs if you know where to look. Perl jobs (in my personal
experience) tend to be better paid (probably due to Perl programmers being,
on average, better then PHP programmers (since PHP attracts people new to
programming rather more than Perl does).

Yeah, makes sense, likely I'd lean into PHP and Perl after as PHP seems
as user friendly as they come. Gotta get the concepts before you
become expert at anything.

I would love to own a time machine.

Let me know when you get one.

There is lots of code written in COBOL, but not much new code. There is
likely to be plenty of demand for people to maintain Perl, PHP, Java,
COBOL, C and everything else under the sun for a long time to come.

Instresting, because most people are under the illusion that the tech
industry moves dead fast, when in fact much of the code running inside
the worlds bussiness's is positivly ancient. I'll think I'll stick to
newer languages anyway, they look less intimidiating than the older
ones.

This doesn't have much to do with the topic of the newsgroup though, does
it?

No it doesn't! Sorry, I deviated a little here I guess.

 

[David Dorward]

Really? I got the impression you almost had to relearn it every time
you pick it up from an above poster.

I don't find that at all.

Yeah, makes sense, likely I'd lean into PHP and Perl after as PHP seems
as user friendly as they come. Gotta get the concepts before you
become expert at anything.

PHP (and Perl to a lesser extent[1]) make it really easy to write programs -
but not very easy to write *good* programs or *secure* programs. PHP is
also cursed by global configuration issues which change the way large
chunks of a program work (magic quotes being a prime example).

[1] Even that is mostly mitigated by use strict, use warnings and taint
mode.

 

[Morgan]

PHP (and Perl to a lesser extent[1]) make it really easy to write programs -

but not very easy to write *good* programs or *secure* programs. PHP is
also cursed by global configuration issues which change the way large
chunks of a program work (magic quotes being a prime example).

[1] Even that is mostly mitigated by use strict, use warnings and taint
mode.

I was under the impression many sites used these languages on secure
apps like shopping carts, taking credit card details etc. Maybe this
explains the amount of problems! Anyway, thanks for your help.