PyQt, Qt, Windows and Linux

[Jim]

One person (I think is was someone from theKompany) said that there was no

No, the functionality is the same (but is a subset of "normal" PyQt).

Yikes, what is "normal" PyQt? So the version of PyQt that comes with BlackAdder is just a subset of
"normal" PyQt ... How does one obtain the "normal" version of PyQt and what are the advantages? If
I'm spending money, I want to get it right the first time around

Thanks, Jim

 

[Phil Thompson]

Yikes, what is "normal" PyQt? So the version of PyQt that comes with
BlackAdder is just a subset of "normal" PyQt ... How does one obtain the
"normal" version of PyQt and what are the advantages? If I'm spending
money, I want to get it right the first time around

"Normal" PyQt is what is available from www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk, either
under the GPL (not for Windows) or a commercial license. It does not include
a copy of Qt - you need to get that separately with an appropriate license.

Functionally BlackAdder PyQt is based on the Professional Edition of Qt (plus
a couple of extras - see theKompany website for details). "Normal" PyQt is
based on the Enterprise Edition (which is the same as the GPL version) plus
QScintilla support.

Phil

 

[Jim Bublitz]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

PyKDE has been able to import KParts for at least a year. PyKDE
currently doesn't allow you to export (author) KParts in
Python, although the ability to do this is essentially complete
and mostly just needs to be integrated with the PyKDE
distribution.

Following up on my own message, David Boddie has just released
PyKDE addons for doing KParts, KDE Control Center Modules and
KDE IOSlaves (mostly in Python - some .so lib creation may be
required, but I expect David has this simplified quite a bit).

The code (first release, but David does good work) is at:

http://www.boddie.org.uk/david/Projects/Python/KDE/index.html

This will still require installing sip/PyQt/PyKDE but looks like
it will be maintained separate from the normal PyKDE
distribution.

Jim

 

[Richie Hindle]

[Phil]

Functionally BlackAdder PyQt is based on the Professional Edition of Qt (plus
a couple of extras - see theKompany website for details). "Normal" PyQt is
based on the Enterprise Edition (which is the same as the GPL version) plus
QScintilla support.

So if I buy BlackAdder, I don't get QScintilla? Someone's website, yours
or the Kompany's, should really make that clear (unless I've missed it; I
can't check theirs because it seems to be down at the moment).

Can I add a QScintilla licence to the package, and if so, at what extra
cost on top of the $400 for BlackAdder?

 

[John J. Lee]

Jim Bublitz wrote: [...]
Following up on my own message, David Boddie has just released
PyKDE addons for doing KParts, KDE Control Center Modules and [...]
This will still require installing sip/PyQt/PyKDE but looks like
it will be maintained separate from the normal PyKDE
distribution.

Not *another* package! Qt, sip, PyQt, PyKDE, and now this... (not to
mention Qwt and PyQwt, if you use those). Couldn't you combine the
packages, at least after Paul's package settles down a bit?


John

 

[Jim Bublitz]

Jim Bublitz wrote: [...]
Following up on my own message, David Boddie has just released
PyKDE addons for doing KParts, KDE Control Center Modules and [...]
This will still require installing sip/PyQt/PyKDE but looks
like it will be maintained separate from the normal PyKDE
distribution.

Not *another* package! Qt, sip, PyQt, PyKDE, and now this...
(not to mention Qwt and PyQwt, if you use those). Couldn't you
combine the packages, at least after Paul's package settles
down a bit?

You left out eric

The logic of separating the packages (beyond making them easier
to build) goes like this: sip is a general purpose C++ -> Python
bindings generator and run-time and while it has enhancements
for PyQt, doesn't require PyQt. A lot of people who use PyQt
have no desire to use PyKDE or PyQwt (or PyQt + PyQwt but not
PyKDE). There are a lot of PyQt users running Windows and OSX
support is in place for sip/PyQt 4, which is in pre-release.
Probably most people using PyKDE won't want to write KParts or
other plugin type stuff. PyQt and PyKDE also have fairly long
compile times, or when packaged as binaries, are usually split
into pieces themselves (eg PyQt, PyQt-devel, etc).

The other consideration is that each of the packages is developed
mostly independently and while there is a lot of communication
between us, we all have conflicting goals, schedules and
development styles. Right now the binaries are also produced
independent of the developers as well.

There are probably more packages coming over the next year, too.

Jim

 

[Rob Gowin]

I am kind of new to Python, and after trying and using wxPython, I found
it kind of lacking in easy-to-read documentation, speed at loading, and
GUI response-time.

So I am looking for an another GUI toolkit that is cross-platform for
Python, and am leaning toward PyQt (PyGTK is kind of dull looking in
comparison). Unfortunately, although TrollTech says Qt is
cross-platform, its license strategy has me a bit confused. So here is
to hoping someone can help...

Objective:
Develop/Write a program for personal use on my Linux using PyQt. Be
able to also run it on Windows.

Questions:
1) Is it legally possible to do that?
2) Do I need to buy a license from TrollTech?
3) Can I create a .exe file for my windows on my Linux and copy it over?
(I would like to develop the program entirely on Linux, but make
executables for other platforms).

Any help would be greatly appreciated. If you guys have another GUI
toolkit for python, then please by all means...

Thx.

Vamsi,

It looks like a less expensive way to develop non commercial Qt 3
programs for Windows may be coming soon.

The "official" Qt3 book is due in February of 2004, and the
included CD will include a non-commerical version of Qt 3.2.1
for Windows (and GPL versions for Linux and Mac). The
book will be $50. Here is a link to the announcement in
the qt-interest mailing list:
http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-interest/2003-10/thread01344-0.html

From other discussion on the mailing list, it appears that
you will be able to distribute the Qt runtime DLLs with
your non commerical application if you buy the book.
Here's the mailing list thread for that (see message 13
in particular):
http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-interest/2003-11/thread00225-0.html

Of course, I have no idea what the relationship between this
non-commercial version of Qt and PyQt will be.


Rob

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with Trolltech (except as a
commerical licensee of the Linux and Mac versions) or the
authors or publishers of the book.

 

[Phil Thompson]

[Phil]

Functionally BlackAdder PyQt is based on the Professional Edition of Qt
(plus a couple of extras - see theKompany website for details). "Normal"
PyQt is based on the Enterprise Edition (which is the same as the GPL
version) plus QScintilla support.

So if I buy BlackAdder, I don't get QScintilla? Someone's website, yours
or the Kompany's, should really make that clear (unless I've missed it; I
can't check theirs because it seems to be down at the moment).

theKompany website makes it fairly clear what's included. Obviously it doesn't
document what's not included ;-)

Can I add a QScintilla licence to the package, and if so, at what extra
cost on top of the $400 for BlackAdder?

No.

Phil

 

[email9898989]

Qt for Linux is GPL'd, so nothing prevents you from selling your
software for Linux - you do have to provide source code though
and can't charge for Qt/PyQt/etc.

Sorry I wasn't crystal clear. If you plan to develop commercial
software on any platform, you have to pay for Qt. I was trying to
make their pricing schemes more easy for people to understand.

PyKDE has been able to import KParts for at least a year. PyKDE
currently doesn't allow you to export (author) KParts in Python,
although the ability to do this is essentially complete and
mostly just needs to be integrated with the PyKDE distribution.

I know, I was meaning create KParts. The point is that PyQt & PyKDE
can do on Linux everything wxPython can do on Windows, and more (using
Qt Designer, and soon creating KParts with PyQt).
But if you want to develop for both platforms, you can either use
wxPython for free, but it uses GTK on Linux instead of Qt, or pay for
Qt on Windows, the commercial version of which can embed ActiveX
controls on Windows too.

 

[Richie Hindle]

[Rob]

The "official" Qt3 book is due in February of 2004, and the
included CD will include a non-commerical version of Qt 3.2.1
for Windows [...] it appears that you will be able to distribute
the Qt runtime DLLs with your non commerical application [...]

This is great news for people who want to develop free Windows software
with Qt. Phil, do you yet know whether PyQt Non-Commercial will support
this version of Qt?

 

[email9898989]

The "official" Qt3 book is due in February of 2004, and the

included CD will include a non-commerical version of Qt 3.2.1
for Windows [...] it appears that you will be able to distribute
the Qt runtime DLLs with your non commerical application [...]

So if I just want to make free software that works cross-platform, I'd
have to buy this crappy C++ book to get a special restricted version
of Qt3 for Windows that may or may not work with Python. This is
ridiculous.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=]

The "official" Qt3 book is due in February of 2004, and the
included CD will include a non-commerical version of Qt 3.2.1
for Windows [...] it appears that you will be able to distribute
the Qt runtime DLLs with your non commerical application [...]

So if I just want to make free software that works cross-platform, I'd
have to buy this crappy C++ book to get a special restricted version
of Qt3 for Windows that may or may not work with Python. This is
ridiculous.

If that's what you want ("make free software that works cross-platform")
you're probably better off using an alternative GUI toolkit.

-- Gerhard

 

[Phil Thompson]

[Rob]

The "official" Qt3 book is due in February of 2004, and the
included CD will include a non-commerical version of Qt 3.2.1
for Windows [...] it appears that you will be able to distribute
the Qt runtime DLLs with your non commerical application [...]

This is great news for people who want to develop free Windows software
with Qt. Phil, do you yet know whether PyQt Non-Commercial will support
this version of Qt?

I usually follow what Trolltech do, which means that I'll probably look at
selling a CD with a compatible version of PyQt on it.

Phil

 

[Cameron Laird]

The "official" Qt3 book is due in February of 2004, and the
included CD will include a non-commerical version of Qt 3.2.1
for Windows [...] it appears that you will be able to distribute
the Qt runtime DLLs with your non commerical application [...]

So if I just want to make free software that works cross-platform, I'd
have to buy this crappy C++ book to get a special restricted version
of Qt3 for Windows that may or may not work with Python. This is
ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

If you think *that*'s ridiculous ... well, I expect IT will endlessly amuse you.

 

[Jim Bublitz]

The "official" Qt3 book is due in February of 2004, and the
included CD will include a non-commerical version of Qt 3.2.1
for Windows [...] it appears that you will be able to
distribute the Qt runtime DLLs with your non commerical
application [...]

So if I just want to make free software that works
cross-platform, I'd have to buy this crappy C++ book to get a
special restricted version
of Qt3 for Windows that may or may not work with Python. This
is ridiculous.

If that's what you want ("make free software that works
cross-platform") you're probably better off using an
alternative GUI toolkit.

Or a smaller value of "cross-platform".

Jim

 

[Jarek Zgoda]

Sorry I wasn't crystal clear. If you plan to develop commercial
software on any platform, you have to pay for Qt. I was trying to
make their pricing schemes more easy for people to understand.

Don't spread FUD. You don't have to pay for Qt if you distribute it
under GNU Public License. Even commercially. You can earn money for your
software and you have nothing to pay to Trolltech if this is GPL-ed
software. They can say anything, but it's GPL, they just can not impose
such restriction.

I think somebody at FSF should take closer look at statements that can
be found on Trolltech website -- they are misleading at least.

 

[JanC]

Somebody's trying to develop a GPL version of Qt that runs under Windows
(with cygwin, specifically for the purpose of using KDE on cygwin)

They are working on a non-Cygwin port too (should compile on VC++ & MinGW),
but that might take longer to complete...

 

[email9898989]

Don't spread FUD. You don't have to pay for Qt if you distribute it
under GNU Public License. Even commercially. You can earn money for your
software and you have nothing to pay to Trolltech if this is GPL-ed
software. They can say anything, but it's GPL, they just can not impose
such restriction.

That is incorrect. You DO have to play them if you want your app to
run _on any platform_ (i.e., Linux AND Windows), regardless if it is
GPL licensed, free, commercial, or whatever.

 

[Jim Bublitz]

That is incorrect. You DO have to play them if you want your
app to run _on any platform_ (i.e., Linux AND Windows),
regardless if it is GPL licensed, free, commercial, or
whatever.

*Somebody* has to pay for Qt libs/PyQt to be used on Windows -
not necessarily the author/distributor, if the end-user already
has a license.

The point Jarek and I are making is that since the Linux versions
of both Qt and PyQt are GPL'd, *nobody* has to buy a Qt or PyQt
license to run on Linux (or OSX, or other *nix as far as I
know). Also, there's nothing stopping you from charging for your
software in that case, or for Qt or PyQt, but you do have to
provide source code at no charge. As far as commercial use, you
only have to make source code available *if you distribute* the
software - that wouldn't apply to strictly internal use.

As long as "cross-platform" doesn't include Windows, you can
write cross-platform code with Qt and PyQt and no one has to buy
a license. A Windows version would require licenses for Qt and
PyQt.

Jim