Ruby-Lang Redesign Feedback

J

John W. Long

At about 4 this afternoon we are going to commence discussion of the
Ruby-Lang redesign on the vit-discuss mailing-list:

http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/vit-discuss

This won't be a nit-picking session, but we are looking for feedback
about the content of the new Web site. If you want to participate,
subscribe to the list above.

Please DO NOT respond to this e-mail message with suggestions for the
new Web site. We would like to monitor feedback in one location (the
vit-discuss mailing list).

If you haven't seen the new design already, you might enjoy browsing
through it here:

http://new.ruby-lang.org/
 
K

Kyrre Nygård

Hello, I hope this feedback is of at least some value:

On http://redhanded.hobix.com/redesign2005/

The design metaphor of the new Ruby website should be `usability'
(which the existing website could easily fulfill if it is subjected
to some natural selection) and not `inexperienced decoration' -- Ruby
is the most usable programming language available today so anything
related to it should also shine with usability all the way through,
in order to keep Ruby's identity consistent. Learn from the masters:
http://www.nngroup.com

The layout has a lot of uncontrolled gradients, which is completely
meaningless. It seems to have no other meaning rather than to `look
pretty', however it fails in that too -- I've asked a few trained
eyes and they feel the layout is structured like the workings of a
confused architecture student struggling through his first year, and
the gradient is bevelling out like a badly constructed 3D animation.
As a rule of thumb, when inexperienced designers try to create
advanced designs just to achieve that extra wow-factor, the result
will always be disappointing.

Also, the big giant Ruby in the Ruby logo is way too much, isn't it?
A logo is meant to be `the world in compressed form' and should be as
minimal as possible and carry an intelligent twist which makes it
both cool and unique. Look at the book `Tres Logos' for world class
examples:
http://www.die-gestalten.de/books/detail?id=be0db8100aeaffa2010b1ef5c969002e

I hope I didn't offend the author of the redesign. But if he's a good
designer, he won't feel offended.

All the best,
Kyrre
 
J

James Edward Gray II

Hello, I hope this feedback is of at least some value:

On http://redhanded.hobix.com/redesign2005/

The design metaphor of the new Ruby website should be =20
`usability' (which the existing website could easily fulfill if it =20
is subjected to some natural selection) and not `inexperienced =20
decoration' -- Ruby is the most usable programming language =20
available today so anything related to it should also shine with =20
usability all the way through, in order to keep Ruby's identity =20
consistent. Learn from the masters: http://www.nngroup.com

The layout has a lot of uncontrolled gradients, which is completely =20=
meaningless. It seems to have no other meaning rather than to `look =20=
pretty', however it fails in that too -- I've asked a few trained =20
eyes and they feel the layout is structured like the workings of a =20
confused architecture student struggling through his first year, =20
and the gradient is bevelling out like a badly constructed 3D =20
animation. As a rule of thumb, when inexperienced designers try to =20
create advanced designs just to achieve that extra wow-factor, the =20
result will always be disappointing.

Also, the big giant Ruby in the Ruby logo is way too much, isn't =20
it? A logo is meant to be `the world in compressed form' and should =20=
be as minimal as possible and carry an intelligent twist which =20
makes it both cool and unique. Look at the book `Tres Logos' for =20
world class examples: http://www.die-gestalten.de/books/detail?=20
id=3Dbe0db8100aeaffa2010b1ef5c969002e

We look forward to your site design submission and will definitely =20
evaluate the possibility of switching to it when it shows up.

James Edward Gray II
 
C

Chad Perrin

=20
The design metaphor of the new Ruby website should be `usability'=20
(which the existing website could easily fulfill if it is subjected=20
to some natural selection) and not `inexperienced decoration' -- Ruby=20
is the most usable programming language available today so anything=20
related to it should also shine with usability all the way through,=20
in order to keep Ruby's identity consistent. Learn from the masters:=20
http://www.nngroup.com

I've been reading their stuff for years, and you're right -- these
people know what they're talking about. On the other hand, do what they
say, not what they do. That website has always been an eyesore.
Usability need not be synonymous with "fugly". Also, despite the
expertise behind these people, they suffer from an apparent inability to
follow their own advice all the time: at first glance, I see a few
violations of their own principles right there on the first page.

As for the rest, you make some points, but to be accurate their wattage
needs to be reduced about 50%. Yes, the logo should be adjusted, but
the size of the ruby isn't an unmitigated disaster. Yes, the "pretty
factor" is a little more than necessary, but it's not overwhelmingly
bad.

Frankly, there are really only two things about the appearance of the
design to be really examined, as far as I can see:

1. Is there anything about the design that's simply gratuitous? Go
through every single design decision and, for each one, ask yourself
whether it could be scaled back without losing anything.

2. Why the heck doesn't it take advantage of the entire width of the
user's browser? I seem to recall that the design had a fixed width,
while the "old" design has a width that varies with browser window
size. I could be wrong (and the new design is gone now so that I
can't double-check), but if it's not a fixed width I think it probably
at least has a bit too much of a trough on either side of the main
content area.

That's not to say that text should be bleeding off the sides, of course.
Keep the width of the content area narrow enough in comparison to the
screen width to make it appear to be a cohesive package. Just don't
waste screen real estate as the browser gets resized.

=20
I hope I didn't offend the author of the redesign. But if he's a good=20
designer, he won't feel offended.

. . even when you said he was obviously some kind of inferior amateur
because a good designer would never have made such errors? I understand
your intent, but it could probably have been delivered a little more
diplomatically.

--=20
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ]
"It's just incredible that a trillion-synapse computer could actually
spend Saturday afternoon watching a football game." - Marvin Minsky
 
J

James Britt

John said:
As I asked before, please have this discussion over on vit-discuss:

http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/vit-discuss

At dinner recently with a gang of Rubyists, someone mentioned that
they've used this as an employment screen. Their company would post an
announcement of a job opening on a mailing list, and clearly ask that
people NOT post resumes back to the list, but instead contact the
company directly.

Those who could not follow this basic request were deemed unsuitable for
employment.
 
C

Chad Perrin

At dinner recently with a gang of Rubyists, someone mentioned that
they've used this as an employment screen. Their company would post an
announcement of a job opening on a mailing list, and clearly ask that
people NOT post resumes back to the list, but instead contact the
company directly.

Those who could not follow this basic request were deemed unsuitable for
employment.

Considering my reply was to someone's overenthusiastic critique, and was
not specifically intended as a contribution to the new design, and
considering I'm not seeking employment, I think that veiled insult
misses the mark. Thanks for playing, though.
 
J

James Britt

Chad said:
Considering my reply was to someone's overenthusiastic critique, and was
not specifically intended as a contribution to the new design, and
considering I'm not seeking employment, I think that veiled insult
misses the mark.

Nothing veiled, no mark to miss; there was no insult intended.
Different situations, as you described. It merely brought to mind how
such requests have varying degrees of purpose.
Thanks for playing, though.

Thanks for bringing the cards.
 
D

darren kirby

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quoth the James Britt:
At dinner recently with a gang of Rubyists, someone mentioned that
they've used this as an employment screen. Their company would post an
announcement of a job opening on a mailing list, and clearly ask that
people NOT post resumes back to the list, but instead contact the
company directly.

Those who could not follow this basic request were deemed unsuitable for
employment.

It is human-nature to post responses here. Place a semi-valuable object in=
=20
some public space with a note in big letters that says "DON'T touch this" a=
nd=20
see how long it takes to disappear.=20

A job announcement is a service to us, soliciting feedback is a service to =
=20
them (ie: site designers). While I can appreciate that the site designers=20
want the discussion centralized I think that if they want "feedback about t=
he=20
content of the new Web site" they should make it easy for folks to do so. A=
s=20
in, don't require them to join a totally separate mailing list, presumably=
=20
temporarily, just to give the feedback THEY are soliciting.

2 cents...

=2Dd
=2D-=20
darren kirby :: Part of the problem since 1976 :: http://badcomputer.org
"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
=2D Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972

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E

Elliot Temple

quoth the James Britt:

It is human-nature to post responses here. Place a semi-valuable
object in
some public space with a note in big letters that says "DON'T touch
this" and
see how long it takes to disappear.

A job announcement is a service to us, soliciting feedback is a
service to
them (ie: site designers).

Heh. I don't think companies post (and often pay for) job ads as a
public service.


-- Elliot Temple
http://www.curi.us/blog/
 
D

darren kirby

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quoth the Elliot Temple:
Heh. I don't think companies post (and often pay for) job ads as a
public service.

Of course not, and I realize that it helps an employer as much as a=20
job-seeker, my point is that a job posting quite different then asking for=
=20
(free) feedback on something...

=2Dd
=2D-=20
darren kirby :: Part of the problem since 1976 :: http://badcomputer.org
"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
=2D Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972

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H

Hal Fulton

darren said:
It is human-nature to post responses here. Place a semi-valuable object in
some public space with a note in big letters that says "DON'T touch this" and
see how long it takes to disappear.

A job announcement is a service to us, soliciting feedback is a service to
them (ie: site designers). While I can appreciate that the site designers
want the discussion centralized I think that if they want "feedback about the
content of the new Web site" they should make it easy for folks to do so. As
in, don't require them to join a totally separate mailing list, presumably
temporarily, just to give the feedback THEY are soliciting.

2 cents...

Agreed. In fact, I think despite their request, it's still permissible
to discuss the design here (with the caveat that the designers may not
see it).

Free speech, and all that.

But of course, if you are talking *to the designers*, you should discuss
in the place they requested.

On top of that, discussion is sometimes mixed with meta-discussion. ;)


Hal
 
W

why the lucky stiff

Those who could not follow this basic request were deemed unsuitable for
employment.

I have hired every one of those people. And wouldn't you know it -- they make
delicious pork pies.

_why
 
H

Hal Fulton

why said:
I have hired every one of those people. And wouldn't you know it -- they make
delicious pork pies.

How delightfully ambiguous. Like the old headline
"Grandmother of Five Shoots Hole in One" or "Man
Dies -- Cooked for Queen".


Hal
 
R

Rich Morin

How delightfully ambiguous. Like the old headline
"Grandmother of Five Shoots Hole in One" or "Man
Dies -- Cooked for Queen".

Tom Christiansen (of Perl fame) likes this example of
why the "Oxford comma" is important:

I'd like to thank my parents, God and Mother Teresa.

-r
--
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume (e-mail address removed)
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development
 

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