testing web page compatibility with older browsers

A

anadashmaria

Needless to say I'm new. I have designed a webapge using Frontpage
2003 and have viewed it with the latest Mozilla Firefox and IE. The
page looks OK to me. Other people tho insist that some text at the top
of the page appears large and overlayed with itself. I assume this is
due to their using older browsers at the very least and not refreshing
the page at the most. How do I make sure my website looks good with
some reasonable amount of varied and older browsers?
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

http://www.toscanadayspanewbury.com/

once you click this logo the top of the page (and probably every
subsequent page since the format is an exact copy)

Ugh! 67Kb of M$ BS instead of markup. Looks more like a MS Publisher or
Word creation than FrontPage. Your problem is not *old* browser but the
brittle inflexible manner in which FrontPage has positioned everything
on your page. Increase font size even one increment and everything falls
apart.

Hint to fix remove all "position: absolute"
 
A

Adrienne Boswell

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed (e-mail address removed) writing in
http://www.toscanadayspanewbury.com/

once you click this logo the top of the page (and probably every
subsequent page since the format is an exact copy)

Well, I must say, it looks really nice with the pale blue background -
or wait, that's because you did not set the page background color, and
assumed that everyone chooses a white background for their window
background color.

I looked at http://www.toscanadayspanewbury.com/newbury.htm

There are 144 markup errors and 2 warnings - http://tinyurl.com/dd7bf9

This might be the worst markup I have ever seen. The first 1710 lines
are all Microsoft BS, that your editor kindly spat out.

Here are my suggestions:
1. Get rid of FrontPage - seriously, delete it from your system and do
not attempt to reinstall it.
2. Read some good HTML markup tutorials - Brucie had a good list a while
back, it's available at http://tinyurl.com/cllguw . Just scroll down to
the list.
3. Start over.
 
C

C A Upsdell

Needless to say I'm new. I have designed a webapge using Frontpage
2003 and have viewed it with the latest Mozilla Firefox and IE. The
page looks OK to me. Other people tho insist that some text at the top
of the page appears large and overlayed with itself. I assume this is
due to their using older browsers at the very least and not refreshing
the page at the most. How do I make sure my website looks good with
some reasonable amount of varied and older browsers?

Microsoft killed FrontPage over 2 years ago, and it has long been
obsolete, generating broken code designed for broken browsers.
Microsoft's current equivalent product is Expression Web.

Dump FrontPage. AFAIK Microsoft will sell Expression Web at an upgrade
price if you have a legal copy of FrontPage. There are several
alternatives. Or you could hand code, as I and many others do.

You should also find a good book on learning HTML and CSS.

You should also install a number of today's browsers, for test purposes:
at the very minimum Firefox 2, Firefox 3, Opera 9, Safari 3, and
Internet Explorer 6, 7, and 8 RC1. Perhaps also IE 5.01. Perhaps also
Chrome if your pages use JavaScript. Note that installing multiple
versions of IE will be tricky, because Windows only supports one version
at a time. For more about this, see
http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/res_testing.htm#d02
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

C said:
Internet Explorer 6, 7, and 8 RC1. Perhaps also IE 5.01. Perhaps also
Chrome if your pages use JavaScript. Note that installing multiple
versions of IE will be tricky, because Windows only supports one version
at a time. For more about this, see
http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/res_testing.htm#d02

Technically yes for full versions from MS, but there have been many
folks who have packaged standalone versions that will work on Windows
(NOT Vista). The TredoSoft package bundles IE3-6 and without the
problems that you list on your page. Conditional comments work and I can
run all at once without problems...

http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE
Install multiple versions of IE on your PC | TredoSoft
 
A

anadashmaria

Hint to fix remove all "position: absolute"


Thanks to the people who are helping and no thanks to those that are
using this opportunity to make fun.

I did remove all the instances on the newbury.htm page but then the
entire layout was damaged.
Then I undid it and just removed the position:absolute on the Title
where the problem was happenning and that made the "toscana european
day spa" disappear all together.

Can you be a little more specific?

I don't particularly like coding. I like a GUI much better at layout
etc. I am going to learn some more advanced stuff... but for now I
need to fix THIS page.
 
R

rf

Thanks to the people who are helping and no thanks to those that are
using this opportunity to make fun.

Nobody made any fun. Several people quite seriously told you to dump
frontpage, which is good advice.

I don't particularly like coding. I like a GUI much better at layout
etc. I am going to learn some more advanced stuff... but for now I
need to fix THIS page.

You will never fix this page while you persist in letting frontpage stuff it
up for you. Starting from scratch would be a better idea.
 
A

anadashmaria

Ed,

Do you mind looking at the /newbury.htm page again. I made that change
but there is no way for me to know if it worked unless I install all
the browsers.
It will be a temporary fix if it works and I'll apply it to the rest
of the pages. Thanks!!!!!!
 
D

David Segall

Needless to say I'm new. I have designed a webapge using Frontpage
2003 and have viewed it with the latest Mozilla Firefox and IE. The
page looks OK to me. Other people tho insist that some text at the top
of the page appears large and overlayed with itself. I assume this is
due to their using older browsers at the very least and not refreshing
the page at the most. How do I make sure my website looks good with
some reasonable amount of varied and older browsers?

<http://browsershots.org/>
 
N

Nik Coughlin

I don't particularly like coding. I like a GUI much better at layout
etc. I am going to learn some more advanced stuff... but for now I
need to fix THIS page.

If you're going to insist on using a WYSI(sn't)WYG (ie GUI) tool then use
something decent. The successor to Frontpage is Expression and there is a
30 day free trial available. Otherwise I believe that the newer versions of
Dreamweaver are OK.

Also you might be interested in this:

http://browsershots.org/
 
R

rf


If you are talking to Ed then why are you replying to me? Oh, I see, you are
using that stupidly broken web interface to usenet. Get yourself a
newsreader and do it properly.
Do you mind looking at the /newbury.htm page again. I made that change
but there is no way for me to know if it worked unless I install all
the browsers.

This page is now broken when using Internet Explorer versions 5.5, 6 and 7,
Netscape, Seamonkey, Firefox, Safari and Chrome. It is very broken when
using Opera.
It will be a temporary fix if it works and I'll apply it to the rest
of the pages.

You will not be able to fix that page until you stop using frontpage and get
rid of all that non-standard crap it put in there.
 
C

Chaddy2222

If you are talking to Ed then why are you replying to me? Oh, I see, you are
using that stupidly broken web interface to usenet. Get yourself a
newsreader and do it properly.


This page is now broken when using Internet Explorer versions 5.5, 6 and 7,
Netscape, Seamonkey, Firefox, Safari and Chrome. It is very broken when
using Opera.


You will not be able to fix that page until you stop using frontpage and get
rid of all that non-standard crap it put in there.
Yeah. Install KompoZer from kompozer.net and start your page all over
again. But read http://htmldog.com first. Use a text editor and do the
tutorials, grab a copy of Crimson editor from crimsoneditor.com
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Ed said:
It is not an issue of older browsers. Look at these screen captures
of /current/ browsers:
<snip>

Might as well add a screenshot from Opera...
http://tekrider.net/usenet/opera-963.jpg

While the source indicates FrontPlague, I seem to remember there was an
MS Publisher template which included that 'footnote' section with
useless vertical bar in the middle. But that was centuries ago...

The header "<meta name" elements are incorrectly structured.

I find the initial gateway page both annoying and useless. :)
 
B

Bergamot

Ed said:
As I increase text size in Firefox and SeaMonkey the container of the
top text does not increase. In IE7 it does.

Why this is happening I can't say.

I assume you are doing CTRL+, intending to increase the text size. CTRL+
does a page zoom in IE7, not text zoom. Use the View menu to change just
the text size in IE.
 
A

Andy Dingley

I don't particularly like coding.

Then employ someone who does.

You are trying to do something (or at least to make use of something)
that's so technically difficult there simply isn't a good product
available to do it with: purely WYSIWYG drag-and-drop design of web
pages. You're also using a tool that's years old, thoroughly obsolete
and was infamously broken when new. This just isn't going to work.

What you'd like to do is to use a good tool to generate a good page
with little effort, and that little would be spent in working through
a GUI. You can't do this - there aren't any tools like that which are
particularly good. Most good web designers, most people reading
c.i.w.a.h, have stopped looking for them and set to doing it by hand-
coding instead.

As things currently stand, hand-coding is the way to build sites that
work cross-browser and are accesible. Using the GUI tools means a
compromise. It's not a terrible compromise - there are some open
source tools that are usable for it (try KompoZer). If you think that
paying money makes the toosl better, then you could even put up with M
$oft Expression.

Frontpage is execrable. Just don't go there.


Before you start, you need to learn some web design. There are very
few books on this that are any good, and almost no web sites. Two
pretty good books are "Head First Web Design" and "Head First HTML
with CSS & XHTML". You might argue that you shouldn't need to buy a
book (which is cheap) before you dive into using your $hundreds worth
of software. Well maybe not, but don't complain to us, we didn't
charge you for the software and we didn't write FrontPage. We just
build web sites that work, and we tell other people how to do it too.
Some people even listen.

There are issues in using your GUI design tool that aren't obvious.
The Head First books cover most of them. So even if you're not
planning to do any hand-coding, even if you're outsourcing it all to
someone else, reading these two books will make you smarter at buying
those services and will lead to a better web site.

You should also read Joe Clark's web accessibility book (free on-line)
 
R

richard

Needless to say I'm new. I have designed a webapge using Frontpage
2003 and have viewed it with the latest Mozilla Firefox and IE. The
page looks OK to me. Other people tho insist that some text at the top
of the page appears large and overlayed with itself. I assume this is
due to their using older browsers at the very least and not refreshing
the page at the most. How do I make sure my website looks good with
some reasonable amount of varied and older browsers?


Most of the time that happens due mainly to YOUR screen resolution.
e.g. you have yours set to 1280x and the web page looks just fine to
you.
Then along comes some nitwit who refuses to upgrade to something more
modern and whines and complains.
I learned my lesson. When I do a web page I change my screen to at
least 1024x so that I can see how it will look to others who might not
have the newer monitors.

Front Page, any version, was never a viable way to do a web page.
While it may look good and function, coding is crap.

Get yourself a decent editor. I use acehtml free and have never had a
problem with it.

Then as you work on your pages, run them through the validator at
w3.org and correct the errors.
http://validator.w3.org/
Doing so will also help you to learn.
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

richard said:
I learned my lesson. When I do a web page I change my screen to at
least 1024x so that I can see how it will look to others who might
not have the newer monitors.

Why don't you just change the size of your browser window?
 

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