[Web 2.0] Added-value of frameworks?

G

Gilles Ganault

Hello

If I wanted to build some social web site such as Facebook, what do
frameworks like Django or TurboGears provide over writing a site from
scratch using Python?

Thank you for your feedback.
 
M

Matimus

Hello

If I wanted to build some social web site such as Facebook, what do
frameworks like Django or TurboGears provide over writing a site from
scratch using Python?

Thank you for your feedback.

Why not just look at the frameworks themselves and see what they have
to offer. Django and Turbogears both have pretty good tutorials. You
can be up and running in 20 minutes with each one. You be the judge.

The frameworks provide a lot of boilerplate code that I would rather
not write. They are probably more secure and scalable than something I
would come up with. You also get many extras for free. I think in both
of the frameworks you mention you get an administrative back end for
free. Other people have created apps/plugins that you can use with
those frameworks. So, for example, you might be able to borrow the
code to help you add a forum to your site.

I'm not sure I know the advantage of not using a framework. Unless "I
get to write more code" is an advantage. Creating your own framework
might be fun, but if you really just want a website don't do more work
than you need to.

Matt
 
J

J Kenneth King

Matimus said:
Why not just look at the frameworks themselves and see what they have
to offer. Django and Turbogears both have pretty good tutorials. You
can be up and running in 20 minutes with each one. You be the judge.

The frameworks provide a lot of boilerplate code that I would rather
not write. They are probably more secure and scalable than something I
would come up with. You also get many extras for free. I think in both
of the frameworks you mention you get an administrative back end for
free. Other people have created apps/plugins that you can use with
those frameworks. So, for example, you might be able to borrow the
code to help you add a forum to your site.

I'm not sure I know the advantage of not using a framework. Unless "I
get to write more code" is an advantage. Creating your own framework
might be fun, but if you really just want a website don't do more work
than you need to.

Matt

In other words, it boils down to what you get paid to do.

If you're being paid for a frob (the product, in this case a website)
then you use a frob-maker (a framework).

If you're being paid to make frobs, then you make the frob-maker.

Most frob-makers are good at producing frobs of a certain kind. Just
choose the frob-maker that makes the frobs you need.

In rare circumstances you'll need a really customized frob. Call on me
when you get there. ;)
 
B

Bruno Desthuilliers

Gilles Ganault a écrit :
Hello

If I wanted to build some social web site such as Facebook, what do
frameworks like Django or TurboGears provide over writing a site from
scratch using Python?

Quite a lot of abstractions and factorisation of the boilerplate code, a
known way to organize your application, and possibly a good integration
of the usual components (and wrt/ Django, a customizable yet fairly
usable OOTB admin interface). For simple to mediumly complex
applications, this can mean more than 80% of the grunt work. The
counterpart is mostly learning and understanding the framework, which
means you may not save that much time on a first project - but it can
really pay off then. One of my coworker started this morning a (really
simple...) project which acceptance tests are to begin on monday, and we
are all quite confident he'll deliver on time, thanks to Django.
 
J

J Kenneth King

Bruno Desthuilliers said:
Gilles Ganault a écrit :

Quite a lot of abstractions and factorisation of the boilerplate code,
a known way to organize your application, and possibly a good
integration of the usual components (and wrt/ Django, a customizable
yet fairly usable OOTB admin interface). For simple to mediumly
complex applications, this can mean more than 80% of the grunt
work. The counterpart is mostly learning and understanding the
framework, which means you may not save that much time on a first
project - but it can really pay off then. One of my coworker started
this morning a (really simple...) project which acceptance tests are
to begin on monday, and we are all quite confident he'll deliver on
time, thanks to Django.

Well the big negative is when you application design starts expanding
past the framework design. A percolator makes a decent cup of coffee but
it really isn't meant for making fancy lattes. This is where the 90/10
rule will catch you if you're not careful.

"90% of the effort will be spent on the last 10% of the work."
 

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