What percent of Java developers use Eclipse?

[Mickey Segal]

http://info-pollution.com/false.htm

http://www.nist.gov/dads/HTML/or.html

 

[steve]

Maybe its better now. When I used to use JDeveloper is was very, very,
very slow.

-Robert

you need to give it a lot of memory, like any java ide.

but it is not that slow, i use it on my portable & desktop with little
problem.

 

[bugbear]

That was a good page, good poltical ammo for my republican
adversaries.

But onto IDEs. Your forth point is the key. There are people that
learned the intricacies of their IDEs that they don't want to give that
up.

All training costs(in the general sense of thw word "cost")
must be justified by return.

BugBear

 

[Ed]

"8x savings in time"

That's a phenomenal saving, even if it is specific for your line of
work.

If Eclipse can do this, then it's clearly an indispensable tool.

..ed

 

[Ed]

Yeah, good point.

Perhaps personality has a lot to do with this. I'm a bit of a
minimalist; I like the idea of minimising the time it takes to build a
programming environment from scratch. I don't use IDEs, I use the basic
unintegrated environment: the javac and java tools, and emacs. I don't
even particularly like emacs, but it's fairly OS-independent, and you
can live with it if you learn the Top-7 key-combinations.

I suppose I'm a do-it-the-hard-way dinosaur. Oliver Wong gave a great
post on why he likes about Eclipse: Continuous compilation, Source code
navigation, Error highlighting, and Refactoring; and when I see all of
them I just can't help thinking that they are ..."Impure," is probably
the closest word I can think of. Actually, my programming persona is
not a minimialist as much as a ascetist. There, I've said it. I feel
that not using all those undoubtedly helpful, cost-saving toollets
helps me write better code.

Hope my boss doesn't read this.

..ed

 

[Chris Uppal]

Yeah, good point.

What was ?

The request that Usenet posters quote appropriately from the posts to which
they are replying is not just waffle. It really serves a purpose. In this
case I have no idea what you are talking about -- so your time spent saying it
has been wasted (at least on me). I /guess/ that you are thinking of BugBear's
outing of the false dichotomy, but...

I suppose I'm a do-it-the-hard-way dinosaur. Oliver Wong gave a great
post on why he likes about Eclipse: Continuous compilation, Source code
navigation, Error highlighting, and Refactoring;

Though it's worth pointing out that the big gains that Oliver mentioned came
about because they had the sense to build tools to help with their work.
Eclipse may well have made it easier (for Oliver) to build those tools in the
first place, but the tools themselves should get the bulk of the credit for the
resulting gains. If I write a tool which allows me to complete a task in a
month that would otherwise take a year, and if my choice of IDE enables me to
create that tool in one week rather than two, then the savings due to the IDE
are one week, not (almost) 11 months...

and when I see all of
them I just can't help thinking that they are ..."Impure," is probably
the closest word I can think of. Actually, my programming persona is
not a minimialist as much as a ascetist. There, I've said it.

I feel
that not using all those undoubtedly helpful, cost-saving toollets
helps me write better code.

I feel that most of the tinsel is, in fact, just that -- tinsel. A distraction
from the real work, even if it does help with the physical task of typing the
code in (and debugging and so on).

-- chris

 

[Robert M. Gary]

Could you please tell how did you run the jboss in eclipse???

http://www.jboss.com/products/jbosside/downloads

From the drop down menu select "JBoss Eclipse IDE Downloads"

-Robert

 

[Richard Wheeldon]

FWIW, vi.

Emacs Makes All Computing Simple !

Richard

 

[Thomas Kellerer]

Robert M. Gary wrote on 17.01.2006 23:39:

1) It works out of the box. Putting together all the dependancies for
what you want in Eclipse is a monster task

That's why I use NetBeans. Download 50MB unzip it, and off you go with
creating Web applications and Swing stuff with full support.

When I last tried this with Eclipse the download for the Web module
alone was bigger then the entire NetBeans download

Thomas

 

[Daniel Dyer]

Emacs Makes All Computing Simple !

Richard

Shouldn't that be Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift? Elsewhere Maybe All
Commands are Simple.

Dan.

 

[Richard Wheeldon]

Shouldn't that be Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift? Elsewhere Maybe All
Commands are Simple.

I know it's Generally Not Used Except by Middle Aged Computer
Scientists, but I like it. The key combinations are mostly the
same as the bash defaults so are familiar to many Unix users.
Or put the other way, bash shortcuts are familiar to Emacs users,

It also has the huge advantage over most IDEs of being able to
run remotely and in console windows and telnet/ssh sessions,

Richard

 

[opalpa]

I've downloaded and installed Eclipse three times. Each of those times
it was off my computer within 24 hours. Each of those times I
performed one test: I tried to import a non-trivial project's sources
into Eclipse (say something with 200 java files spread across some
packages). Each time Eclipse froze unrecoverably.

I've not tried this in a year, or so, can someone attest to the
maturity of Eclipse's project import feature?

Another item, I am not willing to spend very much time configuring up
front. I want a little work done leading to a little benefit. Is
there a document that gets one going, maybe more specifically gets a
long time vi user, going with reasonable settings for Java development?

Most of my Java projects are managed with hand made ant build files.



Opalinski
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.geocities.com/opalpaweb/

 

[Thomas Kellerer]

Most of my Java projects are managed with hand made ant build files.

In this case you might want to look into NetBeans. Its project concept
is completely built around ant files, and it can re-use existing build
files. I have to admit that I haven't used that though.

Check out: http://www.netbeans.org/kb/50/import_j2se.html

To see if that qualifies as "I am not willing to spend very much time
configuring up front"

Thomas

 

[Daniel Dyer]

I've downloaded and installed Eclipse three times. Each of those times
it was off my computer within 24 hours. Each of those times I
performed one test: I tried to import a non-trivial project's sources
into Eclipse (say something with 200 java files spread across some
packages). Each time Eclipse froze unrecoverably.

Eclipse's project system is one of the main reasons I haven't tried harder
to get to know it. Whenever I've tried it I've had problems importing
existing projects. Not just freezes but trying to get it to work with the
files laid out the way I want them. Both NetBeans and IDEA are able to
import an existing project folder and work with it without having to
change anything.

Most of my Java projects are managed with hand made ant build files.

With NetBeans just select "Existing project with Ant build file" from the
new project wizard, point it at your build.xml and it will set up your
project automatically, configuring the source and build directories and
attaching the appropriate Ant targets to its build/run menu items.

Dan.

 

[IchBin]

[snip]
It also has the huge advantage over most IDEs of being able to
run remotely and in console windows and telnet/ssh sessions,

Richard

I use Eclipse mostly and some time in Netbeans and JDeveloper.

Netbeans has a feature that came out in 1.4 interesting project called
Collaboration Project.

http://collab.netbeans.org/index.html

They have a demo and a flash link. For some reason the flash link is
broken and I was just in there the other day. Anyway take a peek if you
have not seen before.


hanks in Advance...
IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA
http://weconsultants.servebeer.com/JHackerAppManager
__________________________________________________________________________

'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"'
-William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-)

 

[bugbear]

I'm a bit of a
minimalist; I like the idea of minimising the time it takes to build a
programming environment from scratch.

Our company is now into it's 12th man year on a project.

The set up time for the environment on this
project would have to be MASSIVE for it to matter at all.

It wouldn't matter wether it was 1 hour or 2 weeks, if
there was a return (in functionality) over the man-year
life of the project.

I guess if one were always doing small projects the
set up overhead would matter more.

BugBear

 

[Oliver Wong]

I've downloaded and installed Eclipse three times. Each of those times
it was off my computer within 24 hours. Each of those times I
performed one test: I tried to import a non-trivial project's sources
into Eclipse (say something with 200 java files spread across some
packages). Each time Eclipse froze unrecoverably.

I've not tried this in a year, or so, can someone attest to the
maturity of Eclipse's project import feature?

As a fan of Eclipse, I must say that importing external projects is
still a very painful task. I've never seen Eclipse freeze from importing,
but I've had problems forcing Eclipse to realize that the project I just
imported is indeed a Java project. Recall that Eclipse is, at its core,
language agnostic, and so also supports C, C++, PHP, Ruby, and other
languages, and so when it imports in a project and can not detect the
"nature" of that project, it considers it a plain vanilla project.

- Oliver

 

[Roedy Green]

As a fan of Eclipse, I must say that importing external projects is
still a very painful task

One thing they could do to make import friendlier is tell you what the
target directory of thing you are importing will be and ask you to
confirm that, giving the example of the fully qualified name of the
first file that will be copied. So many times I have imported then
had to go looking for where it put it, and move it to the proper
place.

 

[P.Hill]

Both NetBeans and
IDEA are able to import an existing project folder and work with it
without having to change anything.

In another data point for Chris' 4th -- already trained in one IDE or
super-smart editor and don't have the budget for learning another,
we again find someone pointing out a feature that exists in all
three of the major IDEs.

With NetBeans just select "Existing project with Ant build file" from
the new project wizard,

Ya might want to check with an Eclipse user next time. There is
similar feature in Eclipse.

I continue to cheer all three IDEs just to keep the competition going,
that last thing we need is an IDE monopoly.

-Paul

 

[Daniel Dyer]

In another data point for Chris' 4th -- already trained in one IDE or
super-smart editor and don't have the budget for learning another,
we again find someone pointing out a feature that exists in all
three of the major IDEs.

My point wasn't that it doesn't exist in Eclipse, it was that it doesn't
work very well in Eclipse. In IDEA and NetBeans, it just works, with
Eclipse you have to mess around with workspaces and files. If I import my
build.xml into Eclipse, it copies this into the workspace folder but
doesn't copy the other files. I then open the Ant View, add the build.xml
and run it and it doesn't work because the relative paths are now broken.
In addition, Eclipse doesn't pick up that I am using Java 5, I have to
edit the properties manually.

If I do the same import in NetBeans I don't have to tweak anything. It
leaves the files where they are and the build works first time.

Ya might want to check with an Eclipse user next time. There is
similar feature in Eclipse.

There is a poor implementation of a similar feature. I like an IDE that
will adpat to fit my preferences, not that forces me to adapt to its.

Dan.