Write on <OBJECT type="text/html"> ?

[rf]

I didn't mean that I managed to bring up the pop-up, what I did is that
the page can now detect that the pop-up is terminated and submits the form
in normal way. that is what I meant by "work around" I don't persist on
having a pop-up, I just want the page to be usable for everybody.
didn't your entry submited in normal way ?

When I allow your popup to occur the form is submitted, and even sends back
a response about required fields missed.

When I disallow popups your page does *not* submit the form. I get a
javascript error reported but *nothing* is sent up the wire.

Debugging reveals that the open call in your function send did not execute.
We don't even get to test wheather w is null or closed, the script
terminates.

The script terminates because the open function does many things. It
launches an instance of the browser, sets up a blank page on that browser
and then does a few more things.

The "launch an instance" bit fails. When the open function tries to do its
remaining bits it finds that the browser instance has disappeared, so it has
no option but to break; The full text of the error message is:
<q>
The callee (server [not server application]) is not available and
disappeared; all connections are invalid. The call did not execute.
</q>

Perhaps you should acquire yourself a copy of popup-stopper (it's free) and
do some testing Make sure you run it in its aggressive mode.

BTW am I corrrect in assuming that the reason for all of this skulduggery is
so your viewer stays on the same page after the form submission? If this is
so then AFAIK you could simply send the from as normal and set the
appropriate return code in your server side process.

 

[Spartanicus]

Really!? what browser are you using on which OS?

Irrelevant. I've configured my browser's font settings so that text is
comfortable to read, alas your site interferes with my preference.

I'm using x-small as font
size in CSS and is large enough in many browsers that I checked my page with
them.

Don't assume that others have the same settings and hardware as you.

 

[Arash Dejkam]

I didn't mean that I managed to bring up the pop-up, what I did is that
the page can now detect that the pop-up is terminated and submits the form
in normal way. that is what I meant by "work around" I don't persist on
having a pop-up, I just want the page to be usable for everybody.
didn't your entry submited in normal way ?

When I allow your popup to occur the form is submitted, and even sends back
a response about required fields missed.

When I disallow popups your page does *not* submit the form. I get a
javascript error reported but *nothing* is sent up the wire.

Debugging reveals that the open call in your function send did not execute.
We don't even get to test wheather w is null or closed, the script
terminates.

The script terminates because the open function does many things. It
launches an instance of the browser, sets up a blank page on that browser
and then does a few more things.

The "launch an instance" bit fails. When the open function tries to do its
remaining bits it finds that the browser instance has disappeared, so it has
no option but to break; The full text of the error message is:
<q>
The callee (server [not server application]) is not available and
disappeared; all connections are invalid. The call did not execute.
</q>

Perhaps you should acquire yourself a copy of popup-stopper (it's free) and
do some testing Make sure you run it in its aggressive mode.

BTW am I corrrect in assuming that the reason for all of this skulduggery is
so your viewer stays on the same page after the form submission? If this is
so then AFAIK you could simply send the from as normal and set the
appropriate return code in your server side process.

Richard, I think after a little war we are becoming more friendly )
Actually I downloaded and installed it on my browser (Pop-Up Stopper Basic
V2.40) just after I asked you about your PS, as you know it has an on/off
button on the toolbar, when it's "off" pop-up comes up and the form submits
my way, but when it's "on" it closes the window a little while after it is
created. so I added a timer to check the existance of the window every
200ms. when the checker detects that the window is terminated submits the
original form on the main page and that should take you to another page for
confirmation. this works on my browser. it's very strange that it doesn't
work on yours, maybe you are using a different version of pop-up stopper or
you've set some special options. The form works well on IE, Opera, Mozilla
(which has a built in ps), google toolbar ps, yahoo toolbar ps, even on text
browsers like Lynx with no java script... I think I should give up and write
a big notification that "THIS FORM WILL NOT WORK IF YOU'RE USING PANICWARE
POP-UP STOPPER" )

Thanks,
Arash

 

[Arash Dejkam]

Microfont \Mi`cro*font\ (Tech.)
n 1: Text of an infinitely or immeasurably small size.
2: A miniature bowl for baptismal water.

--

Really!? what browser are you using on which OS? I'm using x-small as font
size in CSS and is large enough in many browsers that I checked my page with
them.

Thanks,
Arash

 

[rf]

I generally love usenet becuase I've learned almost 30% of my skills from it
and it's friendly and giving members in past nearly 8 years. but there is
something that I hate about it and that's replies like this!

<snip rant>

One of the things I hate about usenet is the whingeing that often happens
when a poster gets a comment that does not fit within that posters range of
accecpable comments.

The comment Spartanicus made was, IHMO perfectly acceptable. In fact if the
comment were not made I was going to post something quite similar.

If you don't like the comment then either ignore it or examine the reason
why the comment might have been made. Don't winge about it, it only provokes
flames

"It works on my computer" is one of the most common excuses for doing
something that is either stupid or annoys other people looking at a site and
it is usually a case of font size.

FWIW I think your font is microscopic and totally unreadable.

What OS/browser/settings I have is totally irrelevant. What is relevant is
the fact that at default settings *I can not read it because you have
specified it stupidly small*. So, I have to greatly enlarge what *you* have
specified to be able to read it.

Of course your fixed width "paper like" design means that the design starts
to fall apart when I make my font large enough but that is not my problem
either.

If you had simply set font size at 100%, or left it out completely, then the
font would have been exactly what I *like* to view. If 100% looks too big on
*your* system then adjust *your* settings.

 

[Arash Dejkam]

Irrelevant. I've configured my browser's font settings so that text is
comfortable to read, alas your site interferes with my preference.


Don't assume that others have the same settings and hardware as you.

I generally love usenet becuase I've learned almost 30% of my skills from it
and it's friendly and giving members in past nearly 8 years. but there is
something that I hate about it and that's replies like this! from those who
think they know everything and others know nothing. those who think if they
die, internet will die! I always hope the message is from a teen playing
around and try to dismiss it.
Do you really think I learned something from your reply? oh yes! at least I
learned that there are some cultures in some countries in which politeness
and good social relationship is cursed!
You didn't teach me anything but let me teach you something; your reply
should be something like this:

I use X browser on X OS, but in my opinion this is irrelevant, I've
configured my browser's font ...
I recommend you to do X and do Y to make your font look properly in all
browsers.

Always try to learn something and teach others,

Good luck,
Arash

 

[Webcastmaker]

I generally love usenet becuase I've learned almost 30% of my skills from it...

Exactly 30% or was it maybe 34%? How was this measured?

and it's friendly and giving members in past nearly 8 years. but there is
something that I hate about it and that's replies like this!

Replies like this come with the territory

You didn't teach me anything but let me teach you something...

uh-oh... looks like this thread is about to make a major turn....

Always try to learn something and teach others,

This is usenet, chaff and seed with every question.

 

[Webcastmaker]

One of the things I hate about usenet is the whingeing that often happens
when a poster gets a comment that does not fit within that posters range of
accecpable comments.

here here...

 

[rf]

Webcastmaker wrote

[email protected] says...

here here...

Oi, you trying to be nice to me or something? ;-)

 

[rf]

Arash Dejkam wrote

big

Then what the heck is that "font-size" for in CSS ?!!

It is to change the size of the font for a particular reason, for example to
make a certain peice of text slightly bigger (as happens by default for Hx
elements) or to (rarely) make the size a bit smaller, like for instance in
some "fineprint" copyright information at the bottom of a page that isn't
supposed to be read anyway.

Font size is *NOT* there so you can make your entire page content 80%
smaller than what your viewer is used to reading.

this is a website for God's sake not a plain text, I will put a special link
for you to download a .txt version, I think that would satisfy you.

That is just plain silly. font-size: 100% would satisfy me.

I have used an standard way to specify font size,

No you have not. You have specified the font to be 80% of what every viewer
in the world has set as their default.

I have checked that page
in 5 popular browsers and the text was readable and looked exactly the

same

At the risk of being repetative: "on your system".

(I don't think your eyes are worse than me 1.0 0.75 without glasses),

How do you know how good my eyesight is? How to you know what size my
monitors are or how many pixels there are on them or how big each pixel is?
You don't.

someone comes up and says it isn't, I ask what's the browser he is using to
find out what is the problem. I'm being bombarded by comments saying your
question is irrelevant.

Ok, for your information my operating system is XP professional, service
pack 1. My browsers are IE6, Mozilla 1.6 and opera 6 (I think). My monitors
are 19 inches diagonal. My desktop is (currently) 3200 by 1200 pixels. A
browser canvas that I have open is about 900 x 1100 pixels (your site). This
window I am typing in now is about 1000x800 pixels. My current view->text
size is largest (largely because I am looking at your site). My screens are
about 800 millimetres from my eyes, which are a bit crook so I wear long
sight correction glasses. IIRC my average correction ratio is 1.5 for the
right eye and 1.8 for the left eye. The glasses are graduated so as to
correct my relaxed focus point to 300mm at the bottom of the lens (the bit I
use to look at the keyboard (when I do)) and 1000mm at the top of the lens.
Currently I am looking at the bit that is about 5mm down from the top of the
lens. I can see what I am typing here quite clearly because I have upped the
font size on OE. I can see your site quite clearly because I have chosen to
ignore your font size entirely and use my own. I rarely have to squint at
the start bar because I know where I have put everything.

Now, do any of these facts or figures help you as a web author in any way to
decide what size font *you* think *I* might like to use when visiting a web
site?

You guessed wrong. My preferred and default font size is 120%. Your site
fails to provide this.

I can't do anything but laugh at this funny discussion.

It's not funny. It's deadly bloody serious. If people can not see your site
they go away. You will loose clients.

 

[Arash Dejkam]

If you had simply set font size at 100%, or left it out completely, then the
font would have been exactly what I *like* to view. If 100% looks too big on
*your* system then adjust *your* settings.

Then what the heck is that "font-size" for in CSS ?!!
this is a website for God's sake not a plain text, I will put a special link
for you to download a .txt version, I think that would satisfy you.
I have used an standard way to specify font size, I have checked that page
in 5 popular browsers and the text was readable and looked exactly the same
(I don't think your eyes are worse than me 1.0 0.75 without glasses),
someone comes up and says it isn't, I ask what's the browser he is using to
find out what is the problem. I'm being bombarded by comments saying your
question is irrelevant.
I can't do anything but laugh at this funny discussion.

Arash

 

[Arash Dejkam]

OK, I captured some shots of my screen. take a look (gif 32colors for
compression) I just want you to see the font-size.
http://portfolio.dejkam.com/captures.gif
, as you see my page looks exactly the same in three browsers also two other
captures shows that CNet uses exactly the same font and font-size and BBC
uses something close, I don't mean these are ideal websites but at least it
shows that this font size is not something extraordinary.

It is to change the size of the font for a particular reason

It definitely has a reason and that is I want the visitor to have a big
image of all
my skills in mind, so I made the font smaller to make the page more compact.

My monitors
are 19 inches diagonal. My desktop is (currently) 3200 by 1200 pixels.

Well, 1600x1200 is considered too high resolution for a 19" monitor, you
can't
set the resolution of a 14" monitor to 8000x6000 and complaint about fonts
being too small. actually you MUST set your font size @ 120% because your
monitor
has a high resolution/size ratio.

You guessed wrong. My preferred and default font size is 120%. Your site
fails to provide this.

I didn't need to guess anything. When I design a website I always have
in mind that every visitor may have set different preferences, I design
the way I like the visitor to see my page but at the same time give him the
choice to change things, If I didn't want him to do so I could easily set
the
font-size in pixels.
Even if you are not satisfied with just changing the font size then my page
is a well
formed and valid XHTML, easily unlink the CSS (Opera allows that) and apply
whatever style you want and have fun!

Arash

 

[Arash Dejkam]

By the way, I didn't need YOUR browser info but spartanicus's, the
screenshot he posted has extraordinarily small fonts, that is considered a
problem for me:
http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/test/arash.png

 

[Toby Inkster]

Really!? what browser are you using on which OS? I'm using x-small as font
size in CSS and is large enough in many browsers that I checked my page with
them.

Well, x-small is... errr... extra small. Why are you surprised that this
is too small for many people. Use medium like a non-silly person.

 

[Toby Inkster]

I have used an standard way to specify font size, I have checked that page
in 5 popular browsers and the text was readable and looked exactly the same

The browsers you tested it in are pretty irrelevant -- much more important
are:

- the screen resolution;
- the physical screen size;
- how far the user's head is away from the screen;
- how good the lighting conditions are in the room; and
- how good the visitor's eyes are.

You may be able to use a little Javascript to detect the first one, but it
will be a cold day in hell before you'll be able to use Javascript to
detect whether the visitor has his curtains open.

So set a sensible font size: "medium" for most text, "large" and above for
headings, and reserve "small" and below only for the "fine print"
(copyright notices, etc).

 

[Webcastmaker]

Then what the heck is that "font-size" for in CSS ?!!

For setting the "percent" different in size. normal text = 100%
bigger text is 125% smaller is 75% Kinda like that.

this is a website for God's sake not a plain text, I will put a special link
for you to download a .txt version, I think that would satisfy you.

That's not it at all. You are getting upset for the wrong reason.
go to my site in the sig. Change the size of the font, the page
still remains (more or less) the same even though the font size
changed. If you specify 12px as a size, then I have to take the time
to change my browser settings to abominate your site.

If making some of your users do that is not an issue to you, then we
have no problem here.

I can't do anything but laugh at this funny discussion.

We are the ones doing the laughing though....

 

[rf]

OK, I captured some shots of my screen. take a look (gif 32colors for
compression) I just want you to see the font-size.
http://portfolio.dejkam.com/captures.gif

Now hear this:

You have provided screen shots. I view them on *my* system. They look
exactly the same *on my system* as your web page does. Why? Beause *my
settings are different to yours*.

Don't you get it?

It might look good *to you* on *your system*. It does NOT look good to *me*
on *my system*, either the site or those gifs.

In the case of a gif I can not increase the font size unless I fire up opera
and then that will stuff up the text anyway. The gifs are unreadable to me
and unusable

Well, 1600x1200 is considered too high resolution for a 19" monitor, you

Considered by whom. Cite your reference.

set the resolution of a 14" monitor to 8000x6000

No you cant because the hardware does not yet support that. But, in time, it
will.

actually you MUST set your font size @ 120% because your
monitor
has a high resolution/size ratio.

So bloody what. That is *my* choice and one I exercise. When I come across
your site I have to up my font size to 160% to compensate for your stupidly
small fonts.

I didn't need to guess anything. When I design a website I always have
in mind that every visitor may have set different preferences, I design
the way I like the visitor to see my page

No, you don't. You have repeatedly stated *on my system*. You are designing
that site to suit you, on your system.
And why should you design your site the way *you* like the visitor to see
it. You should be designing the site the way your *visitor* likes to see it,
that is at 100%.

but at the same time give him the
choice to change things,

So why set the font size stupidly small in the first place if you are quite
aware that the viewer will change it anyway. Why not just let it default TO
WHAT YOUR VISITOR ALREADY HAS CHOSEN.



Aaaarrrrghh. I give up.

At least I will never have to view the page again so it no longer matters to
me.

 

[Arash Dejkam]

So why set the font size stupidly small in the first place if you are quite
aware that the viewer will change it anyway.

Well! because I am a stupid guy! (go on say it) like the designers of CNet
and BBC!
I told you why I made the font smaller but seems you dismissed that
paragraph.

I give up too, maybe we can have a better conversation later about my
websites with larger
fonts (in which small font is not necessary like in this one)

sincerely,
Arash