Discussion in 'Java' started by Roedy Green, May 17, 2004.

  1. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    I have been highly annoyed at the way HTML forms have taken over data
    entry. How inept!, not telling until you finished page about your
    errors, then erasing half your data and making you start again!

    Phooey. I have heard XFORMS is supposed to make it a tiny bit better.

    Does anyone know which browsers support XFORMS?
    Roedy Green, May 17, 2004
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  2. Roedy Green

    Sudsy Guest

    Take a chill pill, man! The browser environment is not the same as an
    application environment. While JavaScript can permit the validation of
    field data as you enter it, many people turn it off. And a well-designed
    form framework won't lose previously entered data.
    Struts addresses both of these issues with the validator. It can even
    generate JavaScript to validate fields before submission to the server.
    So check out what can be achieved today rather than seeking the "latest
    and greatest" new thingy. I don't know about you but I don't like being
    on the "bleeding edge"...too painful!
    Sudsy, May 17, 2004
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  3. On Mon, 17 May 2004 06:50:38 -0400, Sudsy wrote:

    (form validation)
    That's handy. I keep looking at my
    own pages thinking how they could
    be improved with a bit (here and
    everywhere) of DHTML that degrades
    gracefully. JS is also great for
    instant form validation.
    Andrew Thompson, May 17, 2004
  4. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    I get angry about his because we had better data validation on the
    Apple ][ with version 1 of Abundance than you get today. Forms has
    been such a giant step backwards in data entry.

    Even keypunches were smarter.
    Roedy Green, May 17, 2004
  5. Roedy Green

    Virgil Green Guest

    While I willingly work in it, I dislike the entire browser paradigm of data
    entry. I like to refer to it as 1960s technology. I've always believed that
    as the developer gained greater control over the UI (via GUIs) that they
    also had a greater responsibility to communicate to the user. When we had
    screen/record-level control, we provided screen/record-level responses.
    Since we've achieved keystroke-level control, we should provide responses at
    the same level. The UIs state should change as needed (can't hit Submit
    until the data is valid) within the practical limits imposed by performance
    requirements. The whole FORM-based entry irritates me, especially coupled
    with stateless transactions -- 1960s technology.

    Javascript and/or DHTML can provide some level of keystroke-level response,
    but javascript can be turned off and you still have to write all the
    validation at the backend *as well* because the data stream between the
    client and the host is easily faked and the host should never rely upon
    validation that was done at the client.

    - Virgil
    Virgil Green, May 17, 2004
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