Help Request about 4.01 Strict

[Ed Mulroy]

... If you do this one simple thing, you will see it happen: Put the

list first in the HTML ...

There is a reason I want it last. For search engine indexing I want
page-specific content to come first in the file. The menu is unchanged
throughout most pages in that section of my site.

... The pint of thgis pleasant rave (I always like to start the
day with one) is this: you are doing something more than
being gracious ...

Ok, courteous, giving the courtesy of replying to someone who was gracious
enough to help me.

I do not agree that bottom posting is "correct". Sure, there are those who
use usenet (pun intended) to dictate how we will do things. They tell who
among us is bad and enjoy their rule. You can read their stuff all over as
"rules" for doing this or that on the Internet, rules created by
self-appointed folks who were there early enough that what they posted went
unchallenged at the time. If that is why you want bottom posting then it is
unfortunate that those self-appointed rulers have influenced you. If you
want it because you like it better, then ok, that I understand.

.. Ed

 

[dorayme]

With all of that nobody but you has ever objected to my signature.

.... what about the top posting? Has anyone protested in 20 years?
I am interested in the inertia of earthlings. Many people sit and
suffer. The other day, a feller came along and stole the roofs of
all the houses. I was the only one to complain.

Reminds me of a joke:

Firing squad, Captain approaches the two men to be shot and
offers blindfolds. One man screams at the officer, "Never mind
the blindfold, you should not be shooting us like this already,
it is an absolute travesty of all justice, look at Geneva
Convention number..."

He is interrupted by his partner who jabs him with an elbow:

"Sssh Moshe, don't make trouble!"

 

[dorayme]

... If you do this one simple thing, you will see it happen: Put the
list first in the HTML ...

There is a reason I want it last. For search engine indexing I want
page-specific content to come first in the file. The menu is unchanged
throughout most pages in that section of my site.
[/QUOTE]

In that case, there is another route and it involves absolute
positioning. This will be tricky for you. It is tricky for most.

I do not agree that bottom posting is "correct". Sure, there are those who
use usenet (pun intended) to dictate how we will do things. They tell who
among us is bad and enjoy their rule. You can read their stuff all over as
"rules" for doing this or that on the Internet, rules created by
self-appointed folks who were there early enough that what they posted went
unchallenged at the time.

Yes, I understand and sympathise

If that is why you want bottom posting then it is
unfortunate that those self-appointed rulers have influenced you. If you
want it because you like it better, then ok, that I understand.

It is quite amazing how you miss the third possibility given I
outlined it: namely that there are good reasons to bottom post.
Do you "like" scrolling down to find out what someone is replying
to when it is not crystal clear? It is not a matter of what this
Tom, Dick or Harry likes or does not like. Who rules or does not
rule [1].

It is a matter of the convenience of it for folks on the whole.
It is an objective matter, not something to do with opinion
polls. You could conduct a test to see which format would get the
best answers to questions. It has more objective advantages than
top posting.

[1] Who rules is a settled question. It is Spartanicus.

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

I have been messaging over computer networks posting many messages daily for
more than 20 years except for one stretch of three weeks and seven
individual days. All messages are done in the same way (with the exception
of twice when I bottom posted as a courtesy to you and to one other man on
here). With all of that nobody but you has ever objected to my signature.


As far as I know none of Tapcis, Outlook Express or XanaNews looks for or
does anything with a pair of dashes.

Ah, yes real ones do! I don't ever use OE, and IE only for development
testing, but I understand there are ways to help make it quote
properly, it has been stated in this NG many times.

The header to your message suggests
that you are using an AOL based reader - glass houses and stones Johathan.

Well I guess it is another thing you are not good at, AOL yeah right!
Look again:

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.8.0.4)
Gecko/20060516 SeaMonkey/1.0.2

 

[Ed Mulroy]

... what about the top posting? Has anyone protested

in 20 years?...

It is actually much more than 20 years. Yes, two last year and three or
four this year (not including the current thread in this group).
Considering that there are thousands of my posts that is not many.

.. Ed

 

[Ed Mulroy]

... I understand there are ways to help make it quote properly, it has

been stated in this NG many times...

Not that I have seen. You don't have to make it quote properly. It already
does that. As I said before, bottom posting is more difficult for the
reader. That is why I don't do it other than here for you and Dorayme. For
some reason you (plural you) like bottom posting and you've helped me so
sure, I am doing it to be courteous.

Well I guess it is another thing you are not good at, AOL yeah right! Look
again:

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.8.0.4)
Gecko/20060516 SeaMonkey/1.0.2

I think if you check you will find that is a fork off of AOL code.

.. Ed

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

As I said before, bottom posting is more difficult for the
reader.

It is not more difficult than top-posting. Surely you realize that
almost everyone else in this group is not top-posting, save a few real
newbies and those googlegroupers.

And to reiterate, inline-posting-with-careful-trimming is what is best.

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

Not that I have seen. You don't have to make it quote properly. It already
does that. As I said before, bottom posting is more difficult for the
reader. That is why I don't do it other than here for you and Dorayme. For
some reason you (plural you) like bottom posting and you've helped me so
sure, I am doing it to be courteous.

I'll let Blinky or one of the others fight this fight, it is not worth
the aggravation.

I think if you check you will find that is a fork off of AOL code.

Not it is not, AOL uses some POS modified IE for years now, I am using a
Gecko browser. AOL has never used the Gecko engine except for their MAC
OSX version. Mozillia.org split from Netscape and AOL coming on a decade
soon.

BTW there is a way to have your menu markup below your content and still
display to the left of the content. Involves positioning, but it not
done properly is a real f'up. Good luck!

 

[dorayme]

As I said before, bottom posting is more difficult for the
reader. That is why I don't do it other than here for you and Dorayme. For
some reason you (plural you) like bottom posting and you've helped me so
sure, I am doing it to be courteous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting where there are some
pros and cons considered.

I doubt if "it is more difficult for the reader" if it is
combined with trimming.

You can't have everything in this world. If you must top post
then make it quite clear who or what you are replying to. Will
you bother to pay the price?[1]

You might then come around to thinking that it is easier to trim
existing reply and bottom or inline post (inline is the bit you
are responding to, your response, another bit, your response
etc...)

[1] It is utterly typical of those who top post to not make it
clear what they are responding to, thus making the reader work
harder.

 

[Wÿrm]

bottom posting is more difficult for the reader.

I have to disagree with this

Top posting is annoying, some of us might read hundreds posts a day and
reply some. If it's top post, one must scroll down and see what it was about
before even replying. Especially this get annoying if post is not properly
snipped and is long.

Bottom posting is slightly less annoying, but it has it's problems also.
Especially on long post if you are gonna reply on several points..

That's why I keep using inline posting and snip away texts that I am not
replying into etc. Sometimes leaving more text depending situation. This way
there's quote of the text I am replying straight up from my reply. Easy,
fast to see on what I had replied to etc.

Have you considered about possibility people might not even respond because
they might be annoyed by the top posting? In my case, I answer top posting,
but I might mark thread up, wait a bit and go on answering other messages
instead and some point later if there's no reply from others. Then I might
answer when I have time...

So in all, I prefer people posting inline. I think I must be getting old
because I don't bother nag about posting "proper" way, each for their own.
Just that I might put off a while my answer, depending way people post

 

[Mark Parnell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Ed Mulroy

Not that I have seen.

I posted the link when I initially asked you to stop top posting.
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

[Mozilla]

I think if you check you will find that is a fork off of AOL code.

LOL

Netscape (Mozilla's forerunner) was released as open source about a year
before Netscape Corporation was bought out by AOL. For a while AOL had
staff working on Mozilla, but it was never their code in the first
place.

 

[Ed Mulroy]

Not it is not, AOL uses some POS modified IE for years now...

AOL's program that they provide if you sign up for AOL is as you describe.
That is Internet Explorer custom modified for the by Microsoft. From news
reports they had it updated to IE 6 levels. I challenge your
characterisation of IE as a "POS". All browsers have bugs. IE does a
credible job for a massive percent of those browsing the Internet.

However that is not what I was speaking about. I was speaking the code upon
Mozilla is based. It is a fork of code from AOL's Netscape division.

.. Ed

 

[Ed Mulroy]

I posted the link when I initially asked you to stop top posting.

http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

Yes, that does not fix OE, it breaks it.

...Netscape (Mozilla's forerunner) was released as open
source...

It didn't go very far until AOL started working on it. Afterwards it forked
into many different products, some of which are open source.

.. Ed

Mark Parnell wrote in message

Not that I have seen.

I posted the link when I initially asked you to stop top posting.
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

[Mozilla]

I think if you check you will find that is a fork off of AOL code.

LOL

Netscape (Mozilla's forerunner) was released as open
source about a year before Netscape Corporation was
bought out by AOL. For a while AOL had staff working on
Mozilla, but it was never their code in the first place.

 

[Ed Mulroy]

Top posting is annoying, some of us might read hundreds

posts a day and reply some. If it's top post, one must scroll
down and see what it was about before even replying ...

I read at least hundreds of posts a day, every day. Some are bottom posted.
Most are top posted or with quotes and replies interleaved. When
interleaved the better ones quote essentially the whole message begin
replied to at the bottom (as I have done here). The top posted messages are
easier to deal with than the bottom posted ones.

The messages in the news reader are threaded. You already know what the
quote at the bottom is because you see what is above. You do not have to
PgDn to see what is in this message. If you have already read the thread up
to this message and the subject line does not refresh your memory then you
can look at what is quoted at the bottom.

.. Ed

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

The messages in the news reader are threaded.

You do know that many news readers have the ability to "Hide Read
Messages" don't you? Saves you from having to scroll (in the headings
pane) through all those you already read.

You already know what the quote at the bottom is because you see what
is above.

Now you are assuming the previous message made it to everyone's news
server. And you're also assuming that everyone will remember what they
read yesterday or earlier. That's difficult when you read hundreds of
threads and posts.

 

[Ed Mulroy]

... Now you are assuming the previous message made

it to everyone's news server...

I assume that they are using a reliable news server. If not then the
problem is the server and not the message formatting.

... That's difficult when you read hundreds of
threads and posts.

I do that daily and have not found it to be a problem.

.. Ed

 

[Mark Parnell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Ed Mulroy

I assume that they are using a reliable news server. If not then the
problem is the server and not the message formatting.

That still doesn't address Beauregard's point about many newsreaders
hiding read messages. Or other similar situations such as someone
replying to another poster who is killfiled.

I do that daily and have not found it to be a problem.

Then you have a better memory than most of us.

 

[Neredbojias]

To further the education of mankind, "Ed Mulroy"

I
challenge your characterisation of IE as a "POS". All browsers have
bugs. IE does a credible job for a massive percent of those browsing
the Internet.

If web page authors weren't constantly compensating for IE's deficiencies,
I'm sure it wouldn't seem that way. But the sad part is M$ deliberately
let it remain so for around 6 years.

 

[Neredbojias]

To further the education of mankind, "Wÿrm"

So in all, I prefer people posting inline. I think I must be getting
old because I don't bother nag about posting "proper" way, each for
their own. Just that I might put off a while my answer, depending way
people post

Well, you sound kind of old although Jukka crabs all the time...

 

[Dan]

I read at least hundreds of posts a day, every day. Some are bottom posted.
Most are top posted or with quotes and replies interleaved. When
interleaved the better ones quote essentially the whole message begin
replied to at the bottom (as I have done here).

s/better/stupider/

That's the style I call "double-quoting", which is used by people too
wishy-washy to make a firm commitment to either top- or
interleaved-post.

http://mailformat.dan.info/quoting/top-posting.html